The crime of being an unmarried mother

[SciFiAuthor]

We just put in a 2000 gallon septic tank on our retirement property. These are the specs:
Length 102", Width 69", Height 59", Weight 8600 lbs. Inlet flow line to bottom of tank 49"

That is for a 5 bedroom house. I am guessing for a "community"... bigger

The key is deeper. Not bigger. If it's a very deep hole narrow enough to have a moveable concrete cover on top, to fit 800 skeletons inside it's going to have to be quite deep. So let's do an experiment. Grab your shovel, bury your septic tank 30 feet under ground, and see if it defies gravity and drains to leach field level without a pump. It won't. I remain skeptical on that basis, it's probably actually a well or cistern that someone somewhere along the line branded a septic tank and it stuck.

[Quick Karl]

Where exactly does it say they were starved to death? Your Mirror article specifically states disease, of which Ireland was rampant with at the time. As to the locals, 50+ year-old here say isn't what I would call solid. I want to hear what the women who lived there had to say. If it closed in 1961, then there are likely some left around. Possibly some nuns as well since they all seem to live to 110.

You're also claiming that the children were forcibly taken from the women. Um, the children are buried on the grounds of the home for the women. They apparently weren't forcibly taken very far.

Anyway, this is all probably just some sensationalist bullshit anyway. I'd imagine the local historian has a book written up and went to the media in hopes of promo. But if you take the mirror article and reduce it down to the bare facts, there isn't much left. Just the discovery of a mass grave at a charity home for women rejected by their families during a time when mass graves were a norm. The selling point was the septic tank, or else the story would not have been newsworthy. It's all in how you write it, you need a hook (the septic tank), use of the active verb tense (to make the words jump from the page, i.e. tabloid composition instead of the more scholarly passive tense), and subtle indirection to suggest, but not actually say, that a wrongdoing happened and voila. A sensationalist article that the masses buy and run with.

Further reporting by other outlets add more sensationalist aspects, often without any attribution whatsoever as to where they came from (unnamed locals say blah blah or simply an allegation stated as fact), until the story leaves the news cycle. But if you go back after a few years and get an update on what official investigations found, it often ends up being a very different story.

How do you manage to maintain such a rational demeanor in the face of hysterics, so mind-numbingly consistently?

[Quick Karl]

You know, if you were REALLY concerned for the "environment" you would have purchased Incinolets or composting toilets...

Fucking hypocrites I swear.

[SciFiAuthor]

I was raised in a Roman Catholic orphanage, from when I was 7-years old, run by Franciscan Sisters, and I was educated by Jesuit teachers. In a Jesuit school, everyone gets A's, not because they are necessarily smart, but because they have no other choice. If another student was falling behind, it was OUR responsibility to get him or her up to speed (such tyranny I swear).

Lucky for me, there were no homosexual pedophiles pretending to be priests...

But the real issue is this - I am not religious, and do not believe in a God that has personal relationships with people, and I didn't for the entire time I was in the care of those evil Catholics, but they took good care of us, as if we were their own children whom they actually loved and wanted to have better lives, and they didn't view us "little kids" as inconveniences that should be flushed down the sewer, so they could keep fucking and partying...

To this very day, those Franciscan Sisters, and Jesuit Teachers, were the flat-out best people I have ever met, but I still do not go to church, yet I am not arrogant enough to say there "is" or "isn't" a God, because the fact is, no one can prove so, either way. And THAT is more honest "science" than anything one might expect from the so called "scientists from the left".

Funny isn't it. I went through 8 years of Catholic grade school. Nothing happened and the Dominican nuns and priests running it were the most professional and dedicated people I've ever known. I was light years ahead when I transitioned to public school. While I don't go to church or even believe the basic premises of Christianity, credit should be given where credit is due. The Catholics are some damned fine educators.

I haven't thought of a way to do it, but some day I'm going to write up a post about the liberals being gay haters for going after the nuns. Many of the ones I knew were clearly celibate lesbians. That's sort of the career path lesbians took back in the day. It'll be fun to see Pud steam over it.

[SciFiAuthor]

How do you manage to maintain such a rational demeanor in the face of hysterics, so mind-numbingly consistently?

Cause I know it drives them nuts. I love watching them rant and rave.

