Proof Conservatives Know They're Done

[PB the Deplorable]

...  I'm sorry, did Beijing call to repossess San Francisco?

I mean, the very idea that you believe this country's existence is threatened by owed money shows where your priorities really lie...

You really don't know how economics works, do you.

What do you think happens when no one will buy any more of our debt?  Or demand a premium?  Or demand it be repaid in currency other than dollars?  Or do you think we can just go on, borrowing ever more trillions for the foreseeable future?

Or when we can't pay our bills?  Look at the various cities and states that owe so much in pensions they have to cut back on services.  That's only going to get worse.  What will bankruptcy of states and local governments look like?

Or when interest takes up most or all of our taxes?  What happens to our budget when interest rates goes up to 5 or 10% or more?

Do you think we will avoid the fate of other countries who have done this before us just because we are 'America'?  Are you even aware of what has happened in the past?


We had an incredible country - free, more opportunity than any before us, tolerant, welcoming, we led the world in wealth creation, education, science, technology, commerce, manufacturing, food production.  We've drawn the best and brightest from all over the world.  And it's being causally thrown away.  For no real reason.  Sad.

[SciFiAuthor]

We had an incredible country - free, more opportunity than any before us, tolerant, welcoming, we led the world in wealth creation, education, science, technology, commerce, manufacturing, food production.  We've drawn the best and brightest from all over the world.  And it's being causally thrown away.  For no real reason.  Sad.

Oh come now Paper. We're throwing it away for equality, social progress and the environment! Get with the picture and reduce your carbon footprint by living a less affluent life. The president says so, and knows all because he's not a rich white guy and couldn't possibly be fucking up and Pelosi's a genius because she told us that a reduction to part-time saves us from job-lock. Wow! This economics stuff makes sense now! I mean, we can't possibly vote the other way and save ourselves from national . . . poverty because those racist bastards . . . will take our abortions away . . . Oh . . . look . . . Miley Cyrus is on TV again . . .

[NowhereInTime]

I'm strongly considering no longer generating taxable income just so I don't have to support any more of it.

Yes, the conservative "take my ball and go home" response to not getting their way.

[NowhereInTime]

Oh come now Paper. We're throwing it away for equality, social progress and the environment! Get with the picture and reduce your carbon footprint by living a less affluent life. The president says so, and knows all because he's not a rich white guy and couldn't possibly be fucking up and Pelosi's a genius because she told us that a reduction to part-time saves us from job-lock. Wow! This economics stuff makes sense now! I mean, we can't possibly vote the other way and save ourselves from national . . . poverty because those racist bastards . . . will take our abortions away . . . Oh . . . look . . . Miley Cyrus is on TV again . . .

Yeah, Sci-Fi scribbler, you're not a conservative.  Funny, you can snark and bellyache with the best of them.

[NowhereInTime]

You really don't know how economics works, do you.

What do you think happens when no one will buy any more of our debt?  Or demand a premium?  Or demand it be repaid in currency other than dollars?  Or do you think we can just go on, borrowing ever more trillions for the foreseeable future?

Or when we can't pay our bills?  Look at the various cities and states that owe so much in pensions they have to cut back on services.  That's only going to get worse.  What will bankruptcy of states and local governments look like?

Or when interest takes up most or all of our taxes?  What happens to our budget when interest rates goes up to 5 or 10% or more?

Do you think we will avoid the fate of other countries who have done this before us just because we are 'America'?  Are you even aware of what has happened in the past?


We had an incredible country - free, more opportunity than any before us, tolerant, welcoming, we led the world in wealth creation, education, science, technology, commerce, manufacturing, food production.  We've drawn the best and brightest from all over the world.  And it's being causally thrown away.  For no real reason.  Sad.

I know exactly how economics works, which is why I drown you with statistics and constantly call CLOWNSHOES on you!!!!  It's you who hasn't a clue!!

