What is Next in the Middle East?

[Zircon]

The government of Iran has been and continues to be the number one supporter of terrorism in the world.  Sorry if that hurts your feelings or if you are embarrased by it.  I'm not attacking you.  I think you are probably just a bit defensive, and that's understandable in this high-charged era.

As far as the muslims being antagonized and verbally attacked, what we have in reality is a mutli track approach from them.  1) aways claim to be the victim,  2) agressively issue threats and insist everyone else cater to them 3) cowardly terrorist attacks on innocent people / infidels. 

Treatment of women, storing weapons and hiding in their mosques after attacks where they know decent people won't go to root them out, using clearly marked ambulances on the battlefield to move soldiers and weapons, hostage taking - this week it's attacking embassies, I could go on all day.  Who else does that?  The thing I resent the most is our government letting these people into our country where they immediately claim to be 'offended' at our way of life and start clamoring for everyone to cater to them. 

What the Muslims really need is to to join the 21st Century, and maybe have a Gandhi type figure emerge as a leader instead of more terrorist cowards issuing threats from their rat holes.


Do you really think the West, with our liberty, freedom and democracy is inferior to what goes on in the Muslim world?

Very well said. Your description of the Muslim "manly" behavior exposes them for what these "brave martyrs" and "Allah's Warriors" really are ... fucking cowards who use their own women and children as body shields. Pathetic examples - even Allah is probably pissed. He'll probably give most of them 72 "Virginians" or 72 muscle bound angry gay killers rather than 72 virgins. I can only imagine what happens to the poor "martyr"s ass if the second one is true!

[Eddie Coyle]

Israel is one of just a few countries with the technological know-how to do this.

     That has undoubtedly sold it to other countries...like China.

[Zircon]

     That has undoubtedly sold it to other countries...like China.

True. Hell, they spy on us. Grateful huh? Cha-chink, cha-chink !!!

[analog kid]

LMAO Twelvers and that same misquote by MEMRI tv. Ahmadinejad has no power in Iran, and the Supreme leader despises him. He's like Mike Huckabee of Iran. You don't know jack about Iran. Stick to fox news and that  Batman/Joker creep you wrote ball massage poems for a few months back.

That misquote originated from one douchebag website and was picked up and parroted by all of our media and both Bush and Obama. The fact is that the people of Iran are largely westernized, secular, they like the US, and don't want war with anyone, and there is currently zero evidence that Iran is building a nuclear weapon. I'm not much of a conspiracist, but the pro Israel rhetoric in our media is so pervasive and universal that I can't see how it could be anything other than Israeli backed propaganda. They are not saints in their conflict with Palestine by any means and they can go fuck themselves.

[Zircon]

That misquote originated from one douchebag website and was picked up and parroted by all of our media and both Bush and Obama. The fact is that the people of Iran are largely westernized, secular, they like the US, and don't want war with anyone, and there is currently zero evidence that Iran is building a nuclear weapon. I'm not much of a conspiracist, but the pro Israel rhetoric in our media is so pervasive and universal that I can't see how it could be anything other than Israeli backed propaganda. They are not saints in their conflict with Palestine by any means and they can go fuck themselves.

Analog, even though you didn't write me ...

Most of us know the Iranian people want freedom and can't stand their government leaders. Anything "western" and hence "modern" is taboo. No wonder the rank and file in the Muslim world live in relative darkness or at least a shadow.

They know what is out there yet are forbidden to partake (if run by the Taliban or Al Qaeda) and limited elsewhere - Iran in this case. The Iranian people want to be "westernized" within limits and their overall faith does impose some restrictions to be in good standing. No problem. Don't drink and don't eat pork.

They tried but Obama didn't help. The students got arrested, executed and many shot in the streets. An Iranian spring was ignored? Why? Yet the Muslim Brotherhood in Egypt is embraced. Why? That government doesn't like us but doesn't want any missiles raining down on them so they're protecting the US Embassy better than the one sacked in Libya.

It is like this administration is all for "Arab Spring" as long as it leads to chaos and the rise of militant Islam. He already sees that there are a bunch of anti-US, anti-Israel leaders leading Iran so why mess up a good thing? We're for installing an Al Qaeda infected regime in Syria where atrocities are equally being committed by these "freedom fighters".

This administration is totally fucked but even while being fucked all of the rest of us are being raped  including the Iranian people.

