War Birds

[Yorkshire pud]

Someone did what I did, but used a live version of the song (original accompaniment on the broadcast.) Slightly out of sequence, but better than what was put on the dvd.


https://youtu.be/9mN_jsBxVt0

[Walks_At_Night]

Great stuff YP.  Thanks for posting it.

I grew up not far from an airbase so I have fond memories of the F-4 Phantom II's.  No Buccaneer's I'm afraid but there were plenty
of F106's about which were pretty bad ass.

[Uncle Duke]

This from a series that was on tv in the 70's. Sailor was an early fly on the wall (real 'reality' tv). Ark Royal is at sea, and she's collecting her flock of Phantoms and Bucceneers. Some of the pilots are RAF and have never landed on a carrier before. The clipped tones of the Royal Navy commander aside, its quite interesting. The whole series is on dvd, and I copied a sequence and put in the original music, but google removed it, but then helpfully put in an ad to sell the music cd on my channel!


https://youtu.be/jv8prm4mGEQ

For those who've never visited, the RN Fleet Air Museum in Yeovilton has a mocked-up HMS Ark Royal display that is extraordinary.  It's more than a mock-up since a large number of components and equipment used were actually taken from the ship for use in the display.  It's like taking a walking tour of the ship, complete with a simulated helo landing on the flight deck.  The FAAM is, in my opinion, far nicer than either of the RAF Museums (Cosford or Herndon), and has the advantage of being located on/just adjacent to an active air base/station.  When I was there last in the late 90s, there was a lot of flying (Sea Harriers and various helos) going on at the time.  I still think the Sea Harrier is one of the prettiest naval fighters ever.  There is a guy here in the US who owns and flies a former FAA Sea Harrier at airshows, but I've yet to see him perform.

[Yorkshire pud]

Thursday, 15 Dec 2016
RAF engineer becomes first amputee to solo a Spitfire since Douglas Bader


When he lost his leg after a motorcycle accident, Alan Robinson though he would never be a pilot.

http://ukga.com/news/view?contentId=39430

[Taaroa]

RN Fleet Air Museum in Yeovilton

Doesn't seem like the easiest place to get to without a car - RAF museum was already an hour by tube from where I stay when in the UK.
I would like to have a look at the small deHavilland museum outside London, but it was closed for winter so maybe next time.



Pic related is the CAC Sabre, an Australian redesign of the F-86 to use a Rolls Royce engine (which required other changes) with 112 built. Used throughout south east asia by Australia, Malaysia, and Indonesia from the 50s to early 80s, it saw some combat during the Malayan emergency against communist forces. Replaced with the Mirage III by the RAAF, there's still one examle flying as a warbird.

[Uncle Duke]

Doesn't seem like the easiest place to get to without a car - RAF museum was already an hour by tube from where I stay when in the UK.
I would like to have a look at the small deHavilland museum outside London, but it was closed for winter so maybe next time.



Pic related is the CAC Sabre, an Australian redesign of the F-86 to use a Rolls Royce engine (which required other changes) with 112 built. Used throughout south east asia by Australia, Malaysia, and Indonesia from the 50s to early 80s, it saw some combat during the Malayan emergency against communist forces. Replaced with the Mirage III by the RAAF, there's still one examle flying as a warbird.

Yeah, Yeovilton is bit off the beaten path, but the FAAM is the best aviation museum I've visited in Europe.  We are a bit spoiled in the US since our government sponsored museums are free of charge, while it cost several pounds to visit any of UK museums.  Conversely, UK colleagues who I've escorted through the USAF Museum are amazed there is no fee to park at and/or tour the museum.

Both the Canadians and Aussies produced licensed built versions of the Sabre with upgraded engines.  The Aussies provided air defense with their Sabres at some SEA air bases where US strike aircraft were based during the Vietnam War.  They were there primarily to protect against North Vietnamese IL-28 light bombers, but also provided dissimilar air combat training for US air crews who had to face MiG-17s.  All the former US pilots I've spoken with who flew simulated combat with the RAAF Sabres were very impressed with both the aircraft and the pilots.

[Taaroa]

while it cost several pounds to visit any of UK museums

That must've changed at some point, since the majority of museums I've seen there are free with donations optional. I'd like to return to the US at some point and have a look at some more of the aviation stuff you guys have, but I did take a look at the Intrepid museum which was a bit average.