[Quick Karl]

Funny isn't it. I went through 8 years of Catholic grade school. Nothing happened and the Dominican nuns and priests running it were the most professional and dedicated people I've ever known. I was light years ahead when I transitioned to public school. While I don't go to church or even believe the basic premises of Christianity, credit should be given where credit is due. The Catholics are some damned fine educators.

I haven't thought of a way to do it, but some day I'm going to write up a post about the liberals being gay haters for going after the nuns. Many of the ones I knew were clearly celibate lesbians. That's sort of the career path lesbians took back in the day. It'll be fun to see Pud steam over it.

I'm think I am going to cry!

The folks that cared for me, and educated me, were the flat-out best people I have ever met. I remember after I was in that orphanage for about a year (I was about 8 then), I asked one of the Sisters "what is a Franciscan?". She, a wonderful, warm-hearted, unbelievably loving, and gentle older woman said: "a Franciscan dedicates their life to serving others."

Thinking back on that day, and comprehending just what she did with her life, I am awed more by her, than any politician that has ever lived.

One of the best things I have ever read in my life, written by a Dominican, was the Summa Theologica.

Many of the ones I knew were clearly celibate lesbians. That's sort of the career path lesbians took back in the day. It'll be fun to see Pud steam over it.

Sister Joanita - could kick the ass of every teen-aged boy in that orphanage, and I watched her do it! Wrestled some 16-yr old punk to the floor, sat on his chest, all dressed in her habit, and punched that idiot right in his face, like a man! They brought her in there, specifically for violence control - and she was a one-man, I mean one-sister, police force.

I was scared to death of her  but she was cool with me!

[paladin1991]

Sister Joanita - could kick the ass of every teen-aged boy in that orphanage, and I watched her do it! Wrestled some 16-yr old punk to the floor, sat on his chest, all dressed in her habit, and punched that idiot right in his face, like a man! They brought her in there, specifically for violence control - and she was a one-man, I mean one-sister, police force.

I love women like this.

[Quick Karl]

I love women like this.

She was always very cool with me - but I wasn't stupid enough to get on her bad side!

[bigchucka]

Sister Joanita - could kick the ass of every teen-aged boy in that orphanage, and I watched her do it! Wrestled some 16-yr old punk to the floor, sat on his chest, all dressed in her habit, and punched that idiot right in his face, like a man! They brought her in there, specifically for violence control - and she was a one-man, I mean one-sister, police force.

I was scared to death of her  but she was cool with me!

I just found a live version of this.  There's also an animated version of the CD on YouTube if you are interested.  They also do a George RR Martin/ Game Of Thrones song called Write Like The Wind.... and was in a comedy band called DaVinci's Notebook.  Ladies and Gentlemen... Paul and Storm.


http://youtu.be/inTdu4uegxQ

[SciFiAuthor]

She was always very cool with me - but I wasn't stupid enough to get on her bad side!

Nun stories are fun. True story: I graduated from catholic grade school in 1989, I was 13. The principal had been what I thought was an ancient nun back then. In 2012 I ran into her, she recognized me despite my being 36 years old at the time, and proceeded to ask how every member of my family was doing and getting every name right. She told me that she could remember every student that passed through her school. I had to know, so I asked how old she was. She laughed. She was 95. Now that's one hell of a sharp memory.

[SciFiAuthor]

I'm think I am going to cry!

The folks that cared for me, and educated me, were the flat-out best people I have ever met. I remember after I was in that orphanage for about a year (I was about 8 then), I asked one of the Sisters "what is a Franciscan?". She, a wonderful, warm-hearted, unbelievably loving, and gentle older woman said: "a Franciscan dedicates their life to serving others."

Thinking back on that day, and comprehending just what she did with her life, I am awed more by her, than any politician that has ever lived.

One of the best things I have ever read in my life, written by a Dominican, was the Summa Theologica.

Sister Joanita - could kick the ass of every teen-aged boy in that orphanage, and I watched her do it! Wrestled some 16-yr old punk to the floor, sat on his chest, all dressed in her habit, and punched that idiot right in his face, like a man! They brought her in there, specifically for violence control - and she was a one-man, I mean one-sister, police force.

I was scared to death of her  but she was cool with me!

Tough road, orphanages. It's wonderful that you had those Franciscans. The Dominicans were consummately professional teachers. Much like the Jesuits, they specialize in education ,and man, they ran a tight but very efficient school. Like your experience, the students were expected to help each other out and maintain an air of camaraderie. There was no such thing as bullying in that school because the priests and nuns knew precisely how to keep such a culture from forming up. It was astounding to see how different and shitty things were in the public school.

