the U.S. is in fact an oligarchy and not a democracy.

[wr250]

"Researchers from Princeton University and Northwestern University have concluded, after extensive analysis of 1,779 policy issues, that the U.S. is in fact an oligarchy and not a democracy. What this means is that, although 'Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance,' 'majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts.' Their study (PDF), to be published in Perspectives on Politics, found that 'When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.'"

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/14/04/16/0221210/study-finds-us-is-an-oligarchy-not-a-democracy


original princeton paper (pdf)

[Yorkshire pud]

No real surprises there; What is surprising is it took so long to do a study on it...Money talks, power corrupts..Money AND power will always buy influence. It's how it's always been.

[FightTheFuture]

"Researchers from Princeton University and Northwestern University have concluded, after extensive analysis of 1,779 policy issues, that the U.S. is in fact an oligarchy and not a democracy. What this means is that, although 'Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance,' 'majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts.' Their study (PDF), to be published in Perspectives on Politics, found that 'When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.'"

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/14/04/16/0221210/study-finds-us-is-an-oligarchy-not-a-democracy


original princeton paper (pdf)

Professor Gilens concluded that people near the top of the economic spectrum have more influence on policy than those near the bottom.

Wow. That is stunning. I would never have guessed that.

[West of the Rockies]

The U.S. Is an oligarchy... And in other news, water is reported to be wet.

[NowhereInTime]

Accelerated by the fact that we eliminated the inheritance tax and the 50% tax bracket on people who get to pay themselves 9 figure salaries.
Well done, conservatives.  Bunch of tories.

[wr250]

Accelerated by the fact that we eliminated the inheritance tax and the 50% tax bracket on people who get to pay themselves 9 figure salaries.
Well done, conservatives.  Bunch of tories.

how about just eliminating tax loopholes. for instance pres. 0bama  paid a effective tax rate of 20.4% for the 2013 tax year. he is in the 39.6% tax bracket (the highest).

[NowhereInTime]

how about just eliminating tax loopholes. for instance pres. 0bama  paid a effective tax rate of 20.4% for the 2013 tax year. he is in the 39.6% tax bracket (the highest).

Good.

[PB the Deplorable]

how about just eliminating tax loopholes. for instance pres. 0bama  paid a effective tax rate of 20.4% for the 2013 tax year. he is in the 39.6% tax bracket (the highest).

I wonder if he files a return for each of the social security numbers he uses, or just the one he's using now.

[FightTheFuture]

how about just eliminating tax loopholes. for instance pres. 0bama  paid a effective tax rate of 20.4% for the 2013 tax year. he is in the 39.6% tax bracket (the highest).

Well, that's not very fair.

[SciFiAuthor]

I wonder if he files a return for each of the social security numbers he uses, or just the one he's using now.

I would usually debunk this much like the birth certificate questions. It's sort of a dead end, meaning that you can't really prove it for whatever reason. After digging in, it does appear that the guy was born in Hawaii. But he was ambiguously born in Hawaii. Yet we have more ambiguity with his social security number. I saw your post and wasn't aware of questions about his SS number, but when I went looking and expected to find a solid debunking I see Snopes debunking it but saying:

"Why Barack Obama's Social Security card application might have included a Connecticut mailing address is something of a curiosity, as he had no known connection to that state at the time, but by itself that quirk is no indicator of fraud. The most likely explanation for the discrepancy is a simple clerical or typographical error"

Not exactly a satisfying debunk. Can one of the liberals give me something more solid?

[onan]

I would usually debunk this much like the birth certificate questions. It's sort of a dead end, meaning that you can't really prove it for whatever reason. After digging in, it does appear that the guy was born in Hawaii. But he was ambiguously born in Hawaii. Yet we have more ambiguity with his social security number. I saw your post and wasn't aware of questions about his SS number, but when I went looking and expected to find a solid debunking I see Snopes debunking it but saying:

"Why Barack Obama's Social Security card application might have included a Connecticut mailing address is something of a curiosity, as he had no known connection to that state at the time, but by itself that quirk is no indicator of fraud. The most likely explanation for the discrepancy is a simple clerical or typographical error"

Not exactly a satisfying debunk. Can one of the liberals give me something more solid?

