Grand Jury decision in "Gentle Giant" or "Thug" police killing made.

[DanTSX]

Is that Brown's friend who was with him when he robbed the convenience store? Sounds like a credible witness. Just saying is all.

Why isn't he credible?

[RealCool Daddio]

Is that Brown's friend who was with him when he robbed the convenience store? Sounds like a credible witness. Just saying is all.

Read his testimony, then read Wilson's.  Get back to me afterwards.


http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7281165/darren-wilsons-story-side

[zeebo]

You're right; there was never a question how the GJ would decide.

I think this does a disservice to them.  Sounds to me like they made quite a good faith effort poring over all the evidence.  You may not agree with the outcome, but that doesn't mean it was rigged.

[RealCool Daddio]

At that point he was protecting himself. 


And please don't ignore the mitigating circumstances leading up to that encounter......Its a much more clear picture than Treyvon and Zimmerman.

I have no issue with a person, private citizen or law enforcement, using appropriate force to defend themselves.  If their life is in danger, that would and should include deadly force.  I have seen the photos, and the report from the hospital staff who attended to Wilson.  I don't see any evidence that his life was endangered.


Shit, my teenage kid looks worse after a friendly hockey game than Wilson did.

[coaster]

Brown's family's attorney is an idiot. As is everyone who wants "justice" but fail to see the hypocrisy in not agreeing with the grand jury's decision. This whole thing is a joke.

[zeebo]

I have no issue with a person, private citizen or law enforcement, using appropriate force to defend themselves.  If their life is in danger, that would and should include deadly force.  I have seen the photos, and the report from the hospital staff who attended to Wilson.  I don't see any evidence that his life was endangered.

Yep he should have waited for the guy to grab his own gun from him, and then see if his life was in danger.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

I think this does a disservice to them.  Sounds to me like they made quite a good faith effort poring over all the evidence.  You may not agree with the outcome, but it doesn't mean it was rigged.

I've only gone through the first couple of volumes of the Grand Jury Transcripts so far, but it looks like their focus was always on thoroughness.

[jazmunda]

Why isn't he credible?

Accessories to crimes don't always make the most reliable witnesses.

[SciFiAuthor]

McCulloch has hidden personal agendas in this issue, and should have appointed a special prosecutor.  He released over one thousand pages of evidence to defend the decision, that does not need that amount of defense, if fair and impartial.  It looks to me like he had his moment in the limelight and basked in just as Michael Brown's life light has been extinguished.  Justice was not served.  However, that does not justify the looting. 

The value of Michael Brown's life under this structure and unfair, grandised  approach in Missouri is nada.  No justice, no value.  Officer Wilson should have been charged, and not allowed to walk free.  He took a life and he should have been punished, no ifs, or maybes

Before I start, Bob McCulloch is a Democrat. Rabidly so. I am rabidly anti-Democratic Party, I'd sooner vote for an open communist as the lesser of two evils. Just to establish that before I start.

You couldn't possibly be more wrong in your assessment of him. He's been elected bipartisanly and biracially in 1991, 1994, 1998, 2002, 2006, 2010 and 2014 and has never sought any other public office. He had every chance to do so in the 90's when he first had a moment in the sun when he prosecuted Axl Rose for starting a riot at a concert (which I was present at, and first learned that some people just like to fuck shit up and tear shit down and steal shit. They have no other motive). He could have used that to at least rise in state politics . . . but never chose to try it.

McCulloch is realistic for a shithole city. St. Louis fucking sucks across the board, and I say that from someone that was born there. It biracially fucking sucks, no matter who you are, and unlike most US cities which have generally improved since the 70's, St. Louis and the immediate area is still mostly in the gutter. Understand, there are parts of that shithole that you cannot go and expect to be ok. You can't just walk around North St. Louis. You will get mugged or carjacked. I urge you to go there and get carjacked, so you'll realize what you're really dealing with here instead of the media's narrative.