This is the South African version of the Aermacchi MB-326, with 40 Italian built examples and another 125 being built by the South Africans. They were used in combat against the Cubans, Angolans, and during the South African Border War, and typically flew at high speeds close to the ground to avoid air defences and interception by enemy MiGs.

[Uncle Duke]

That must've changed at some point, since the majority of museums I've seen there are free with donations optional. I'd like to return to the US at some point and have a look at some more of the aviation stuff you guys have, but I did take a look at the Intrepid museum which was a bit average.



This is the South African version of the Aermacchi MB-326, with 40 Italian built examples and another 125 being built by the South Africans. They were used in combat against the Cubans, Angolans, and during the South African Border War, and typically flew at high speeds close to the ground to avoid air defences and interception by enemy MiGs.

Just checked, there is no admission fee currently for either of the RAF Museums, but all the other museums (FAA, RN, RM, Army Air Corp, Duxford etc) charge 10£ or more per person with various discounts available.  I'm pretty sure both Hendon and Cosford charged admission at one time as well, but it's been fifteen years or so since I visited either.  At least some of those museums charged to park as well.  I never mind paying to get into museums, but think they sometimes price themselves out for family visits for the locals.

The Argentine Navy also used the MB-326 in combat against the Brits in the Falklands.  I know they lost a couple to ground fire, and a few were also captured.  The Italians have the reputation for designing/building good, if relatively simple, combat aircraft.  They often were sold to less technically advanced nations where their simplicity and ease of maintenance were strong selling points.  A good example was the Fiat G.91, a light strike fighter used to good effect  by the Portuguese from austere air fields in their African colonial wars back in the 70s.  Similarly the G.222 tactical transport was used throughout the world and is the basis for the C-27.

[Taaroa]

I never mind paying to get into museums, but think they sometimes price themselves out for family visits for the locals.

The worst I've seen in the UK was at the aquarium near the parliament last week, which charged £25 (31USD) for a single adult and an underwhelming experience. It's so much worse when there are excellent museums which charge nothing like the Horniman and British Museums.

Speaking of Argentina, I once was fortunate enough to visit patagonia and stayed in a tiny little town called Puerto San Julian. During the Falklands War the town's airfield (which had a giant hole in the middle of the runway making it mostly u/s while I was there) was used as a base due to the relative proximity of it to the islands, with IAI Daggers and A4s conducting sorties from it. Today they have a Dagger mounted on a pedestal as part of a memorial to the war.

[Jackstar]

Link is to a particular moment in an eighty-minute presentation I'm working my way through.


I feel like it belongs here. Give it a couple minutes.

[Taaroa]

They may have been dangerous, but this looks like a lot of fun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1C9o0iwtQ4

[Uncle Duke]

They may have been dangerous, but this looks like a lot of fun


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R1C9o0iwtQ4

Beautiful airplane, I remember as a youngster all the sonic booms when there was an F-104 unit stationed at WPAFB.  There is an F-104 aerial demonstration team on the airshow circuit here in the US, I think they are flying former Canadian CF-104s.  Last I heard they were based out of Florida.

Considering the number of F-104s produced around the world, and the number of air forces in which they served, Starfighters engaged in actual aerial combat on a small scale.  I know the Pakistanis flew them against the Indians (Gnats/Mig21s/Hunters), and I think the RoC flew them in combat against the PRC (F-6/Mig19s) over the Strait of Formosa.  There are rumors Jordanian F-104s engaged Israeli aircraft, but have never seen such engagements officially confirmed.  There were also a number of Greek v Turkish encounters throughout the 60s and 70s that could have involved F-104s, but again have never seen that confirmed.  There were USAF F-104s in SEA during the Vietnam War.  I don't think they engaged enemy a/c, although one apparently was ambushed and shot down (reportedly by a Chinese F-6) when it strayed into Chinese airspace.  F-104s also flew ground attack missions in SEA.

[Yorkshire pud]

Beautiful airplane, I remember as a youngster all the sonic booms when there was an F-104 unit stationed at WPAFB.  There is an F-104 aerial demonstration team on the airshow circuit here in the US, I think they are flying former Canadian CF-104s.  Last I heard they were based out of Florida.