This argument of the authenticity of Obama's place of birth has worn me into the "I really don't give a fuck what you think... you're fuckin crazy" zone.

But to finish the typo explanation...

The most likely explanation for the discrepancy is a simple clerical or typographical error: the ZIP code in the area of Honolulu where Barack Obama lived at the time he applied for his Social Security number in 1977 is 96814, while the ZIP code for Danbury, Connecticut, is 06814. Since '0' and '9' are similarly shaped numbers and are adjacent on typewriter keyboards, it's not uncommon for handwritten examples to be mistaken for each other, or for one to be mistyped as the other (thereby potentially resulting in a Hawaiian resident's application mistakenly being routed as if it had originated from Connecticut).

[someguy]

no shit

[UnscreenedCaller]

"Researchers from Princeton University and Northwestern University have concluded, after extensive analysis of 1,779 policy issues, that the U.S. is in fact an oligarchy and not a democracy. What this means is that, although 'Americans do enjoy many features central to democratic governance,' 'majorities of the American public actually have little influence over the policies our government adopts.' Their study (PDF), to be published in Perspectives on Politics, found that 'When the preferences of economic elites and the stands of organized interest groups are controlled for, the preferences of the average American appear to have only a minuscule, near-zero, statistically non-significant impact upon public policy.'"

http://politics.slashdot.org/story/14/04/16/0221210/study-finds-us-is-an-oligarchy-not-a-democracy


original princeton paper (pdf)

Yep. And it shouldn't come as a big shock to anyone, either. Money talks. Loudly.

[UnscreenedCaller]

This argument of the authenticity of Obama's place of birth has worn me into the "I really don't give a fuck what you think... you're fuckin crazy" zone.

I take the "Knock yourself out." attitude. All the blathering accomplishes nothing, I don't care what birthers think or what passes for thinking at any rate, and it keeps them off the streets and out of trouble. In the meantime, life goes on and Obama is still in office. The only beneficiaries as far as I can tell are the ad sense companies that get revenue from the conspiracy websites.

[NowhereInTime]

I would usually debunk this much like the birth certificate questions. It's sort of a dead end, meaning that you can't really prove it for whatever reason. After digging in, it does appear that the guy was born in Hawaii. But he was ambiguously born in Hawaii. Yet we have more ambiguity with his social security number. I saw your post and wasn't aware of questions about his SS number, but when I went looking and expected to find a solid debunking I see Snopes debunking it but saying:

"Why Barack Obama's Social Security card application might have included a Connecticut mailing address is something of a curiosity, as he had no known connection to that state at the time, but by itself that quirk is no indicator of fraud. The most likely explanation for the discrepancy is a simple clerical or typographical error"

Not exactly a satisfying debunk. Can one of the liberals give me something more solid?

Well, 'toons, for one thing what the Hell is an "ambiguous" birth?  Was his mom hiding in a cloak in the dead of night?  Is he a dumpster baby?  Is he really the Hate Child of Idi Amin and Jane Fonda?!?!?
Will the ambiguities never cease?!?

[Juan]

I'm old enough to remember what air travel was like in the early 1960s.  It was slow with lots of layovers.  While we did have jet passenger planes, they were few in number and had much shorter range than today's passenger planes.  The idea that a woman in an advanced state of pregnancy traveled from Hawaii to Kenya (both remote locations), and then back with a small baby is preposterous, IMHO.

The Social Security number is strange.  The card had a "Connecticut mailing address."  Maybe I'm reading too much into it, but that seems more than just a Connecticut zip code - though Onan's explanation certainly makes sense. We've learned Mr. Obama lived in various places with relatives we didn't know about earlier - maybe he was living with a relative in Connecticut.  I don't think there's anything nefarious about this - just strange.