Or just watch this video. It's a pro-Palestinian agitator named Bassem Masri who was live streaming last night with a lovely faked ebonic accent. They stole his phone. That's Ferguson.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SWkTAqmJUwc

So while people buy into the media's "gentle giant" narrative, everyone forgets what places like Ferguson are like. The cultural mentality of these places are toxic, prosecutors like McCulloch don't have much patience for the day in day out violence and crime that occur in them, things like children getting killed because they walked into the crossfire of two gangbangers shooting each other. Nor should they, because Ferguson, a city of 21,000 people, is currently held hostage by a few thousand protestors, most of which aren't from Ferguson. There's an entire city with a significant population of black people scared shitless with their doors barred tonight. They expect McCulloch to do his job and promote their safety. And he did. He released so much documentation because he knew it was a national issue that was very sensitive, and the only way he could do his part in averting violence is make his case VERY clear to the public.

Michael Brown was not a nice guy and was from a culture that will beat and rob you. Don't believe me? Vacation in North St. Louis County and walk around for a week. You'll get it by end of that week. That is not to say this is a question of race, but that people like him in the gangbanger culture hold towns like Ferguson hostage. They are the bad guys, not Bob McCulloch and it's sick that he's being maligned in favor of a flagrantly obvious gangbanger ass that died in the most honorable way they know, by a cop's bullet instead of a rival gang member's.

And no, I would not vote for McCulloch if I was still a resident of St. Louis County.

[nooryisawesome]

One of the thugs shot a man in the chest in carjacking

[FightTheFuture]

By "every last one" you mean every last one except the dude who was walking in the street with Brown when Wilson rolled up, right?



http://www.vox.com/2014/11/25/7287443/dorian-johnson-story


"The testimony where Johnson recounts Brown being shot dead is devastating. He says Brown had already been shot and was running away. He says Brown stopped running after the second shot. He says Brown turned and yelled, "I don't have a gun," and took a kind of half step towards Wilson. And then he began to say something else, and since this is the crucial, terrible moment in the testimony, I'll let him tell it:The second statement he was starting to say I, you know, he couldn't get the full sentence out before the rest of the shots hit his body. And I stood and watched face-to-face as every shot was fired and as his body went down and his body never â€" his body kind of just went down and fell, you know, like a step, you know what I'm saying? Like a step, his body just kind of collapsed down and he just fell."

LOL Dorian Johnson


One word for ol' Dorian: perjury.



Hey, coolio, it's too bad we never got Leslie Van Houten's testimony. Could have made all the difference in Charlie's verdict 

[paladin1991]

One of the thugs shot a man in the chest in carjacking

Tonight?  How is it related to current events in Fergie? 

[bateman]

Yep he should have waited for the guy to grab his own gun from him, and then see if his life was in danger.

Love how no one addresses this - trying to take a cop's gun is not going to go well for anyone, whether you're a skinny white kid or a black guy as big as a house.

[FightTheFuture]

Accessories to crimes don't always make the most reliable witnesses.

Ding Ding! Give that man a Vegemite sandwich.

I also found this rather interesting:


http://theconservativetreehouse.com/2014/11/25/forensic-and-physical-evidence-proves-dorian-johnson-participated-in-the-attack-of-officer-wilson/

[WOTR]

     If Mike Brown kills Darren Wilson, we'd know neither one of their names.

     Quick quiz. Oakland, March, 2009- 4 cops(3 white/1 Hispanic) killed by black assailant. Name him.

      November, 2009. 4 white cops murdered/ambushed in Lakewood, Wa by black assailant. Name him.

     Bonus: Name one of the 8 dead cops.

     

Come back here in half a decade and I will give you the same pop quiz about Ferguson.  It is in the headlines for another month tops and then nobody will remember a single name associated with this mess.

[zeebo]

...Michael Brown was not a nice guy and was from a culture that will beat and rob you. Don't believe me? Vacation in North St. Louis County and walk around for a week. You'll get it by end of that week. That is not to say this is a question of race, but that people like him in the gangbanger culture hold towns like Ferguson hostage....