But the Dominicans weren't all business. We had a nun, one of the lesbians, Sr. Clara. She was a beanpole of a woman, still in her 20's back then, and could have played pro women's basketball. I mean, she was the best amateur basketball player I've ever run into. If you shot hoops with her on the opposing team, you lost. So for the guys, of course, if you were on the opposing team, your goal wasn't to win, but to pull Sr. Clara's veil off and try to slam dunk it.

[SciFiAuthor]

One of the best things I have ever read in my life, written by a Dominican, was the Summa Theologica.

Thomas Aquinas is an amazing read. Summa Theologica is as astonishing as a work of philosophy and commentary on the human perception of the universe as it is a theological argument. I've always found it funny that the liberals always brand the Christians as backwoods rubes clinging to their religion. That may be true with some of the evangelicals, but the Catholics have a weight of history and philosophy that frankly no one can come close to other than the ancient Greeks. The philosophical arrogance--or perhaps it's ignorance--of liberals is their biggest downfall. Sadly, most of them have no idea what their philosophy is based in. They wouldn't be liberals if they did.

[Quick Karl]

Thomas Aquinas is an amazing read. Summa Theologica is as astonishing as a work of philosophy and commentary on the human perception of the universe as it is a theological argument.

I wish I could have said it as well! I almost can't believe this dialogue is happening on bellgab! I have Summa Theologica on my Kindle, and an Audio version for when I am driving for some distance. I think it is time to give a good read, again, and, I will be driving to Texas in a few weeks so, I already know what I will be listening to for those endless hours of highway.

"Philosophy" to a liberal, is a Dilbert comic strip, or worse, something they get from Jon Stewart or the buffoon, Steven Colbert.

[Yorkshire pud]

Where exactly does it say they were starved to death? Your Mirror article specifically states disease, of which Ireland was rampant with at the time.

It doesn't, but I was citing other sources, notably a TV interview with an Irish TV journalist who is investigating the case. But seeing as you brought it up:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/children-at-tuam-home-were-emaciated-and-starved-30337248.html

Anyway, this is all probably just some sensationalist bullshit anyway.

That's strange: The disposal of aborted foetuses wasn't sensational bullshit in your mind, even when it was explained to you, you took the alleged moral high ground.

I'd imagine the local historian has a book written up and went to the media in hopes of promo. But if you take the mirror article and reduce it down to the bare facts, there isn't much left.

But it's much more than the Mirror article. The Mirror is only one paper and news outlet.

Just the discovery of a mass grave at a charity home for women rejected by their families during a time when mass graves were a norm. The selling point was the septic tank, or else the story would not have been newsworthy. It's all in how you write it, you need a hook (the septic tank), use of the active verb tense (to make the words jump from the page, i.e. tabloid composition instead of the more scholarly passive tense), and subtle indirection to suggest, but not actually say, that a wrongdoing happened and voila. A sensationalist article that the masses buy and run with.

The septic tank was the hook, yes..but the story is that over 800 children were buried without any form of recognition. And many died because they were neglected. The death rate was over four times the Irish average of the times between 1928-1961.

Further reporting by other outlets add more sensationalist aspects, often without any attribution whatsoever as to where they came from (unnamed locals say blah blah or simply an allegation stated as fact), until the story leaves the news cycle. But if you go back after a few years and get an update on what official investigations found, it often ends up being a very different story.

I'll remember all that when you rant about abortions.

[onan]

So, over 700 children, actual living (at some point) small human beings, died and were dumped in some sort of mass body storage/septic system? And this doesn't cause any concern because they were nuns? Seems to me something went completely off the tracks into sinister land... must be Obama's fault.

I wonder what those vigils looked like? I have a feeling the funerals were... let's just say quiet.

Face it, being a woman, pregnant, and unmarried is still a death sentence in some countries and was almost that bad in the US into the 70's. And never was the male part of the equation held to any such standard.

[UnscreenedCaller]

I
The septic tank was the hook, yes..but the story is that over 800 children were buried without any form of recognition. And many died because they were neglected. The death rate was over four times the Irish average of the times between 1928-1961.

I'll remember all that when you rant about abortions.

