20150929 - Steven Starr - Nuclear War - Live Show Chat Thread

[b_dubb]

I will and I do. There is no correlation between the Iraq War and the Arab Spring....none and The New Yorker can try to make all the leaps and jumps they want, in an effort to connect the dots, but no, there is no connection other than the people involved, are Muslims. Also, I take issue with them labeling the Arab Spring as a positive, because if anything, the power vacuum that was created, from the removal of their so-called "leader", was frequently filled with extremists (see Morsi in Egypt).

I'm well aware of how the protests began and I'm sympathetic with their desire to rid themselves of their perceived masters, but it's an excellent case of "be careful what you wish for....."

The New Yorker article does not say the Arab Spring is a positive event. They say that some extreme right are using that to justify the invasion of Iraq. You should try reading the article.

[jblank]

I did read the article, sir. Mr. Maass, while not outright proclaiming his love, in this piece, is fine with the Arab Spring. It's the tie-in, that some have made, that he takes issue with. My point is, regardless of the article, regardless of what the "hawks" want to say, there is no correlation between the two and no, it didn't create a generation of young arabs that envisioned overthrowing dictators, after all, the removal of Saddam Hussein wasn't done via an uprising, but through outside forces.

[ZomZom]

I would say the images of Iraqis voting directly contributed to the Arab Spring.  Despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, George Bush advanced the cause of democracy in Iraq, only to be lost by Barack Obama's shameful neglect.

[Yorkshire pud]

I would say the images of Iraqis voting directly contributed to the Arab Spring.  Despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, George Bush advanced the cause of democracy in Iraq, only to be lost by Barack Obama's shameful neglect.

There was absolutely no correlation between the attacks in 2001 and the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. Both invasions were a convenient but wrong excuse. Bush even went as far as to say Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were best friends; They loathed each other! Democracy wasn't the aim, it never was.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

There was absolutely no correlation between the attacks in 2001 and the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. Both invasions were a convenient but wrong excuse. Bush even went as far as to say Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were best friends; They loathed each other! Democracy wasn't the aim, it never was.

Was there ever any conclusive proof released that Al-Qaeda was responsible for the attacks, apart from that blurry video of some guys sitting around in bathrobes talking about how they didn't think the towers would go down?

[ZomZom]

There was absolutely no correlation between the attacks in 2001 and the invasion of Iraq or Afghanistan. Both invasions were a convenient but wrong excuse. Bush even went as far as to say Bin Laden and Saddam Hussein were best friends; They loathed each other! Democracy wasn't the aim, it never was.

Not relevant to my assertion that Democratic progress in Iraq inspired others in the Arab Spring movement. I will add that in a pivotal but largely forgotten speech to the Heritage Foundation before the Iraq war, George Bush did, in fact, argue that a democratic Iraq would inspire others in the Middle East and ultimately lead to stability that was in America's interest.

This should not be confused with my endorsement of that policy. I was in favor of ousting Sadam but not for remaining after "Mission Accomplished" to build a democratic Iraq. Still, once blood and treasure had been sacrificed for that effort, I think it was shameful to abandon the gains that had been made.

Don't know why I'm arguing this here, I avoid the Politics sub forum because I'm on Bellfab for the paranormal discussions, but I do care deeply enough to try to set the record straight as I see it.

[b_dubb]

I would say the images of Iraqis voting directly contributed to the Arab Spring.  Despite conventional wisdom to the contrary, George Bush advanced the cause of democracy in Iraq, only to be lost by Barack Obama's shameful neglect.

George Bush advanced the cause of Big Oil and Big Business.  Yeah that's just horrible how Obama wanted to bring the troops home. 

[JamesMcDonald]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CTa8H6vAMyQ