When exactly is the day that US debt, about the hottest (and safest) investment property in the world, going to go unpurchased?  Do you have any idea how debt service works?  We are still offering interest rates under 1% and treasuries sell out every time!!! You sound as if we have accrued this horrendous pile of obligation and it all needs to paid off at once!  How naive are you?!?

When exactly is the renminbi going to replace the dollar?  China's massive economic expansion is being curtailed by two things: 1) government forces cooling off the expansion and 2) out of control projects that are bearing no fruit, like entire cities being built with no occupants.  Not to mention China is quarreling with the Philippines over oil in the South China sea beacuse they HAVE NO fossil fuels (besides the coal choking Beijing every day) to sustain their economy.  Pernod Ricard just posted a hideous 12% drop in China sales, precisely because the gov't there ordered its well-heeled to draw down their consumption.  Would never happen here, and its why China is a paper tiger.

I think American state and municipal bankruptcies are being averted by smart, capable people like Jerry Brown, who has turned the fiscal tide in CA and here in CT, our 2.3 billion debt from last year this year yielded a 500 million surplus, thanks to some cutting and a lot of revenue enhancement (like tax amnesty).  It's only the naysayers like you who say it can't be fixed.

Finally, there you go again (to borrow one of your hero's stock-in-trades) pining about America's decline.  I submit that if conservatives had never reached power in the 80's, we would still be that shining city upon the hill.  You cut education.  You sent jobs overseas.  You denigrate fellow citizens on hard times. You conduct voter suppression. You run scurrilous campaigns besmirching a man's love of his country because his father was a foreigner and his preacher bemoans 400 years of inequality.

The America of Jim Crow and white hegemony was never as incredible as you think it was because it left too many behind.  What's going to be amazing is as this century unfolds and the last of the boomers die off to see how these bright young millenials, unfettered by the shackles of class and race hatred will create new and exciting ways to enhance American standards of living.  All inclusive inventions like Facebook and Google are but a hint of what people who aren't hung up on preserving class or race distinctions can and will do this next century.

Hopefully you won't be around long enough to crap all over it.

[SciFiAuthor]

Yeah, Sci-Fi scribbler, you're not a conservative.  Funny, you can snark and bellyache with the best of them.

Wait until they get the presidency back (if ever). Then you'll think I'm a liberal.

[SciFiAuthor]

Alright Nowhere, I'll throw you a bone. You're almost right. The shining city on the hill would still be shining if it weren't for a certain republican president. But it wasn't Reagan. It was George H. W. Bush and his incessant push for free trade. They've quieted down about it in recent years, but Republicans (other than a certain vocal anti-NAFTA crowd on the right) were at one point very much sold on free trade. They sounded like the Libertarians, all wrapped up in this myth that the US can sell a $250 widget to a guy that makes $1 a week.

The net effect of free trade has been to export both jobs and wealth from the US at an alarming rate with comparatively little returning. It allows anyone with a treaty, such as China, to raid the US economy without thought to long-term economic stability. It is also a complete 180 from the Republican Party's historical position of protectionism. However, Clinton and his Democratic Congress were fully complicit in this and deserve their own set of criticisms on the issue.

The two biggest blunders the US has made as far as policy in the last 50 years has been free trade agreements and Obamacare. Those two things will keep the US economy down indefinitely if change does not happen. You must have a middle class spending money, and those two policies are sapping the money out of people's pockets.

[SciFiAuthor]

I'll toss out another one to get everybody fighting. Gay marriage. The Republicans/Conservatives are inconsistent on this issue. You can't claim to be for less government interference in people's lives and then call for government interference in people's lives. It's simply a wedge issue used to appease the religious right.

The left uses it to appease their gay rights voters.

In fact, it should be a non-issue. The solution is clear. Government has no business telling any adult that they can't get married to whomever other adult they wish. The government should be informed of marriage for legal purposes, it should not be issuing licenses. We should be focused on taking that power from them.