It's called denial, YP. It's like the dead people in 'The Sixth Sense' who see what they want to see:  long distance through rose colored glasses. Oh, Sister So and So was an incredible disciplarian or Sister Mary Fishface could really swing a bat. So what? I can parse a sentence the old-fashioned way but that doesn't mitigate in one way the fact that a so-called 'home' for unmarried mothers was run by an order of women who saw nothing wrong with disposing of tiny bodies in a septic tank which I suppose was considered a good Christian burial for those born on the wrong side of the blanket. And that's not even the problem. What happens to a body after death is nowhere as important as why that child died. I'd say 800 tiny bodies is cause for an investigation into the care they and their mothers received.

Mass graves in Ireland weren't the norm in 1961, in 1951, in 1941 and so on. But they were the norm, apparently, for the outcast and unaccepted.

I keep hearing rants on this thread about liberals. I don't understand why human rights is a liberal or conservative issue. I really don't get it at all. Like the Magdalene Laundries, or the current sexual abuse scandal, this isn't about politics. It's about addressing a wrong. The Irish government eventually apologized and compensated the Magdalene inhabitants. The various dioceses worldwide were sued successfully by survivors of abuse, not just for monetary compensation, but for justice and to expose widespread sexual abuse the church had covered up for decades. This is the same thing. This was abuse perpetrated by an order of nuns on young women and their children for the crime of becoming pregnant outside of marriage. It's about those nuns in Ireland in those particular times, and justice for those women and children,  not about  Sister Mary Fishface from St Earwig's school in downtown Topeka who may or may not fancy women as if anyone gives a flip.

Don't assume for one minute that a liberal political affiliation precludes one from having read Aquinas or any other church father, for that matter. The assumption that liberals are uneducated yahoos is at once laughable and exquisitely arrogant.

[NowhereInTime]

Thomas Aquinas is an amazing read. Summa Theologica is as astonishing as a work of philosophy and commentary on the human perception of the universe as it is a theological argument. I've always found it funny that the liberals always brand the Christians as backwoods rubes clinging to their religion. That may be true with some of the evangelicals, but the Catholics have a weight of history and philosophy that frankly no one can come close to other than the ancient Greeks. The philosophical arrogance--or perhaps it's ignorance--of liberals is their biggest downfall. Sadly, most of them have no idea what their philosophy is based in. They wouldn't be liberals if they did.

Sometimes I wonder if you guys really do live in a bubble:

https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/Inquisition.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crusades

http://www.catholic.com/tracts/the-galileo-controversy    (this particular one is great; it's a Catholic website which admits it persecuted Galileo, but that he wasn't really arguing for his view of the solar system and, oh by the way, it wasn't the judges' fault because scientists disagreed with Galileo, too!  Gee, I wonder why...)

http://americamagazine.org/issue/448/article/vatican-concordat-hitlers-reich

http://churchandstate.org.uk/what-we-do/expose-abuse-church/  (this was one of the more civilized overviews of this disaster...)


This is just the tip of the historical iceberg, and you're going to declare the wonder of Summa Theologica?  As if Aquinas, Ignatius, and Xavier are the true church and all of the other actors just mere anomalies?

You're right in one major regard; the Church has a hell of a lot of weight in history and philosophy...

[PB the Deplorable]

Yet you support Occupy, with the various drug dealing, dog attacks, rapes, and murders that went on in their little filth encrusted camps.

[NowhereInTime]

Yet you support Occupy, with the various drug dealing, dog attacks, rapes, and murders that went on in their little filth encrusted camps.

Occupy.  Again.  Now there's some ancient history.

Rapes?  Murders? Not on this side of the country; maybe in Oakland, but not in New York or Boston.

Drug dealing?  Really?  Because it didn't exist until Occupy Oakland?  Shit, even Ruteger's not that stupid.

Way to be a good conservative, by the way, by morally equating the Inquisition with "encrusted Occupy thug drug dealers."  Great perspective.

[PB the Deplorable]

Occupy.  Again.  Now there's some ancient history...

Um, the Inquisition and Crusades and most of the rest you referred to was 'ancient history'. 

Occupy will be back as soon as their handlers deem it useful.  Try to get a grip.

[Foodlion]

Occupy.  Again.  Now there's some ancient history.

Rapes?  Murders? Not on this side of the country; maybe in Oakland, but not in New York or Boston.

Drug dealing?  Really?  Because it didn't exist until Occupy Oakland?  Shit, even Ruteger's not that stupid.

Way to be a good conservative, by the way, by morally equating the Inquisition with "encrusted Occupy thug drug dealers."  Great perspective.

