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Random Political Thoughts

Started by MV/Liberace!, February 08, 2012, 10:50:42 AM


pate

As an american (Monroe Doctrine) I think I'd rather be feared than respected in the current political climate.





pyewacket

More good news for a sunny Saturday. The story is from Feb (as George would say  ;))

Antifa Leader Arrested, Charged With Terrorism

https://americanfreepress.net/antifa-leader-arrested-charged-with-terrorism/

Juan

It’s amusing that these Antifa Klansmen don’t attack people here where a good half the population has a concealed carry license.

albrecht

Quote from: pyewacket on July 13, 2019, 10:35:34 AM
More good news for a sunny Saturday. The story is from Feb (as George would say  ;) )

Antifa Leader Arrested, Charged With Terrorism

https://americanfreepress.net/antifa-leader-arrested-charged-with-terrorism/
Lots more should be arrested, indicted, and tried. Maybe as "enemy combatants, even." Having said this is 'old news' and I want to see the actual arrest report, indictment, pre-trial hearings, plea deal, or result of trial, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like AFP and other such places but there news is often someone suspect or speculative. So me the actual documents and link to the official government websites etc in articles, please (not to you but to AFP and all website authors.) Because all the news stories about his, and other's, arrests all link to the same people/sources and no actual government or court documents (that I can find.)

Kidnostad3

Quote from: albrecht on July 13, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
Lots more should be arrested, indicted, and tried. Maybe as "enemy combatants, even." Having said this is 'old news' and I want to see the actual arrest report, indictment, pre-trial hearings, plea deal, or result of trial, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like AFP and other such places but there news is often someone suspect or speculative. So me the actual documents and link to the official government websites etc in articles, please (not to you but to AFP and all website authors.) Because all the news stories about his, and other's, arrests all link to the same people/sources and no actual government or court documents (that I can find.)

Seems legit to me. 

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/antifa-activist-facing-assault-charges-was-tied-to-democratic-policymakers

WOTR

Quote from: albrecht on July 13, 2019, 12:11:30 PM
Lots more should be arrested, indicted, and tried. Maybe as "enemy combatants, even." Having said this is 'old news' and I want to see the actual arrest report, indictment, pre-trial hearings, plea deal, or result of trial, etc. Don't get me wrong, I like AFP and other such places but there news is often someone suspect or speculative. So me the actual documents and link to the official government websites etc in articles, please (not to you but to AFP and all website authors.) Because all the news stories about his, and other's, arrests all link to the same people/sources and no actual government or court documents (that I can find.)

It's funny. I often have the same request. Last night I posted in the "100 years ago" thread a newspaper clip showing Japanese immigrants illegally crossing the Mexican boarder (from 1919.) The first I came across it was Reditt, and I refused to even post it to a lightly read board without finding the original paper and posting a link. I found the link to the original paper on another redit post (or I would not have posted it here.)

Surely if those are the standards that I want to see from a private individual posting to a thread, the "news" sites can follow the same standard?

https://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=9331.msg1340121#msg1340121


albrecht

Quote from: WOTR on July 13, 2019, 01:57:40 PM
It's funny. I often have the same request. Last night I posted in the "100 years ago" thread a newspaper clip showing Japanese immigrants illegally crossing the Mexican boarder (from 1919.) The first I came across it was Reditt, and I refused to even post it to a lightly read board without finding the original paper and posting a link. I found the link to the original paper on another redit post (or I would not have posted it here.)

Surely if those are the standards that I want to see from a private individual posting to a thread, the "news" sites can follow the same standard?

https://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=9331.msg1340121#msg1340121
Yep. Because many people are lazy and reporters and "news" organizations are especially so- if they aren't simply referencing some other news organization's or reporter's report and just re-telling it- or using AI or aggregators to "write" articles.  There also aren't many editors left so grammar problems, incorrect articles, non-sourced material, or just re-hashed stories frequently occur. The SPEED and POLITICAL-BENT is more important than accurate information or actual details on the story.  If a non-professional journalist Bellgabber can find the information certainly a "news" organization or reporter could? 


https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CPReport.ashx?docketNumber=CP-51-CR-0000678-2019&dnh=NPQY4Z5R4sJTQTmFgVkuRg%3d%3d

https://ujsportal.pacourts.us/DocketSheets/CourtSummaryReport.ashx?docketNumber=CP-51-CR-0000678-2019&dnh=NPQY4Z5R4sJTQTmFgVkuRg%3d%3d



Kidnostad3

Quote from: pate on July 13, 2019, 01:03:14 AM
As an american (Monroe Doctrine) I think I'd rather be feared than respected in the current political climate.