The end result is that it's up to the religions and sea captains and justices of the peace to decide whom they will perform the ceremony for. The gay people will certainly have their supporters that will do it. The other religions might not like it, but let them bicker about it. The conservatives should be appeased, or at least silenced, because the whole thing removes a power from the government.

Voila.

[NowhereInTime]

Alright Nowhere, I'll throw you a bone. You're almost right. The shining city on the hill would still be shining if it weren't for a certain republican president. But it wasn't Reagan. It was George H. W. Bush and his incessant push for free trade. They've quieted down about it in recent years, but Republicans (other than a certain vocal anti-NAFTA crowd on the right) were at one point very much sold on free trade. They sounded like the Libertarians, all wrapped up in this myth that the US can sell a $250 widget to a guy that makes $1 a week.

The net effect of free trade has been to export both jobs and wealth from the US at an alarming rate with comparatively little returning. It allows anyone with a treaty, such as China, to raid the US economy without thought to long-term economic stability. It is also a complete 180 from the Republican Party's historical position of protectionism. However, Clinton and his Democratic Congress were fully complicit in this and deserve their own set of criticisms on the issue.

The two biggest blunders the US has made as far as policy in the last 50 years has been free trade agreements and Obamacare. Those two things will keep the US economy down indefinitely if change does not happen. You must have a middle class spending money, and those two policies are sapping the money out of people's pockets.

I agree about NAFTA.  I have always been ambivalent about Clinton's presidency because of NAFTA, DOMA, the Telecom Act of 1996, the repeal of Glass Steagall.  Anyone calling Clinton ("Don't Ask Don't Tell") a "Lib" paid no attention to his presidency.
I beg to differ with Reagan.  With a wink and a nod, some flowery Peggy Noonan prose and the killer instincts of Lee Atwater he turned this nation on a decidedly "self-interested", less civic minded course.  He brought about the downfall of unions by terminating the air traffic controllers without consequence.  He broke the law with Iran Contra and "aw shucks"ed his way out of it. His deregulation of M&A destroyed competition and permitted the slaughter of good paying American jobs through "streamlining".  The "Reagan Recovery" was spearheaded by tremendous deficit spending, mostly on defense, that has never been reeled back by any administration since. (But somehow that's all Barry's fault).  His foreign policy was disastrous (goading Iran Iraq war to sell arms to both sides, Marines in Beirut, failure to attempt nuclear arms reduction with Gorbachev) and he was oversold on his great triumphs: the recapture of Grenada and the bombing of Libya.
Reagan did nothing to help anyone who wasn't already able to help themselves: taxing Social Security benefits and "ketchup is a vegetable" are two that come straight to mind. 
I actually thought GHWB genuinely tried to make the world a better place.  He completely abdicated responsibility for the US economy, why he lost, but his coaltion building for Desert Shield was a model of success, and I think NAFTA, though I hate it, was a genuine attempt to make the northern western hemisphere an economic bloc of unbeatable influence.  It's too bad Mexico's ruinous corruption negated that.

[PB the Deplorable]

I know exactly how economics works, which is why I drown you with statistics and constantly call CLOWNSHOES on you!!!!  It's you who hasn't a clue!!...

... smart, capable people like Jerry Brown...

You don't know a thing other than what the America hating Leftists like Daily Chaos tell you.  Clearly. 

The more detailed your posts are, the clearer your selective ignorance is.


Yes, Jerry Brown is the rare non-Progressive that hasn't been purged from todays 'leadership' in the Democrat Party.  He used to be more Liberal than his party, now he's far to their right and about the only one capable of making intelligent decisions anymore.  Shows us how far Leftward that party had drifted over the past few decades.