This is interesting as another member earlier called me a racist for pointing out it's a dangerous area so it might affect the mindset of cops on the beat there, i.e. they might be more on guard and respond more decisively to perceived threats.  This inferred racism from my statement seems to say more about that member's predjudice than mine.  Violence is violence, regardless of race.

[b_dubb]

http://www.cnn.com/2014/09/10/us/ferguson-michael-brown-shooting-witnesses/


I bet Darren Wilson wishes he'd stepped on the fucking gas now. Or rolled up the window and waited for backup.


http://comedy-quotes.com/bill-hicks/the_la_riots.html

[Eddie Coyle]

Come back here in half a decade and I will give you the same pop quiz about Ferguson.  It is in the headlines for another month tops and then nobody will remember a single name associated with this mess.

      Bullshit. If you don't know these names in five years, it speaks of your own cognitive deficiencies. But go ahead and ask on 11/26/2019. I'm damn sure I'll remember both names.

        I doubt you knew Lovelle Mixon's name at any point.

[nooryisawesome]

Tonight?  How is it related to current events in Fergie?

It was in the area. A freelance reporter was also carjacked.

report of another shooting as well.

[Yorkshire pud]

You mean the jay walking while black?


Of course you don't, you mean the tired right wing narrative espoused by racists like yourself that the kid was a "thug" and deserved what he got. That he should have accepted being endlessly stereotyped by conservatives and their mainstream media propaganda machine, and racially profiled whenever he encountered law enforcement.  And should he have lived long enough to go to the college he was accepted into, he should have accepted the critique of vile bigots like yourself that he only got there because of affirmative action.   Then, when he got a job, and worked hard, and was promoted, bastards like you would claim it was only because his employer needed to meet quotas.

Say what you really mean man!! Stop dithering.

[Yorkshire pud]

His shooting was unnecessary. 
Unfortunately for him, he made bad choices.
Don't punch a cop, don't get shot.

Punch a cop, get shot.  It's really that simple.
Bonus shots if you just robbed a Kwiky Mart.

Punching a cop should receive a lethal response? And you call that good policing? A copper here shooting an armed suspect is automatically referred to the IPCC to establish the circumstances. An armed copper shooting someone who punched him would be likely charged with murder.

[analog kid]

Wilson was supposed to have received two punches in the face by Hulk Hogan from inside the cop car, yet in the photos, he just has a slight scuff - on the wrong side of his face. Yeah, his testimony is a pack of lies. That's the problem I'm having. Can't say what happened after that, but I don't buy a word of what Wilson says.

[WOTR]

      Bullshit. If you don't know these names in five years, it speaks of your own cognitive deficiencies. But go ahead and ask on 11/26/2019. I'm damn sure I'll remember both names.

        I doubt you knew Lovelle Mixon's name at any point.

Fair enough... And you are correct.  My ability to recall even names of people who are in my life is questionable at best.  I have a great memory for certain details... Dates, numbers and names are not among them.


Truth be told, if you were ask me the names of the shooter and the fellow who was shot two months out from when it ceases to be news I would be unable to (even at this moment I am drawing a blank... it will come to me or I will look it up if I care...)  For some strange reason, I can recall Rodney King and even Reginold Denning (sp?), though I cannot recall who Reginold was or why I should recall his name.  Outside of that, I cannot tell you the names of the Mounties who were killed three months ago or the officers in Mayerthorpe a year ago (I cannot even tell you how many of them there were- 4 in each case, I think?)

[DanTSX]

I think this does a disservice to them.  Sounds to me like they made quite a good faith effort poring over all the evidence.  You may not agree with the outcome, but that doesn't mean it was rigged.

How was it rigged?




Nothing was rigged.




The evidence and testimony spells out that Brown was cruisin' for a Bruisin, then cornered a cop for some dumb reason who had legitimate reason to question Brown,( or are some of you guys suggesting that if this was your store you wouldn't want the police responding to your requests for a response?)