If you've got'em by the balls their hearts and minds will follow. 

pyewacket

Terrorist Who Firebombed ICE Facility Wrote in Manifesto: “I Am Antifa”

https://summit.news/2019/07/14/terrorist-who-firebombed-ice-facility-wrote-in-manifesto-i-am-antifa/


Does the above qualify?

Domestic Terrorism Law and Legal Definition

Domestic terrorism means “activities that--

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended--

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”(18 USCS § 2331)

https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/domestic-terrorism/

WOTR

Quote from: pyewacket on July 14, 2019, 01:45:23 PM
Terrorist Who Firebombed ICE Facility Wrote in Manifesto: “I Am Antifa”

https://summit.news/2019/07/14/terrorist-who-firebombed-ice-facility-wrote-in-manifesto-i-am-antifa/


Does the above qualify?

Domestic Terrorism Law and Legal Definition

Domestic terrorism means “activities that--

(A) involve acts dangerous to human life that are a violation of the criminal laws of the United States or of any State;

(B) appear to be intended--

(i) to intimidate or coerce a civilian population;

(ii) to influence the policy of a government by intimidation or coercion; or

(iii) to affect the conduct of a government by mass destruction, assassination, or kidnapping; and

(C) occur primarily within the territorial jurisdiction of the United States.”(18 USCS § 2331)

https://definitions.uslegal.com/d/domestic-terrorism/

I would be bloody careful what I wished for... I would consider that right now, it is still the "right" who is keeping the government in check. Once you start calling for the extreme powers that the government has given themselves over the last decade to be used, you are risking a lot.

You can see who is getting "deplatformed" and silenced in the social media and by the corporations. There is little doubt in my mind that they are acting as the government would like them to.

I believe that there is an effort to provide an enemy that will force the "right" to start calling for police powers to be used and the new laws tested (with the full backing of those who traditionally want to limit the reach of government) before those same laws are turned for use against that population who supported them. Alex Jones will be guilty of inciting terrorism, and we will have a wonderful way to shut down anybody that we want ("they are terrorists.")

There are laws already on the books that can be used for assault and arson. Use the tools that already exist.

Of course, I could be wrong. They might just use these laws against the left, and we can all cheer as they lock away those communist terrorists.*

* Or they might decide that the guy on the right going out to counter protest is the terrorist.


pyewacket

Quote from: WOTR on July 14, 2019, 03:18:32 PM
I would be bloody careful what I wished for... I would consider that right now, it is still the "right" who is keeping the government in check. Once you start calling for the extreme powers that the government has given themselves over the last decade to be used, you are risking a lot.

You can see who is getting "deplatformed" and silenced in the social media and by the corporations. There is little doubt in my mind that they are acting as the government would like them to.

I believe that there is an effort to provide an enemy that will force the "right" to start calling for police powers to be used and the new laws tested (with the full backing of those who traditionally want to limit the reach of government) before those same laws are turned for use against that population who supported them. Alex Jones will be guilty of inciting terrorism, and we will have a wonderful way to shut down anybody that we want ("they are terrorists.")

There are laws already on the books that can be used for assault and arson. Use the tools that already exist.

Of course, I could be wrong. They might just use these laws against the left, and we can all cheer as they lock away those communist terrorists.*

* Or they might decide that the guy on the right going out to counter protest is the terrorist.

I am not wishing for a USA version of the CHEKA. It does seem that certain factions within our own government support these groups. This is dangerous.

These groups seem to be past the 'peaceful protest' stage and are now well on the path of physical violence. Rather quick escalation from milkshakes, isn't it?

They are making a martyr of this guy (I refuse to name him) and that may have been his intention along with the violent attack itself. If you are on Twitter or Parler, you can see the antifa tweets praising him. Some members are calling for a war on the police in response.

The difficult question is- how far can this go? These groups make up their own rules as they go and they determine how to label others. Truth and reality mean nothing to fanatics.

Have any politicians come out to condemn his attack on the ICE detention center? Maxine, Pelosi, Harris, Cortez? Any dems?

How about the MSM?

These people are the useful idiots who pave the way for authoritarian governments. It has been done before.

Funny, they were not upset about this issue when BO was in office. Wonder what/who changed their minds.

You have a point about using existing laws, but what about the people who have made it their purpose to overwhelm the system and cause it to collapse?



 

Juan

I’ve lived in the US south most of my life. These Antifa clowns are exactly like the Ku Klux Klan of my youth - masked armed thugs in support of the more extreme members of the Democrat Party. In my surrounding states, we’ve had laws for 60-odd years to deal with such. Primary among them are laws that make hiding behind a full face mask illegal. We have strong anti-riot laws. And we have concealed carry. You don’t see Antifa in this part of the country.

