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Random stupid things on your mind. Post them.

Started by timpate, September 20, 2010, 07:56:24 PM

Silent

I'm tired of reading news articles, written by supposed professionals, which use quotes from Facebook, Twitter, forums, and other anonymous comments around the internet.  Have you ever been reading an article on a serious topic and suddenly the journalist thought it was important to let you you know what Bigballzbilly009 thought about the subject?  WTF?

Frys Girl

Quote from: Treading Water on August 17, 2011, 05:34:04 PM
Not just soap.  16 ounce cans are now 14 ounces.  Look at the bottom of one of those big pop bottles. 
Yes, they do think we are dumb.
Tampons. Tylenol. The list goes on. I think that the riots will break out when they start doing it with nicotine products.

MV/Liberace!

been watching "the first 48" where they track homicide detectives in the 48 hour period following the report of a homicide.  one thing is clear from watching this show:  DON'T TALK TO THE POLICE, DUMMY!!!  holy SHIT i can't believe how dumb some of these people are and how easily the police can fool them into implicating themselves in a MURDER!!!  everyone should watch this:


Dont Talk to Police

Frys Girl

Michael, that is very wise advice. Unfortunately, human nature and emotion ruins good decisions. A few years ago, I got a BS ticket for turning left on yellow in Virginia. It's BS because it's common practice in the district of criminals (DC) and the red light hit after i was more than half way through my turn. Jerk cop chief wiggum. Anyway. Why do they always ask you "where are you goin, Miss?" LOL I was going to the gym and I said so. When I went to court to fight the ticket, that idiot cop showed up and said "She said she was going to the gym." LMAO. Traffic court is such a scam.

MV/Liberace!

on the first 48, during the suspect interviews, the detectives ALWAYS say, "look.  i'm going to give you this one opportunity.  don't mess up this chance i'm giving you."  uhh... chance for what?  opportunity to do what?  put yourself in jail?  jesus is that funny.


i'm not particularly fond of police officers.  sorry.  in the dealings i've had with them, they've been nothing but lazy and useless.



the cops are not your friend, and the illiterate morons on this show don't seem to get that.

Quote from: Frys Girl on August 19, 2011, 04:15:15 PM
Michael, that is very wise advice. Unfortunately, human nature and emotion ruins good decisions. A few years ago, I got a BS ticket for turning left on yellow in Virginia. It's BS because it's common practice in the district of criminals (DC) and the red light hit after i was more than half way through my turn. Jerk cop chief wiggum. Anyway. Why do they always ask you "where are you goin, Miss?" LOL I was going to the gym and I said so. When I went to court to fight the ticket, that idiot cop showed up and said "She said she was going to the gym." LMAO. Traffic court is such a scam.

Michael's right about the idiots on that show. Surprised your cop showed up just to say that in court!  I think they usually open up with small talk questions just to get a read on you.  "I'm going to the gym, officer" in police-speak translates as "I'm going to the gym, officer" most of the time, without sounding evasive or using too much detail.  I always found it hilarious when someone responds to that question with "I dunno, man."  Granted, you don't have to answer, but you don't know where you're going?  That translates as "Every square inch of seating in my car may be stuffed with heroin."

Quote from: Michael Vandeven on August 19, 2011, 05:55:45 PM

i'm not particularly fond of police officers.  sorry.  in the dealings i've had with them, they've been nothing but lazy and useless.

the cops are not your friend, and the illiterate morons on this show don't seem to get that.

The lazy cops are beyond frustrating, and I share your disdain for that subgroup.  Sad for them, even.  Laziness in a hot sector can very quickly turn to dead.


Camper

I occasionally watch the reality show Cops on TV. Invariably you will hear the cop tell the suspect some form of "just tell me the truth or things will go bad for you."  Yeah right... Never trust a cop and keep your mouth shut.

I'm 55 yrs old  and forget how many times I've been arrested. I've been to jail in four states and have two felony convictions for possesion of marijuana. I was kind of wild when I was younger to say the least.