In truth a lot of conservatives did back Occupy's movement. The only bone they had with the movement was Occupy focused on Bush's fault, and not the current president.
I see both presidents are equals when it comes to banker fraud. Bill Clinton Signed in the Glass Eagle act, then under Bush the banker bailout happened, and under Obama the banker bailout happened AGAIN.

The next time you see Wall Street protests it's going to be a bi-partisan effort lol. Mark my words on that. Everyone's getting bit by the same snake, and only a fool would deny it this time.

Damn it's too early for me to do politics. ME neeeeds mooore cofffeeeee.

[NowhereInTime]

Um, the Inquisition and Crusades and most of the rest you referred to was 'ancient history'. 

Occupy will be back as soon as their handlers deem it useful.  Try to get a grip.

Yeah, again, you're the one equivocating the Crusades and the Inquisition with Occupy.  Try to get a grip on reality.

[PB the Deplorable]

In truth a lot of conservatives did back Occupy's movement. The only bone they had with the movement was Occupy focused on Bush's fault, and not the current president...

The Tea Party was formed before the end of Bush's term by regular normal people finally fed up with his spending and Big Government Republicanism.

When they got a bit of momentum, Occupy was largely set up to be a counterbalance to them.  Soros and Obama started talking about 'the 1%', and the word went out to the usual rent-a-mob collection of agitators - who had most recently been under the International Answer umbrella.

Of course they go out of their way to attract a few normal people - nurses, teachers, veterans, even a few mis-guided Conservatives.  These are the people they pose in front of the cameras.  Alinsky said in order to destroy the middle class, blend into the system and destroy it from within - so the first Occupy objective is to pretend it's just regular folks.

[NowhereInTime]

The Tea Party was formed before the end of Bush's term by regular normal people finally fed up with his spending and Big Government Republicanism.

If by "regular normal" you mean spoiled, whiny brats (which is a true conservative, so I guess for you, normal), then the world really is going to hell.

Oh, and

ALINSKY!

[SciFiAuthor]

It doesn't, but I was citing other sources, notably a TV interview with an Irish TV journalist who is investigating the case. But seeing as you brought it up:

http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/children-at-tuam-home-were-emaciated-and-starved-30337248.html

Once again, you're falling for the journalist's narrative:

"THE full extent of the horrendous conditions children were forced to live in at the Tuam mother-and-baby home, where up to 300 infants are buried, are revealed in an official inspector's report obtained by the Sunday Independent. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/children-at-tuam-home-were-emaciated-and-starved-30337248.html#sthash.sqlU8Fcp.dpuf"

That's in one paragraph. Then we have:

However, despite the shocking number of deaths, the report found that "the care given to infants in the Home is good, the Sisters are careful and attentive; diets are excellent. It is not here that we must look for cause of the death rate".The inspector raises the risk of infection being brought in from outside the home as one possible cause and raises concerns about a lack of an isolation unit. It also points out that there was no testing for venereal diseases and that the doctor caring for the kids was over 80 years old, and calls for a younger doctor with "more up-to-date knowledge" to be considered. - See more at: http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/news/children-at-tuam-home-were-emaciated-and-starved-30337248.html#sthash.sqlU8Fcp.dpuf

The whole thing sounds like Ireland of 1946 to me. The whole country.

That's strange: The disposal of aborted foetuses wasn't sensational bullshit in your mind, even when it was explained to you, you took the alleged moral high ground.

What I found shocking was that they were practicing soylent heating. That's something that a German concentration camp guard would think up, not the modern UK.

But it's much more than the Mirror article. The Mirror is only one paper and news outlet.

The septic tank was the hook, yes..but the story is that over 800 children were buried without any form of recognition. And many died because they were neglected. The death rate was over four times the Irish average of the times between 1928-1961.

The mirror started it, and it's now undergoing story shift as the media narrative continues. I want the witnesses, nuns, and investigation report when it's finished. I'll bet it's nothing close to what's being reported.

I'll remember all that when you rant about abortions.

I don't rant about abortions. I question them.

[PB the Deplorable]

If by "regular normal" you mean spoiled, whiny brats (which is a true conservative, so I guess for you, normal)...

No, I mean the people who actually make up the Tea Party - people who put in the effort to get an education, and/or start a business, and/or develop useful skills, who get up every day and go to work and are tired of being over taxed and scorned as 'the rich' - when they aren't 'rich' but have earned every penny. 