The Palestinians want a homeland. Their leadership isn't willing to work things out with Israel ad continued conflict keeps them in power. Israel isn't a "saint" (or the Jewish equivalent) by any means as many have a "Zionist (Imperialist) attitude abut Israel's role in the Middle East and the world in general. Nobody wants to talk about that as you're immediately labeled an "anti-semite" - typical dog's reaction in a Pavlov experiment. But when you are threatened with extermination it tends to elicit a very strong "survival" response. And who are you to say the Iranians aren't just a few months away from developing an atomic bomb?

[PB the Deplorable]

... The fact is that the people of Iran are largely westernized, secular, they like the US, and don't want war with anyone, and there is currently zero evidence that Iran is building a nuclear weapon. I'm not much of a conspiracist, but the pro Israel rhetoric in our media is so pervasive and universal that I can't see how it could be anything other than Israeli backed propaganda. They are not saints in their conflict with Palestine by any means and they can go fuck themselves.

The Persians I've met have been nothing but friendly.  I think it would be perfectly safe visiting Iran, although maybe not this week.  Of all the Muslim countries with lousy governments, Iran is the most likely to become a US friend.

I have not had good experiences with the Israelis I've met, at least in the business world - they seem to somehow model themselves after the Russian gangsters you see in the movies.  I'm still waiting for the Israelis to explain their attack on the USS Liberty in 1967, but shhhhhh, we're not supposed to even bring that up.. 

[MV/Liberace!]

i like jews, and by extension, i like israel and support their right to exist and protect themselves.  however, i see a lot of support for israel which seems to be attached to some sort of fucking apocalyptic biblical prophecy, and that annoys the FUCK out of me.

[PB the Deplorable]

Why do we always hear about Israel being the only democracy in the region?   Doesn't Turkey count?  They're a NATO ally, they held down the southern flank against the USSR in the cold war - which was a pretty brave thing to do, they are an emerging country economically, they are very helpful to us behind the scenes with countries in the Muslim world that we are not on friendly terms with, they are influential, moderate, and help with the stability of surrounding countries, and even have good relations with Israel. 

They follow what's in their self interest, as they should,,and the government has  been tilting more 'Islamic' lately, but they are more valuable to us and better allies than Israel is. 

[PB the Deplorable]

i like jews, and by extension, i like israel and support their right to exist and protect themselves...

The Israelis are very different from American Jews, at least from my limited experience.  I admire Israel for the most part, certain Israelis - not so much.

[RealCool Daddio]

Why do we always hear about Israel being the only democracy in the region?   Doesn't Turkey count? 

You're right, they count.  They're just considered part of the meditaranian region as opposed to middle east, I suspect.

[MV/Liberace!]

The Israelis are very different from American Jews, at least from my limited experience.

perhaps that's true.  i don't know.  what i do know, however, is that the israelis invent things and they're smart.

[Sardondi]

Why do we always hear about Israel being the only democracy in the region?   Doesn't Turkey count?....

Well, I've always considered Turkey more Near Eastern than Middle, and more in the sphere of Greece-Bulgaria-and remnants of Southeast Russia; although of course its southeastern border joins Iraq and Syria.

Speaking of Turkey's borders, for the last decade or so Turkey has been much more a genuine "neutral" than an actual ally of the US and NATO. Indeed, Turkey's refusal to permit NATO to use a Southern Turkish base as a staging site to open a second front against Saddam Hussein in 2004 was a violation of its NATO membership agreement.  Turkey of course refused the use of the bases out of fear that the Kurds of Northern Iraq and Southern Turkey might ultimately benefit and so eventually gain the independence they're desperate to get.

So I'm not too excited about Turkey. Plus, their commitment to a democratic form of government has never been all that solid. Newspapers are strongly controlled and can be shut down at will; and there's still a strong secret police presence which disappears a good number of folks.

The fact is Israel is far and away the most committed to democracy in the region, with a an unrivaled track record. Just the way it is.

...They're just considered part of the meditaranian region as opposed to middle east, I suspect.

What he said.

[ziznak]

i like jews, and by extension, i like israel and support their right to exist and protect themselves.  however, i see a lot of support for israel which seems to be attached to some sort of fucking apocalyptic biblical prophecy, and that annoys the FUCK out of me.

Zionists? I don't think anybody likes them.

[BigDave]

I think Israel will say f**k it and preemptively strike Iran.