WOTR

Quote from: pyewacket on July 14, 2019, 04:45:14 PM
I am not wishing for a USA version of the CHEKA. It does seem that certain factions within our own government support these groups. This is dangerous.

How do you see the next Democrat president interpreting these laws if they are put into widespread use? I imagine once they declare an open boarder policy all they would have to do is put a few fake plants in a protest to enact some violence and suddenly the whole movement of resistance would be a terrorist threat. It would make for a nice, easy way to limit your speech and actions using the threat of some pretty major jail time.

Quote from: pyewacket on July 14, 2019, 04:45:14 PM
These people are the useful idiots who pave the way for authoritarian governments. It has been done before.

While I agree with your point on useful idiots- I am concerned that is a two way street. I am concerned that the government could easily use outrage against the left to bring in wide spread support for laws that will be used to limit dissent on both sides.

Quote from: pyewacket on July 14, 2019, 04:45:14 PM
You have a point about using existing laws, but what about the people who have made it their purpose to overwhelm the system and cause it to collapse?

I believe that we are a long way from anybody managing to collapse the system by overwhelming it. I would also hope that it is harder to get a conviction for domestic terrorism than for assault or arson or any of the other existing laws that could be used.

Juan has an excellent point on ways to prevent this kind of action without resorting to opening what I would consider to be Pandora's box...

Don't get me wrong- I believe that these masked cowards are scum. I just don't believe it necessary to label it domestic terrorism and I do think that allowing such prosecutions to take place will, within a decade, allow prosecutors a far more dangerous tool to limit protests, speech, actions and thought on all sides.

The problem is not that laws are not in place to deal with this- it is with municipalities and states who do not want to use the existing law to prevent the actions that we are observing. It is with police forces that have been told to stand down while individuals are assaulted in the streets and businesses burned and looted.

pyewacket

WOTR- I understand and share your concerns. I think the abuses have been going on for years now. Look at what they are doing to President Trump. Imagine what they will do to regular people if they get back into power. Look at how badly our highest law enforcement oranizations have been compromised by partisan behavior and agenda driven motivations.

I agree with both you and Juan, but too many officials have made it policy to defy federal laws, with sanctuary cities, denying ICE access to their data bases, granting illegals drivers licenses, and so on.

I am in favor of states rights, but what can be done if the locals do not enforce laws already on the books to prevent more draconian measures?

I think there is a bill in the works that will allow victims to sue sanctuary city governments. I think this is an excellent start. Hold public officials responsible for their policies.

I posted the article and the definition of domestic terrorism because I am concerned that some of these groups are deliberately pushing for this to gain more power.   






WOTR

Quote from: pyewacket on July 14, 2019, 07:13:33 PM
WOTR- I understand and share your concerns. I think the abuses have been going on for years now. Look at what they are doing to President Trump. Imagine what they will do to regular people if they get back into power. Look at how badly our highest law enforcement oranizations have been compromised by partisan behavior and agenda driven motivations.

I posted the article and the definition of domestic terrorism because I am concerned that some of these groups are deliberately pushing for this to gain more power.
I appreciate what you were saying. I would even say that on a personal level, I would consider at least some of what ANTIFA is doing would qualify as terrorism. I just don't trust the government and prosecutors to restrain themselves.

pyewacket

Quote from: WOTR on July 15, 2019, 12:54:44 AM
I appreciate what you were saying. I would even say that on a personal level, I would consider at least some of what ANTIFA is doing would qualify as terrorism. I just don't trust the government and prosecutors to restrain themselves.

The left's aggressive promotion of violence and the intention to "eliminate" whatever they disagree with or whatever/whoever offends them should be of concern.

You might find this article interesting.

Welcome to Social Government

Quote
    Pluralism (political theory)
    Classical pluralism is the view that politics and decision making are located mostly in the framework of government, but that many non-governmental groups use their resources to exert influence. The central question for classical pluralism is how power and influence are distributed in a political process. Groups of individuals try to maximize their interests. Lines of conflict are multiple and shifting as power is a continuous bargaining process between competing groups.