The people who built and are building the country, not tearing it down.  And, oh yeah, are tired of being constantly told what to do by people whose only real skill is getting themselves elected or appointed to public office.


The greedy bratty whiney takers are the Libs, and certainly the Occupy types.

[NowhereInTime]

No, I mean the people who actually make up the Tea Party - people who put in the effort to get an education, and/or start a business, and/or develop useful skills, who get up every day and go to work and are tired of being over taxed and scorned as 'the rich' - when they aren't 'rich' but have earned every penny. 

The people who built and are building the country, not tearing it down.  And, oh yeah, are tired of being constantly told what to do by people whose only real skill is getting themselves elected or appointed to public office.


The greedy bratty whiney takers are the Libs, and certainly the Occupy types.

No, the actual Tea baggers are the ones who claim to be makers but are actually the biggest takers.  Hell if it ain't nailed down, they'll take it. 

You are so fucking naive; you have no idea how most of these people built their fortunes.  Dodging taxes, shorting workers, screwing vendors, cheating customers; these are the paragons of virtue at whose feet you worship?

And you want them to run this country?!?

Fucking clown.

[PB the Deplorable]

No, the actual Tea baggers are the ones who claim to be makers but are actually the biggest takers.  Hell if it ain't nailed down, they'll take it. 

You are so fucking naive; you have no idea how most of these people built their fortunes.  Dodging taxes, shorting workers, screwing vendors, cheating customers; these are the paragons of virtue at whose feet you worship?

And you want them to run this country?!?

Fucking clown.

I'm glad you finally got it through your noggin that all Republicans aren't Conservatives. 

Your next lesson is to try to grasp the idea that most businesses aren't run the way Wall Street is run.  They aren't in cahoots with Big Government.  In fact a major part of what the crony capitalists do is game things in order to make it extremely difficult for everyone else to compete with them.



I don't know who got to you, but they sure did a number on you.

The Tea Party is not the greedy international Fortune 500 Corporations - they don't need the Tea Party when they already have the Democrats and the RINO Republicans.  Do they.

The people in the Tea Party are mostly owners and employees of small and medium sized businesses, like the ones found in our communities.  Many are family owned and operated or are closely held.  Some have brought in outside investors to provide capital for expansion.  The man reasons these companies have become successful is by treating their employees well, treating their customers well, and treating their suppliers well.

There are other Tea Party supporters who work for larger companies, but they aren't the top execs, they're just people getting up in the morning and doing their job. 


Yeah, there are tax cheats and bad apples everywhere.  Guess what, they don't give a hoot about the country, they aren't going to bother supporting the Tea Party.  Heck, look at the tax cheats in Congress - most of them the past decade or so have been Democrats.  Look at all the tax cheats Obama appointed.  Look at the reports of all the tax cheats working for the IRS, of all places.  How many Conservatives do you think would work for the IRS?   Sheesh.

Yeah, a few wealthy concerned Americans have supported the Tea Party.  And you've been told these are the Evil Capitalists.  They aren't.  But if you want to see an Evil Capitalist, look no further than your own George Soros.

[Yorkshire pud]

I'm glad you finally got it through your noggin that all Republicans aren't Conservatives. 

Your next lesson is to try to grasp the idea that most businesses aren't run the way Wall Street is run.  They aren't in cahoots with Big Government.  In fact a major part of what the crony capitalists do is game things in order to make it extremely difficult for everyone else to compete with them.

No shit Sherlock.

The Tea Party is not the greedy international Fortune 500 Corporations - they don't need the Tea Party when they already have the Democrats and the RINO Republicans.  Do they.

The people in the Tea Party are mostly owners and employees of small and medium sized businesses, like the ones found in our communities. 

So where do the Koch brothers fit in that? small/medium/community?

Yeah, a few wealthy concerned Americans have supported the Tea Party.  And you've been told these are the Evil Capitalists.  They aren't.  But if you want to see an Evil Capitalist, look no further than your own George Soros.

So the Koch brothers are fine upstanding paragons of family business? Who knew that?

[PB the Deplorable]

No shit Sherlock...

Very basic things need to be explained to Nowhere sometimes

... So the Koch brothers are fine upstanding paragons of family business? Who knew that?

Now you know.  You're welcome.

You're another one who would benefit from looking beyond what you're being spoon fed