[FightTheFuture]

I don`t much care about Obama`s shady, secretive past. That ship has sailed. However, I will say this; there is absolutely no way -- no way -- that Obama wrote his memoir "Dreams From My Father". For my money, that makes Obama a complete fraud.

Who wrote Obama`s books? Well, Dr. Jack Cashill and others are pretty certain it was Bill Ayers. I`ve never read Ayers` stuff, but I have read Obama`s Dreams, and I`ve read Cashill`s book, Deconstructing Obama, and Cashill lays out an air-tight case. I would challenge anyone to dispute it.

A short video here gives a fairly cogent, albeit condensed, presentation.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ofxJtwQV4IY

[Yorkshire pud]

I don`t much care about Obama`s shady, secretive past. That ship has sailed. However, I will say this; there is absolutely no way -- no way -- that Obama wrote his memoir "Dreams From My Father". For my money, that makes Obama a complete fraud.

Hey, you tell people you're a Christian, so that's your claim to not being entirely honest. Obama doesn't write books, woopeeedoo.

[FightTheFuture]

Hey, you tell people you're a Christian, so that's your claim to not being entirely honest. Obama doesn't write books, woopeeedoo.

[SciFiAuthor]

This argument of the authenticity of Obama's place of birth has worn me into the "I really don't give a fuck what you think... you're fuckin crazy" zone.

But to finish the typo explanation...

I suppose, but you're talking about the Social Security Administration as opposed to junk mail. It's a claim that the 1960's SSA was sloppy. That in itself seems like an awfully big claim begging for a debunk.

That said, I'm not a birther. I was satisfied by the Hawaiian newspaper article announcing his birth. However in the end Barack Obama does seem to win the award for the American with the most ambiguous, screwy paperwork in the country.

[PB the Deplorable]

... Obama doesn't write books, woopeeedoo.

Well, maybe.  One of the reasons we were all supposed to vote for a complete unknown with no accomplishments was because he was just so smart.  How did we know he was so smart? - because, we were told, his book was written extremely well for someone with little writing experience just sitting down to do an autobiog.


Just another lie from Mr. Catch-me-if-you-can

[NowhereInTime]

Well, maybe.  One of the reasons we were all supposed to vote for a complete unknown with no accomplishments was because he was just so smart.  How did we know he was so smart? - because, we were told, his book was written extremely well for someone with little writing experience just sitting down to do an autobiog.


Just another lie from Mr. Catch-me-if-you-can

No, we voted for him because he wasn't a run-of-the-mill dem like Hillary or a head's-up-the-ass conservative like, well, everybody on the right these days.
If John Kerry hadn't had Ohio stolen from him by Diebold and J. Kenneth Blackwell you would've never had Obama.   Sometimes you guys are too clever for your own good.

[PB the Deplorable]

I suppose, but you're talking about the Social Security Administration as opposed to junk mail. It's a claim that the 1960's SSA was sloppy. That in itself seems like an awfully big claim begging for a debunk.

That said, I'm not a birther. I was satisfied by the Hawaiian newspaper article announcing his birth. However in the end Barack Obama does seem to win the award for the American with the most ambiguous, screwy paperwork in the country.

My birth was announced in the local paper where my grandparents lived and where my parents grew up, even though we lived 2 states away. 

I don't think that was uncommon, at least back when most people subscribed to the local paper.

[Quick Karl]

America is an Oligarchy? Fuck, even a few of the blistering idiots on Bellgab can comprehend that -- it doesn't take a Princeton and Northwestern Scholar to acknowledge it with a 45-page brief, unless you're a stupid moron ass-lick that doesn't give common sense any credibility unless some bored douche in a University spent a year writing a paper on it, so they could get a grant (i.e. MORE of YOUR money).

From Platoon:

King: Hey, Taylor. How in the fuck you get here anyway? Why, you look educated.
Chris Taylor: I volunteered for it.
King: You did what?
Chris Taylor: I volunteered. I dropped out of college, and told them I wanted the infantry, combat, and Vietnam.
Crawford: You volunteered for this shit, man?
Chris Taylor: You believe that?
King: You's a crazy fucker, giving up college.
Chris Taylor: It didn't make much sense. I wasn't learning anything. I figured why should just the poor kids go off to war and the rich kids always get away with it?
King: Oh, I see. What we got here is a crusader.
Crawford: Sounds like it.
King: Shit. You gotta be rich in the first place to think like that. Everybody know the poor are always being fucked over by the rich. Always have, always will.