[Sardondi]

i like jews, and by extension, i like israel and support their right to exist and protect themselves.  however, i see a lot of support for israel which seems to be attached to some sort of fucking apocalyptic biblical prophecy, and that annoys the FUCK out of me.

Zionists? I don't think anybody likes them.

Got a little problem with Jews, do ya' z-man?

[b_dubb]

Israel is hard to pin down. There are extremes. Very pro war and very forgiving. It's the Israeli hawks that scare me. They want to turn Iran burnt spot

[BigDave]

Israel is hard to pin down. There are extremes. Very pro war and very forgiving. It's the Israeli hawks that scare me. They want to turn Iran burnt spot

It very well could be them or us(Iran vs USA and Israel)

[Mind Flayer Monk]

"As violent protests over an anti-Islamic film ridiculing the Prophet Muhammad sweep over much of the Muslim world, a conservative blogger's provocative ad equating Muslim radicals with savages is set to go up in New York City's subway system."


http://www.foxnews.com/us/2012/09/23/anti-jihad-avage-ads-going-up-in-new-york-city-subway/

Is the timing of this and the video the work of the shadow government and the military-industrial complex?

[Ben Shockley]

...a conservative blogger's provocative ad ...
Is the timing of this and the video the work of the shadow government and the military-industrial complex?

No doubt.
The "blogger" in question is probably some end-timer who is convinced that if the bodies can just pile up high enough in the "Middle East," Jesus will descend the pile and come take him (the "blogger") off to some fairy-tale "Illustrated Bible Story" world of robes, cute lambs, and no income tax.

[BigDave]

No doubt.
The "blogger" in question is probably some end-timer who is convinced that if the bodies can just pile up high enough in the "Middle East," Jesus will descend the pile and come take him (the "blogger") off to some fairy-tale "Illustrated Bible Story" world of robes, cute lambs, and no income tax.

Wow,condesending much?

[Ben Shockley]

Wow,condesending much?

I never fail to be amazed by people who act offended by deliberately over-the-top portrayals that no one is his right mind would link himself to.

BTW-- if you want "condesending" -- it's spelled condescending.

[Zircon]

Got a little problem with Jews, do ya' z-man?

Am curious Sardondi ... how do interpret criticism of Israel? Even Israel isn't above objective assessment. I find some people are quick to say "Oh, what about the six million?", "anti-semite" etc. when you criticize Israel on anything. Even when having an argument with a Jewish person over politics in particular, you get this same question asking if you have a problem with Jews. You know, it has been suggested that Glenn Beck "left" Fox because most of the criticism he was leveling at specific persons in Obama's inner circle and among his czars and their policy happened to be Jewish.

My bringing this up ... do I have a problem with Jews, does Glenn Beck who happens to defend Israel very strongly? Am I allowed to make comments on this or ask questions?

I think Ziz's "Zionist" comment pertain to the avatar - who looks like a crazed Imam/Cleric trying to execute a fatuah (sp?).

[BigDave]

I never fail to be amazed by people who act offended by deliberately over-the-top portrayals that no one is his right mind would link himself to.

BTW-- if you want "condesending" -- it's spelled condescending.

Ok,Teacher! Arrogantly pointing out spelling

[McPhallus]

Ok,Teacher! Arrogantly pointing out spelling

Arrogance and feigned victimization are the two superpowers of the Ben Shockley.

[Sardondi]

Am curious Sardondi ... how do interpret criticism of Israel? Even Israel isn't above objective assessment. I find some people are quick to say "Oh, what about the six million?", "anti-semite" etc. when you criticize Israel on anything. Even when having an argument with a Jewish person over politics in particular, you get this same question asking if you have a problem with Jews. You know, it has been suggested that Glenn Beck "left" Fox because most of the criticism he was leveling at specific persons in Obama's inner circle and among his czars and their policy happened to be Jewish.

My bringing this up ... do I have a problem with Jews, does Glenn Beck who happens to defend Israel very strongly? Am I allowed to make comments on this or ask questions?

I think Ziz's "Zionist" comment pertain to the avatar - who looks like a crazed Imam/Cleric trying to execute a fatuah (sp?).

Yeah, I think on retrospect Ziz's comment was intended as irony.

As for me, my default position is: the US has no greater ally in the Mideast than Israel. I say that with full knowledge of the 200+ casualties the US suffered in the extended attack by IAF planes on the essentially unarmed US electronic spy ship Liberty on June 8, 1967 during the Six-Day War while it was not far off the coast of Israel, but still in international waters. Regardless, Israel is probably as reliable an ally as we have today, notwithstanding Obama's statement yesterday (which was plainly a signal - asi if one was needed - that the Obama Administration is no fan of Israel), when he said Israel was "one of our closest allies in the region". Compared to who?