Wilson then had every right to defend himself.  Having seen what punches and hockey sticks can do to a unprotected cranium, lethal force is every bit a reasonable response.   The pictures of the injuries are not really conclusive.   Different people and different wounds bruise superficially in different ways at different times.   If Wilson got KO'd,meh could had been shot with his own gun.   (Which has happened to many LE officers over the years).  The officer needs to stay conscious to survive.m that's the bottom line.   The witness testimony corroborate claims that this was a very violent encounter on Brown's part.     You take those punches and see if you want to try a taser or a a whistle,


If someone is trying to harm me with fists, knives, blunt objects etc, and corners me with no way to escape, your damn right I'm clearing leather and will shoot them.   I don't have a badge or a gavel, just a gun with a bunch of bonded hollow points.   I have plenty of training and will avoid and evade any and all situations (which unfortunately a cop cannot do, because we complain if they don't go after the gentle giants that stole cigars from our stores), but if I'm in danger of death or grave bodily harm, there is no escalation of force.  There is just maximum force.   




This brings up another important question........what do you guys really think the role of the police should be?    You want them to go after the kids that steal cigars from your stores, but get mad when they try to kill the cop when they get caught......   I'm all ears on how you guys reconcile this......

[DanTSX]

Wilson was supposed to have received two punches in the face by Hulk Hogan from inside the cop car, yet in the photos, he just has a slight scuff - on the wrong side of his face. Yeah, his testimony is a pack of lies. That's the problem I'm having. Can't say what happened after that, but I don't buy a word of what Wilson says.

Why?

[DanTSX]

Punching a cop should receive a lethal response? And you call that good policing? A copper here shooting an armed suspect is automatically referred to the IPCC to establish the circumstances. An armed copper shooting someone who punched him would be likely charged with murder.

KO'd cop = dead cop if the thug uses the cop's gun to shoot him.


Lots of bodies in the ground for punches to the head also.


This was not a typical drunk pub patron in Merry Old England.   This was a huge thug who was either on an adrenaline Rush from evading the robbery, or on some sort of drug.  Possibly both.


You take those two punches and see if you are not wondering if the third will leave you unconscious......




Brown made a long series of poor decisions leading to his demise that day.   Changing any one of them would had left him alive.  Escalating his encounter with Wilson and trying to steal a cornered cop's gun is what did him in.  The skin either of them were born with has nothing to do with the events that lead up to his encounter that day.

[DanTSX]

Accessories to crimes don't always make the most reliable witnesses.

Actually, they do.    And the cigar theft was not on trial......Wilson was.




Don't try to invalidate the testimony because you don't like how the case went.  The judge, prosecuting and defending attorneys both allowed the testimony to be considered.






Lol liberal logic:


"Wilson shot brown because he was a he was prejudiced against thuggish looking blacks!"


"Dorian isn't a credible witness because he is a thuggish looking black"

[DanTSX]

Sure doesn't look like a 6'4", 220 pound guy was wailing on him, does it?  His GJ testimony was a pack of lies, as well.  Claims Brown was reaching for his gun.  Imagine how far into the driver's side window Brown would have to be to get at the gun on Wilson's right hip.

Oh, and Wilson's police vehicle - a pickup truck.

It was pointed at him already.


The contact was so close that the slide was out of battery, preventing the firing pin from contacting the primer on the trigger pull twice.   Finger prints on the gun should prove this unless you think the PD rubbed his hands on the gun post-mortem.  Which is going down the path of 19.5* Hoagland conspiracy.

[The General]

Punching a cop should receive a lethal response? And you call that good policing? A copper here shooting an armed suspect is automatically referred to the IPCC to establish the circumstances. An armed copper shooting someone who punched him would be likely charged with murder.

Cops in the UK carry guns?

Seriously though, yes. 
Punch a cop, get shot.
Put it on a t-shirt.

[Eddie Coyle]

Fair enough... And you are correct.  My ability to recall even names of people who are in my life is questionable at best.  I have a great memory for certain details... Dates, numbers and names are not among them.

      And you're in the majority. But my gut tells me that Michael Brown is such a cause celebre that his name will be remembered because I foresee an onslaught of books, films, treatises, college courses about this case. Trayvon Martin case has been nearly 3 years, and that ordeal still seems pretty fresh.