Considering the number of F-104s produced around the world, and the number of air forces in which they served, Starfighters engaged in actual aerial combat on a small scale.  I know the Pakistanis flew them against the Indians (Gnats/Mig21s/Hunters), and I think the RoC flew them in combat against the PRC (F-6/Mig19s) over the Strait of Formosa.  There are rumors Jordanian F-104s engaged Israeli aircraft, but have never seen such engagements officially confirmed.  There were also a number of Greek v Turkish encounters throughout the 60s and 70s that could have involved F-104s, but again have never seen that confirmed.  There were USAF F-104s in SEA during the Vietnam War.  I don't think they engaged enemy a/c, although one apparently was ambushed and shot down (reportedly by a Chinese F-6) when it strayed into Chinese airspace.  F-104s also flew ground attack missions in SEA.

FWIW, the 104 that Neil Armstrong flew when at NASA is preserved at McClellan museum in California.

[Uncle Duke]

FWIW, the 104 that Neil Armstrong flew when at NASA is preserved at McClellan museum in California.

Are you talking about the NF version with the rocket motor mounted in the tail?  I used to occasionally see one of the stock NASA F-104s when I worked at NASA Langley, and worked in the same building where the sole NASA F-106 (two seater) was hangered.  They used the 106 to chase thunderstorms.

[Yorkshire pud]

Are you talking about the NF version with the rocket motor mounted in the tail?  I used to occasionally see one of the stock NASA F-104s when I worked at NASA Langley, and worked in the same building where the sole NASA F-106 (two seater) was hangered.  They used the 106 to chase thunderstorms.

Two seater, yes.

https://aerospaceca.org/events/aircraft/#jp-carousel-282

[Taaroa]

F-104s also flew ground attack missions in SEA.

Any idea how they were conducted? While aerodynamics is not one of my strong areas, I would've thought an aircraft with stubby wings and known for poor low speed handling would struggle in that role.

[Uncle Duke]

Any idea how they were conducted? While aerodynamics is not one of my strong areas, I would've thought an aircraft with stubby wings and known for poor low speed handling would struggle in that role.

Yeah, the early models had at best a secondary ground attack capability.  Limited hard points, short endurance (that got worse at low altitude), rudimentary ground targeting system, and poor maneuverability are not conducive to being a good ground attack platform.  If you look at stock footage from the late 50s/early 60s of F-104s dropping ordnance, it was usually napalm.  Napalm was an area saturation weapon, you didn't have to be particularly accurate in delivery.

Later models, especially those licence built in Italy and Canada, were designed for attack missions.  The RCAF aircraft were specifically designed to carry tactical nuclear weapons in Europe as part of Canada's NATO commitment. 

[Taaroa]

I read a story earlier this week about attempts to restore to flying condition a Scottish Aviation Twin Pioneer by using an example which has been sitting in a park for years.



The twin pioneer first flew in 1955 and was designed for civil and military operators as a STOL transport, requiring "an area only 30m (99ft) by 275m (902ft) in which to operate." They possessed twin radial engines, a high wing, tailwheel layout, 3 rudders, and the ability to carry externally mounted stores.  87 were built during their production run, with military operators being Malaysia, the UK, Oman, and Nepal.

It saw usage by the RAF during the Malayan Emergency and in supporting the Sultan of Oman, before being retired in the late 60s.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vdS7kKX2Qyg

[Juan]

An engine fell out of a B-52 during a training mission from Minot AFB. 
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2017/jan/05/engine-falls-off-b-52-bomber-near-minot-air-force-base/

The newest B-52 was made in 1962, which the whingers in the media think is very significant, but gives all the upgrades and refurbishing are any B-52s flying with any original parts?

[Yorkshire pud]

An engine fell out of a B-52 during a training mission from Minot AFB. 
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2017/jan/05/engine-falls-off-b-52-bomber-near-minot-air-force-base/

The newest B-52 was made in 1962, which the whingers in the media think is very significant, but gives all the upgrades and refurbishing are any B-52s flying with any original parts?

I suspect the wing spars may have been replaced on most. The panels and control surfaces are likely original. Was the B52 converted to fly by wire? The avionics and nav will be new. I read a few years ago that by the time the last one is retired, they'll have flown a 100 years from type approval.

[Uncle Duke]

An engine fell out of a B-52 during a training mission from Minot AFB. 
http://kfgo.com/news/articles/2017/jan/05/engine-falls-off-b-52-bomber-near-minot-air-force-base/

The newest B-52 was made in 1962, which the whin gers in the media think is very significant, but gives all the upgrades and refurbishing are any B-52s flying with any original parts?

Almost certainly a maintenance issue.  Tech orders exist for a reason, yet it never ceased to amaze me how many times during mishap investigations we found maintainers had taken short cuts or pencil whipping post-maintenance inspections/sign-offs. 