... Finally, there you go again (to borrow one of your hero's stock-in-trades) pining about America's decline.  I submit that if conservatives had never reached power in the 80's, we would still be that shining city upon the hill.  You cut education.  You sent jobs overseas.  You denigrate fellow citizens on hard times. You conduct voter suppression. You run scurrilous campaigns besmirching a man's love of his country because his father was a foreigner and his preacher bemoans 400 years of inequality...

Nothing was cut in the 80s.  Zero.  The projected rate of increase was cut back a little in some things - only in DC is that considered a 'cut'.  That's not to say much should not have been cut - it should have been.  Once again the D-rats stood in the way of common sense.  Please tell me what the value is in a Federal Education Dept, and why they should have taken decision making power away from parents and teachers?


Are you really saying Reagan was a destructive President and Obama is a good one in the same post?  That is so laughable on any and every level that I'm not even going to bother refuting it - other than to say that must be why Obama's approval rating is 30-some percent and Reagan won landslides that included nearly all Independent voters and a good number of 'Reagan Democrats'.  You might want to ask yourself what everyone else knows that you don't.


I would suggest someone whose best friend and mentor is an unrepentant 60s terrorist does not love this country.  I would suggest someone whose father figure and other mentor preached a constant stream of hate toward the US doesn't love the country.  Nor does someone who states he wants to 'fundamentally change this nation' - if he wanted to fundamentally change it, he must think there must be something fundamentally wrong with it, right? 

If he loved the country so much, why the gross lack of respect for the limits to his office?

Or how about Mooch-elle:  'for the first time in my life I'm proud of my country'. 

Sorry, they don't love the country, just the opposite.  Same with the rest of the Progressives - always telling us how corrupt and greedy everyone but them are, how racist the country is.  If someone loves their country, why all the lies, why the constant drumbeat of the worst accusations possible?

...  What's going to be amazing is as this century unfolds and the last of the boomers die off to see how these bright young millenials, unfettered by the shackles of class and race hatred will create new and exciting ways to enhance American standards of living.  All inclusive inventions like Facebook and Google are but a hint of what people who aren't hung up on preserving class or race distinctions can and will do this next century.

Hopefully you won't be around long enough to crap all over it.

I agree with the parts of this that aren't about your hate and ignorance. 

It's true that IF the government stays out of the way of entrepreneurs, inventors, venture capitalists, and risk takers, America will continue to be the America we know.  If people like Obama have their way, we will fall by the wayside, the way much of Western Europe has. 

Listen to yourselves - millions of jobs lost are a 'good thing', because of your new pet term:  'job lock'.  You see more people dependent and getting handouts and subsidies as success, and a strong economy as due to 'greed'.  How sick is that?  Here's a clue - that mindset isn't going to get us anywhere, and it's why there won't be much of a recovery until Obama is dumped and replaced by someone with some sense.

As far as class and race hatred, not only did that come out of the Democratic Party historically, not only did they fight a war to continue it, and resist change, but right up to today they are the ones out counting noses, putting people in categories, and telling certain people they can't make it in our society.

I'm delighted you 'Progressives' are losing your battle to divide us by race. 


And by the way:  Facebook?  Really?

[ItsOver]

...And by the way:  Facebook?  Really?

Hey, P*B, who doesn't want to know what Buffy had for lunch?    I can't get enough of "awesome" and "yummy."

[SciFiAuthor]

I agree about NAFTA.  I have always been ambivalent about Clinton's presidency because of NAFTA, DOMA, the Telecom Act of 1996, the repeal of Glass Steagall.  Anyone calling Clinton ("Don't Ask Don't Tell") a "Lib" paid no attention to his presidency.

I agree on all of those issues, and that Clinton was not really as liberal as people seemed to believe on both sides. Hillary isn't either, during the 2008 election it was pointed out rightly that she had a more conservative voting record in the senate than John McCain. The Clintons are really just deal-cutting political animals being as crooked as politicians can get away with without going to jail.