Frys Girl

While I was driving home tonight, I saw two cops on shift in a car together. I knew they were on shift because they had their lights on (not in pursuit, just on so that the public and criminals are aware of them). At the red light, they were next to me. I looked down from the SUV I was driving to see that the DRIVER of the car was lighting up a CIGAR. In this city, you get a 100 dollar ticket for talking on a cell phone. I hate the cops, too. They are such a disappointment. Sorry if you're law enforcement here. There was one user here previously who was law enforcement, so no offense to you if you are reading this. They exhibit laziness too often and they don't exhibit bravery or hard work often enough. I guess that happens in jobs where you are guaranteed 80% salary pension AND it is impossible to get fired.

Frys Girl

Quote from: Flaxen Hegemony on August 19, 2011, 06:02:23 PM
"Every square inch of seating in my car may be stuffed with heroin."
LOL! I see. Thanks for the information. I guess I just hate they manner in which they ask me. Once I said "Subway" and I felt like such a loser lol.

Quote from: Frys Girl on August 19, 2011, 07:40:24 PM
LOL! I see. Thanks for the information. I guess I just hate they manner in which they ask me. Once I said "Subway" and I felt like such a loser lol.

SUBWAY?  Jesus, they'd probably let the drug runner go, call for backup, and throw down tire strips a few miles up from you!

I've had the full range of interactions with LE over the years, but have a neutral attitude toward them as individuals.  There will be idiots, slackers, and crooks in any job.  At the end of the day, it is a job, and people have to do it.  Bad seeds aside, they're neither heroes nor villians, just sometimes enforcers of rules that don't comport with our own views.



Frys Girl

I just realized that this person who has been leaving annoying comments on my youtube channel is a teenager. I kind of regret my responses to her now, but not really. She's such a bitch for a 17 year old. Hopefully, I will have a positive effect on her.

Eddie Coyle


Avi

I think there are certain types of personalities drawn to certain professions. The classic is that therapists are a little tweaked and are really working through their own issues. Cops and nurses, oddly enough, tend to be described, politely, as authoritarian - but impolitely, as failed brownshirts and kapos. Doctors are narcissists, when you get down to it - probably why they voted the narcissist diagnosis out of the DSM.

Too, all of these professions have their own 'cultures,' so if you are a fish out of water, you'll take abuse from your colleagues as long as you last in the job, if they can't turn you. I would suspect that much of their trickery and bullying comes from an environment where it was used against them, not that this excuses them in any way.

Quote from: Avi on August 19, 2011, 11:19:04 PM
I think there are certain types of personalities drawn to certain professions. The classic is that therapists are a little tweaked and are really working through their own issues. Cops and nurses, oddly enough, tend to be described, politely, as authoritarian - but impolitely, as failed brownshirts and kapos. Doctors are narcissists, when you get down to it - probably why they voted the narcissist diagnosis out of the DSM.

Nice set of examples.  But is it chicken or egg?  A profession may appeal to a personality type, or a personality type may be an adaptive trait among those in a profession.  I suppose it probably works both ways, but in different, er, ways.  We call the latter "stereotyping" or "prejudice", but have no common label for the former.  We may agree or disagree, but wouldn't blink if someone said: "Your brother is a cop?  Can't stand those aggressive types.", because they are making a judgment about a trait they believe likely to be held in common among members of a profession.  But saying "Your brother is aggressive?  Can't stand those cops." wouldn't sound right to our ears, because the other direction isn't as strongly implied in our society (e.g., we don't condemn aggressive children to a life of perpetual security or LE jobs).

Thanks for the thought-provoking comments.  I may have babbled a bit there.  It happens.  :)

onan

I was going to write a response attempting to argue positively for police. I do believe that many, probably a majority of, police are good people, trying to do a good job.

But I just stumbled onto a program on showtime called "the green room". A comedy show with different comedians in an extemporaneous panel. This episode had Tommy Chong. His story explains he was busted and did time in prison for selling bongs. I won't go into all the detail, but bongs? Swat came to Tommy Chong's house for bongs. They came with helicopters. Something is wrong.