All the people fucking this country, have University degrees, while genuine CITIZEN working people are just struggling to survive.

I hope a Mao comes to America, and we have an American Cultural Revolution.

It cannot happen soon enough.

[NowhereInTime]

America is an Oligarchy? Fuck, even a few of the blistering idiots on Bellgab can comprehend that -- it doesn't take a Princeton and Northwestern Scholar to acknowledge it with a 45-page brief, unless you're a stupid moron ass-lick that doesn't give common sense any credibility unless some bored douche in a University spent a year writing a paper on it, so they could get a grant (i.e. MORE of YOUR money).

From Platoon:

King: Hey, Taylor. How in the fuck you get here anyway? Why, you look educated.
Chris Taylor: I volunteered for it.
King: You did what?
Chris Taylor: I volunteered. I dropped out of college, and told them I wanted the infantry, combat, and Vietnam.
Crawford: You volunteered for this shit, man?
Chris Taylor: You believe that?
King: You's a crazy fucker, giving up college.
Chris Taylor: It didn't make much sense. I wasn't learning anything. I figured why should just the poor kids go off to war and the rich kids always get away with it?
King: Oh, I see. What we got here is a crusader.
Crawford: Sounds like it.
King: Shit. You gotta be rich in the first place to think like that. Everybody know the poor are always being fucked over by the rich. Always have, always will.

All the people fucking this country, have University degrees, while genuine CITIZEN working people are just struggling to survive.

I hope a Mao comes to America, and we have an American Cultural Revolution.

It cannot happen soon enough.

Thank you for the enjoyable interlude from Platoon.  It added value to an otherwise useless rant.  I heard the FBI & ICE intercepted a cargo container full of underage sex workers.  Must be frustrating,  but spare us, ok?

[Juan]

At times, I think it's a kakistocracy.

[NowhereInTime]

At times, I think it's a kakistocracy.

Maybe, but it's a function of who wants to be there the most. Same applies to business.  Who's really qualified? Failures at GM right now are b the latest example.

[albrecht]

I suppose, but you're talking about the Social Security Administration as opposed to junk mail. It's a claim that the 1960's SSA was sloppy. That in itself seems like an awfully big claim begging for a debunk.

That said, I'm not a birther. I was satisfied by the Hawaiian newspaper article announcing his birth. However in the end Barack Obama does seem to win the award for the American with the most ambiguous, screwy paperwork in the country.

What is so odd about this character Obama was the hesitancy to provide any documents and reluctance to provide documentation on his past, travels, etc. In 10min I could go a provide a birth certificate (not even just a copy but one that complies with the Hague Convention and apostilled) and my passport (showing stamps of where I have lived or travelled). Anyone whoever lived or worked in signatory countries, mainly European, has to provide an apostile on their birth certificate. Yet, this guy took months to even come up with an unofficial copy (not apostilled, not compliant with Hague Convention.) I'm not saying he wasn't born in Hawaii. Likely was. But who knows? The only lady who claimed she saw the real document died in a plane wreck, only death involved in wreck.

But what is telling and odd is the timing of why it took so long for this character Obama to even release a copy? And why not one compliant with the Hague Treaty (his party used to brag about "global tests")? And nothing on his school career but vague claims (show the funding, grades, papers, scholarships, affirmative action details, etc.)?

[VtaGeezer]

I'm not saying he wasn't born in Hawaii.

Sure you are. 

[Jackstar]

Y'all know that the official who authenticated Obama's birth certificate... was ushered into the job a few months prior, and then shortly thereafter, mysteriously died in a mysterious plane crash?

I am simply mystified that some of You People do not see these things, for what they are. Truly, truly mystifying.