I give Israel leeway which I would not give to other countries, even to other allies. That is because of Israel's unique history and position. First, Israel has "enemies", not competitors or rivals. The reasons for this arise not out of geopolitical concerns, but are found in the very marrow of the region: religion, culture and ethnicity. Israel's enemies don't want to merely contain Israel, or out-compete it for natural resources or trade: they want to destroy Israel. And by "destroy" I mean they want to disassemble that nation recognized by the world in 1947...but that is not all. They want to destroy the Israelis - wait, that's not entirely accurate, so let me be more specific - they want to destroy the Jews as a people. They'll accept another Jewish diaspora in which they're scattered to the winds; but ideally they would seek the destruction of Jewish life and culture on earth, as was already tried once.

The reason I give Israel the benefit of the doubt, is that Israel has passed the test many times: Israel has never said it wanted to destroy Islam, or Muslims simply because they were Muslims. They've never said they wanted the utter destruction of Syria, Egypt, Libya, Iraq, Iran, Saudi Arabia, Kuwait, Qatar, etc, etc. Even though political representatives of each of those nations have called at one time or another but still at some time in the last 20 years for the utter physical destruction of Jews because they are Jews. . 

So opposition to Israel so often means something entirely different than, say, opposition to Ahmadinejad. Of course Israel should not be immune to charges of mistreatment of Arabs within its borders. And it is true supporters of Israel sometimes have an almost tripwire recourse to charges of anti-Semitism when opposition is raised to Israel. But the reason is, unfortunately, that history has shown that there is a basis for feeling the attacks are at heart brought on by anti-Semitism and/or a desire to drive Jews out of Israel forever. Not always of course, but enough that it can't be ignored. 

I don't even know if this made sense. For something like the 6th night in a row I have slept only a couple of hours, and I feel like crap.

[onan]

I don't even know if this made sense. For something like the 6th night in a row I have slept only a couple of hours, and I feel like crap.

Go. To. The. Doctor.

For one that so often writes thoughts that are so linear, I am not sure why you do not see this as a concern. Oh wait... no sleep. Man seriously, go.

[Sardondi]

Go. To. The. Doctor.

For one that so often writes thoughts that are so linear, I am not sure why you do not see this as a concern. Oh wait... no sleep. Man seriously, go.

It feels like tonight's the night - I'm sleepy! (But thanks.)

[Pragmier]

Signs the sanctions are at least causing shit in Iran. And the FOX News version.

"During the past months some Iranian leaders and clerics have warned against social unrest over the worsening economic malaise in the country. The fall in the currency’s value has presented Iran with enormous economic risks..."

"Ahmadinejad now could face increasing domestic attacks before elections, including possibly being called before parliament for questioning over the currency upheavals."

GOOD!!

PS: And speaking of Mahmoud, he doesn't worry me as much as the behind-the-scenes masterminds.

[BigDave]

Signs the sanctions are at least causing shit in Iran. And the FOX News version.

"During the past months some Iranian leaders and clerics have warned against social unrest over the worsening economic malaise in the country. The fall in the currency’s value has presented Iran with enormous economic risks..."

"Ahmadinejad now could face increasing domestic attacks before elections, including possibly being called before parliament for questioning over the currency upheavals."

GOOD!!

PS: And speaking of Mahmoud, he doesn't worry me as much as the behind-the-scenes masterminds.

Mahmoud is a modern day Hitler or Idi Amin. You have to be scared of a nut like that

[ziznak]

OI!! I have no issues with my Jewish or Muslim bruthahs but I do take issue with:
a)The creation of the state of Israel and the displacement of the people that had lived there up until 47.
b)Any group that calls for the utter extermination of any other group due to religion, nationality, or species... er wait scratch that last one... Coleoptera's can go... fucking flying in my face all summer n shit... hate em. 

So, to sum up... I have no issues with the Jews or the Musses... muzzz ezzzz.  I'll just call them Slams.. ahem I have no issues with the Jews or the Slams but I do have issues with the Jewish state known as Israel and the crazy wanna-kill-all-the-jews Muslims.  Also, I wouldn't mind the total eradication of all cock-eyed flying bettles.  They piss me off.