Avi, there is a popular conjecture that the mindset of a police officer and a criminal are similar. That is a very difficult premise to define. Particularly due to so many different screenings (if they even exist is some localities) for police officers. But in larger cities traits such as undue auspiciousness, anxiety, sexual concerns, depression, phobic personality, drugs and/or alcohol, family conflicts, guardedness, rigid thinking, loner personalities, antisocial attitudes, and hyperactivity are dis-qualifiers. Most of those traits are common in a (true) criminal profile.

But any attempt to qualify the human experiences will always fall short. And no doubt camaraderie can become cronyism.

As to doctors being narcissistic and nurses being failed brownshirts, I would have a tough time arguing against that and also saying I was being honest. That being said, those professions are licensed and those with the licenses answer to a governing board that is (at least in nursing) more than likely to yank your license and livelihood upon an accusation. So it does become a rather strident group. Sometimes pathologically so.

Back to cops. What a tough place to be in. All that supposed authority except for all the complaints that have to be investigated. All the insults for doing a job that more than likely the cop isn't interested in doing. And anytime any of us gets a ticket it is because the cop saw it wrong. But yeah cops at least some of the times probably become so enmeshed in the shit that pretty soon everyone is a bad guy to them. Oh yeah did you hear about Tommy Chong?

Avi

Quote from: Flaxen Hegemony on August 20, 2011, 12:09:20 AM
Nice set of examples.  But is it chicken or egg?  A profession may appeal to a personality type, or a personality type may be an adaptive trait among those in a profession.  I suppose it probably works both ways, but in different, er, ways.  We call the latter "stereotyping" or "prejudice", but have no common label for the former.  We may agree or disagree, but wouldn't blink if someone said: "Your brother is a cop?  Can't stand those aggressive types.", because they are making a judgment about a trait they believe likely to be held in common among members of a profession.  But saying "Your brother is aggressive?  Can't stand those cops." wouldn't sound right to our ears, because the other direction isn't as strongly implied in our society (e.g., we don't condemn aggressive children to a life of perpetual security or LE jobs).

Thanks for the thought-provoking comments.  I may have babbled a bit there.  It happens.  :)

Hmm. Your words, "Your brother is a cop?  Can't stand those aggressive types," seems wrong to me, because I find cops not to be particularly aggressive.  They admire and fear aggression, probably something they were taught to to do from a distance, but cannot allow themselves free reign. I do not think this is a prejudice, but an actual experience. Most cops seem very concerned for their status, but they are not able, under the law, to enforce the status to which they believe they are entitled. It's more about people who cannot rise above the baboon nature.

Eddie Coyle


    From my numerous experiences...

     City cops run the gamut from overly aggressive detectives/detectives in making(gang squad, drug unit being particularly strident) to the "beat" patrolman, who tends to have a bit more of a realistic perspective and will provide a bit of leeway...if you're not combative toward them. The attitude of "I'm giving you guys 5 minutes to get out of this park and lose what you're holding...if you're still here when I get back, you're busted".

  State Troopers...PRICKS. Almost every last one of them-. There is a sign on the wall at a local barracks(out of the public's view) that has this credo.
  "There are good assholes, there are bad assholes, and there are troopers". So many of them are ex-military and often not far removed from their service, that it's practically a violation of The Posse Comitatus Act. They are more like a soldier than a peace officer

Avi

Quote from: onan on August 20, 2011, 12:22:29 AM
Avi, there is a popular conjecture that the mindset of a police officer and a criminal are similar. That is a very difficult premise to define. Particularly due to so many different screenings (if they even exist is some localities) for police officers. But in larger cities traits such as undue auspiciousness, anxiety, sexual concerns, depression, phobic personality, drugs and/or alcohol, family conflicts, guardedness, rigid thinking, loner personalities, antisocial attitudes, and hyperactivity are dis-qualifiers. Most of those traits are common in a (true) criminal profile.