    EconomicPluralism.com
    "The term pluralism is generally used to contrast with so called ‘mainstream’ economics teaching which generally only focusses [sic] on one school of economic thought called neo-classical economics.... that economic teaching should include other schools of thought such as complexity, institutional, post-Keynesianism and Marxist economics"

https://www.spinquark.com/welcome-to-social-government/



albrecht

What is amazing is that what the so-called "right-wing, fringe crackpots" have been pointing out for years is now admitted by the Democratic Party and they, when they are in Socialist Conferences or attacking police, universities, or ICE facilities, freely admit it.  The only thing "shocking" about this admittedly partisan article, I assume since I don't know much about the magazine, is that the author claims to be "shocked" that this group admits that they need to destroy the family because it holds back "progress" and promotes "capitalism," that they want no-borders (for Western countries,) that use models for socialism that have very small (and homogeneous) populations- like Sweden etc- (and if one looks what happens when the economy goes south or immigrants are freely let in there,) and that they use the "Green" movement to advance communist goals. Any of these are a "surprise?" Anyone who has even a basic knowledge of history, Marx (and others of his ilk,) and politics over the past few decades, especially in Europe- but also here- should not be "surprised." 

I would've gone further with regard to "cultural relativism," the odd promotion of Islam (thinking that once Western society is torn down with the help of Islam the Commies can "rebuilt it," political correctness and use of language (changing definitions, cracking down of free speech, bullying and propaganda,) and the use of "migrants," poor college students, junkies, and criminals as a "Lumpenproletariate" both to break the system by sheer numbers/costs (Cloward-Piven) or as a form of shock-troops to actually, physically attack polite, institutions, political opponents, etc again, right out of Marx and other writers. 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/i-went-socialism-conference-here-are-6-shocking-things-i-learned-67057



Jojo

Quote from: albrecht on July 15, 2019, 05:08:16 PM
What is amazing is that what the so-called "right-wing, fringe crackpots" have been pointing out for years is now admitted by the Democratic Party and they, when they are in Socialist Conferences or attacking police, universities, or ICE facilities, freely admit it.  The only thing "shocking" about this admittedly partisan article, I assume since I don't know much about the magazine, is that the author claims to be "shocked" that this group admits that they need to destroy the family because it holds back "progress" and promotes "capitalism," that they want no-borders (for Western countries,) that use models for socialism that have very small (and homogeneous) populations- like Sweden etc- (and if one looks what happens when the economy goes south or immigrants are freely let in there,) and that they use the "Green" movement to advance communist goals. Any of these are a "surprise?" Anyone who has even a basic knowledge of history, Marx (and others of his ilk,) and politics over the past few decades, especially in Europe- but also here- should not be "surprised." 

I would've gone further with regard to "cultural relativism," the odd promotion of Islam (thinking that once Western society is torn down with the help of Islam the Commies can "rebuilt it," political correctness and use of language (changing definitions, cracking down of free speech, bullying and propaganda,) and the use of "migrants," poor college students, junkies, and criminals as a "Lumpenproletariate" both to break the system by sheer numbers/costs (Cloward-Piven) or as a form of shock-troops to actually, physically attack polite, institutions, political opponents, etc again, right out of Marx and other writers. 

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/buzz/i-went-socialism-conference-here-are-6-shocking-things-i-learned-67057
These are not Democrats.


Gd5150

Raise your hand if you hate the constitution.


Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Gd5150 on July 17, 2019, 11:15:09 AM
Raise your hand if you hate the constitution.



And secretly want to destroy this nation. ;)

albrecht

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on July 17, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
And secretly want to destroy this nation. ;)
They don't appear to be very secretive about their goals. Simply look at their tweets, campaign statements, debate answers, signs at their riots/protests, and voting records. 

WOTR

Quote from: Kizuna Ai on July 15, 2019, 04:18:22 PM
look at all these noses

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YLFNaoeu370

I don't know why I thought of this recent post...  8)


Quote from: AZRAA on July 14, 2019, 10:43:49 AM
Kizuna AI â€" It’s the JOOS! Or surely the NIBBAS! Has distilled the political soup down to 2 key culprits and anime humps them like a crazed dog in a forest full of bipedal miscreants.

WOTR

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on July 17, 2019, 04:38:16 PM
And secretly want to destroy this nation. ;)

I have not done the math yet... But I assume this is either a bid to send the US into a massive hyperinflaton spiral, or the most massive wealth transfer from the "wealthy" to every other citizen every conceived. One day I will figure out the actual annual cost of this stupid idea (I don't know why I have not seen any news organization give the annual cost as a wake-up call to stupid voters who all want $1000 per month of "free" money.)

https://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2019/apr/15/andrew-yang-2020-democrat-proposes-1000month-freed/
"Speaking during a CNN town hall Sunday, Mr. Yang said his solution to the loss of American jobs due to increasing automation and artificial intelligence technology is to give everyone 18 and older a $1,000 check every month, regardless of their current income or employment."

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