Kudos to the crew, there is nothing in their Dash 1 emergency procedures detailing what to do when an engine falls off an aircraft.  It's not just the loss of power, there are many other systems that can be affected and/or damaged in such situations.  Some may remember the AA DC-10 that physically lost its #1 engine on takeoff from Dallas in 1979.  When this mishap was reenacted in a simulator the pilots were able to recover and safely land the a/c because they knew the extent of the damage, the mishap crew did not have that advantage and everyone on board died.

[Walks_At_Night]

Nice segment from the John Batchelor show on the Stigler/Brown encounter in WWII

https://audioboom.com/posts/5434985-a-higher-call-an-incredible-true-story-of-combat-and-chivalry-in-the-war-torn-skies-of-world-war-ii-by-adam-makos-and-larry-alexander?t=0

[Jackstar]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/travel/flights/todayinthesky/2017/01/09/american-airlines-uniform-maker-garments-safe/96337854/

[Jackstar]

I had a lot of choices, but I feel like this belongs here.

http://theweek.com/articles/671483/cia-not-trusted

The CIA's brutal incompetence goes back virtually to the very moment of its founding. They spent most of the Cold War doing stuff like air-dropping thousands of people into China and Russia to get murdered, overthrowing foreign governments, spying on domestic dissidents, feeding random people LSD, screwing around with "psychic" charlatans, and so on.

Recent history is no exception. Most notoriously, on orders from the very top levels of the Bush administration, the CIA started and operated an illegal torture program which killed at least one person, and probably many more, in its custody. It provided no good intelligence and seriously damaged the agency's operational effectiveness. Then when the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence attempted to conduct a mere investigation of that program, the CIA spied on the staffers conducting the investigation and reported them to the Department of Justice, in what Sen. Dianne Feinstein called "a potential effort to intimidate this staff."

In many ways the incompetence of the CIA is a real shame, and not just due to its long history of atrocities. The American presidency badly needs quality information, and far too often nobody in the various intelligence agencies has been able to provide it. The CIA is particularly hamstrung in this respect, as quality intelligence work often plays second fiddle to the sexier task of overseas operations (or running the drone assassin fleet).

Perhaps one of you can direct me on where to handle this report more accurately. Thanks in advance.

[Jackstar]

Still superior to a Clinton presidency.

[(Sandman) Logan-5]

Jan 17 2017
Who wants their own air squadron ?    20 a/c (IAI Tzukits, the Israeli version of the Fouga CM.170 Magister) are up for sale for $200,000.00. Butterfly tail jet trainers / light strike aircraft. The only glitch is they need repairs and have to be shipped to wherever you are located. They currently reside in Israel.

"The detailed listing on Raptor Aviation’s website and Facebook page shows the aircraft have relatively high hours on them, with the remaining hours listed. All the avionics and other components are specified in the .pdf file on the listing."

https://theaviationist.com/2017/01/17/need-your-own-private-air-force-in-a-hurry-heres-one-for-sale/

 

[Taaroa]

are up for sale for $200,000.00. Butterfly tail jet trainers / light strike aircraft. The only glitch is they need repairs and have to be shipped to wherever you are located. They currently reside in Israel.

Unfortunately you'd end up paying significantly more than $200k.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IcQeZ_w8ro0

[pyewacket]

TOP SECRET COLD WAR PLANE: Heavily BOOSTED FLYING BOAT From RUSSIA That Can Run 400+ MPH!

Read more: http://www.musclecarszone.com/top-secret-cold-war-aircraft-heavily-boosted-flying-boat-from-russia-that-can-run-400-mph-dont-miss-this/#ixzz4YEzFyfNX
(KM) Ekranoplan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlEt0bCeTy8

[Walks_At_Night]

TOP SECRET COLD WAR PLANE: Heavily BOOSTED FLYING BOAT From RUSSIA That Can Run 400+ MPH!

Read more: http://www.musclecarszone.com/top-secret-cold-war-aircraft-heavily-boosted-flying-boat-from-russia-that-can-run-400-mph-dont-miss-this/#ixzz4YEzFyfNX
(KM) Ekranoplan

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlEt0bCeTy8

Wow.  Never heard of that beast.  Thanks for posting it Pye  (BTW - your handle is one of my favorites)

[Yorkshire pud]

Wow.  Never heard of that beast.  Thanks for posting it Pye  (BTW - your handle is one of my favorites)

Here's James May with the history and the new version.


https://youtu.be/Ch2zs-7je_s