Hmm. A very interesting and likely proposition. Of course, the problem with psychological screening of entrants to various professions is, who will screen the screeners? Of course, it is also difficult to suss out when people are just telling you what you want to hear. We all like to believe that we can't be easily fooled, but I suspect much of our behavior is not really subject to conscious decision-making. If a potential nurse or cop appeals to us, we may not be able to interpret correctly what they say.

Dan Ariely asks, Are we in control of our decisions?

Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 02:00:15 AM
Hmm. Your words, "Your brother is a cop?  Can't stand those aggressive types," seems wrong to me, because I find cops not to be particularly aggressive.  They admire and fear aggression, probably something they were taught to to do from a distance, but cannot allow themselves free reign. I do not think this is a prejudice, but an actual experience. Most cops seem very concerned for their status, but they are not able, under the law, to enforce the status to which they believe they are entitled. It's more about people who cannot rise above the baboon nature.

I just used the word "aggressive" as filler for the sentence, not suggesting any particular truth to it, only that it wouldn't sound odd to our ears.  I could just as well have said "Your brother is a cop?  I bet he admires and fears aggression, and is concerned for his status."  ;)

The general sentiment in onan's follow-up nicely subsumes my own attitude toward LE.  Eddie raises a good point as well concerning ex-military.  It may be very difficult to translate the "us/them" aspect of military service, much less actual combat, to what is essentially an "us/us" situation in LE.




Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
Hmm. A very interesting and likely proposition. Of course, the problem with psychological screening of entrants to various professions is, who will screen the screeners? Of course, it is also difficult to suss out when people are just telling you what you want to hear. We all like to believe that we can't be easily fooled, but I suspect much of our behavior is not really subject to conscious decision-making. If a potential nurse or cop appeals to us, we may not be able to interpret correctly what they say.

Another interesting post, Avi.

You're absolutely correct, and that's why there are layers of psychological tools in place to handle screening.  Sorry to geek out for a moment here, but a few of my past consulting gigs involved validating these kinds of screening procedures.  Typically, a person only makes the decision based on judgment in edge cases or grey areas, and even then, not without the involvement of many other experts.  For better or worse, it often comes down to a score on a survey and a cutoff score.  If the person exceeds it, they are red flagged and go no further. 

I say for better or worse because the "worse" part of it gets to your second point.  It used to be that the type of people you mention could often sneak through by "faking" a certain personality profile.  Sure enough, the solution isn't guessing, but developing questions and tests of faking itself.  Usually, these questions are sprinkled in amongst the others so as not to raise suspicion.  So if someone sets off the "faking" red flag, yet passes the test of maladjustment or whatever, the negative result is often tossed out.  Of course, the really tricky ones can fake on the test of faking itself, but it isn't common.

You're right, appeal has a lot to do with it, too.  We once had a theory in school that success in virtually any career came down to four things:

Physical Attractiveness
Conscientiousness (NEO-PI)
Intelligence (cognitive ability test) 
Emotional Stability

Avi

Quote from: Flaxen Hegemony on August 20, 2011, 03:50:55 PM
I just used the word "aggressive" as filler for the sentence, not suggesting any particular truth to it, only that it wouldn't sound odd to our ears.  I could just as well have said "Your brother is a cop?  I bet he admires and fears aggression, and is concerned for his status."  ;)

Yes, of course (I was just blathering drunkenly my own impression of police). Professions that have hazing rituals, whether overt or covert, as an entry requirement are often problematic. There is no single, one-size-fits-all, black and white answer to the question. For example, it could be argued that authoritarian personality types are properly able to channel their aggression in the structured environment of the military or of the police. Yet, on the other hand, Sapolsky, et al, shows pretty clearly that a hazing, bullying, top-down sort of environment is detrimental to human health (how many cops do you see with that cortisol, stress-hormone belly-fat? It's probably not the fabled donuts). There is a nursing shortage, in part, because half of all newly trained nurses leave the profession within 2 years, never to return, citing bullying by colleagues as the reason. Suicide and chemical dependency among physicians and police is rampant. Even so, some argue that the us/them mentality is a necessity to unit cohesion, and that hazing contributes to that cohesion or makes a better, more decisive doctor or nurse.

My own opinion is that we are not rational actors, no matter how much we may prize rationality.

BTW, what sort of flaxen state should be a hegemon and why?

onan

Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
Hmm. A very interesting and likely proposition. Of course, the problem with psychological screening of entrants to various professions is, who will screen the screeners? Of course, it is also difficult to suss out when people are just telling you what you want to hear. We all like to believe that we can't be easily fooled, but I suspect much of our behavior is not really subject to conscious decision-making. If a potential nurse or cop appeals to us, we may not be able to interpret correctly what they say.

Dan Ariely asks, Are we in control of our decisions?

I think your point is valid but at what point do we sacrifice pragmatics? If we second guess those we trust, we are mired in confusion. There are no halos to be worn. And yes the actual thinking process is more than suspected. But hasn't that been true in some form or other for a long time? I am willing at some point to trust in a system because the alternative is chaos.

Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 04:46:50 PM
Yes, of course (I was just blathering drunkenly my own impression of police). Professions that have hazing rituals, whether overt or covert, as an entry requirement are often problematic. There is no single, one-size-fits-all, black and white answer to the question. For example, it could be argued that authoritarian personality types are properly able to channel their aggression in the structured environment of the military or of the police. Yet, on the other hand, Sapolsky, et al, shows pretty clearly that a hazing, bullying, top-down sort of environment is detrimental to human health (how many cops do you see with that cortisol, stress-hormone belly-fat? It's probably not the fabled donuts). There is a nursing shortage, in part, because half of all newly trained nurses leave the profession within 2 years, never to return, citing bullying by colleagues as the reason. Suicide and chemical dependency among physicians and police is rampant. Even so, some argue that the us/them mentality is a necessity to unit cohesion, and that hazing contributes to that cohesion or makes a better, more decisive doctor or nurse.

Org theory was both one of my favorite classes, and at the same time, most depressing.  Top-down organizations wreak havoc on the health of the individual in them, and you're probably on to something with the "cortisol gut" thing. Yet if we think of the organization itself as an organism, top down heirarchies are often the most adaptive in hostile environments, where nimble decision making and rapid communication channels have an advantage.  As you note, a military org is the classic example of this.  As much as diversity and inclusion are valuable to society, we don't want a field commander asking front line soldiers how they "feel" about strategic-level decisions.

I always assumed that hazing creates cohesion through dissonance.  A fraternity initiate who is forced to juggle poop, balance on the roof of the sorority house while naked, and then drink beer until he vomits isn't going to look back on the experience and say "you know, I sure am an idiot for doing all that for a silly frat", but rather "wow, I did THAT?  I'm not stupid, so this must really be a worthwhile group." Getting someone to commit to a series of small things can be orders of magnitude more powerful than getting them to do one bigger thing. 

Quote
My own opinion is that we are not rational actors, no matter how much we may prize rationality.

Agreed.  Thanks for posting the Dan Ariely link, btw. Good stuff.




Avi

Quote from: onan on August 20, 2011, 05:14:37 PM
I think your point is valid but at what point do we sacrifice pragmatics? If we second guess those we trust, we are mired in confusion. There are no halos to be worn. And yes the actual thinking process is more than suspected. But hasn't that been true in some form or other for a long time? I am willing at some point to trust in a system because the alternative is chaos.

Suddenly, I have an overpowering urge to scream and light my hair on fire.

onan

Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 08:48:55 PM
Suddenly, I have an overpowering urge to scream and light my hair on fire.

Lets sell tickets first.

Eddie Coyle

Quote from: Avi on August 20, 2011, 08:48:55 PM
Suddenly, I have an overpowering urge to scream and light my hair on fire.

     Whilst filming a Pepsi commercial...

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