I beg to differ with Reagan.  With a wink and a nod, some flowery Peggy Noonan prose and the killer instincts of Lee Atwater he turned this nation on a decidedly "self-interested", less civic minded course.  He brought about the downfall of unions by terminating the air traffic controllers without consequence.  He broke the law with Iran Contra and "aw shucks"ed his way out of it. His deregulation of M&A destroyed competition and permitted the slaughter of good paying American jobs through "streamlining".  The "Reagan Recovery" was spearheaded by tremendous deficit spending, mostly on defense, that has never been reeled back by any administration since. (But somehow that's all Barry's fault).  His foreign policy was disastrous (goading Iran Iraq war to sell arms to both sides, Marines in Beirut, failure to attempt nuclear arms reduction with Gorbachev) and he was oversold on his great triumphs: the recapture of Grenada and the bombing of Libya.

I can agree partly on about half of that. Where I don't agree is in that I don't think arms reduction should have been a focus for anyone. By the 1980's, the chances for nuclear conflict had dropped so much through dialogue that reduction no longer mattered. It never mattered anyway, what was the difference if you could destroy the world one or 180 times? All you need is once. Reduction was simply a dog and pony show when the public should have been paying attention to what was going on in Afghanistan.

I also think busting Patco was the right thing to do. I believe unions to be necessary to a point, but no one ever talks about their excesses. Are we really going to shut down every airport in the US to talk to someone that's demanding a 32 hour work week? What the fuck is this, France? Really. And it wasn't against some corporation, it was against the FAA, a government entity, i.e. the people of the United States. More, those controllers all had no strike clauses in their contracts, and it was illegal in the first place for federal employees to strike at all. Well, look, if I break a contract, or you, we get the holy living shit sued out of us. If we break a federal law, even a minor one, we go to prison for 920 years. Patco was being excessive, and they needed to be smacked down. Many of the unions at the time were being unreasonably excessive, no one was saying a word, so ultimately it blew up in their faces too.

I don't mind defense spending. The world was not a nice place in the 1980's and it was important for the times. It no longer is, but we never pared back spending--and now it's not so much for defense. In fact it seems to only grow, and Barry's certainly grown it while at the same time cutting vitally important things such as technology development programs.

I actually thought GHWB genuinely tried to make the world a better place.  He completely abdicated responsibility for the US economy, why he lost, but his coaltion building for Desert Shield was a model of success, and I think NAFTA, though I hate it, was a genuine attempt to make the northern western hemisphere an economic bloc of unbeatable influence.  It's too bad Mexico's ruinous corruption negated that.

He should have known, the criticisms at the time turned out valid. While you can enter a free trade agreement with a country on your own standing as far as standards of living and wages, you can't do it with one below you. It simply results in a trade imbalance and gives corporations a way to sell their goods in the domestic market without producing them domestically by taking advantage of cheap labor in the third world country you have free trade with. The end result of that is a period of prosperity as cheap goods flood the market, but as time wears on the wealth gets drained out of the country faster than it can be created. In the end, median incomes lower, the middle class disappears, and the gap between rich and poor grows.

[NowhereInTime]

And by the way:  Facebook?  Really?

Closed Friday at 67.14 a share with a market cap of $171 billion dollars and 66 cents earning per share connecting people.  So, yes, really. 

And your snark precisely prooves my point. You are an anachronism and what's wrong with America.

[NowhereInTime]

Hey, P*B, who doesn't want to know what Buffy had for lunch?    I can't get enough of "awesome" and "yummy."

Hey, ItsOver.  It really is over.  You may not like Facebook, but nearly a billion people do and they are monetizing it.

[FightTheFuture]

Closed Friday at 67.14 a share with a market cap of $171 billion dollars and 66 cents earning per share connecting people.  So, yes, really. 

And your snark precisely prooves my point. You are an anachronism and what's wrong with America.

I hope you aren`t buying FB. In fact, I would strongly encourage anybody to be as liquid as possible.

A substantial correction is not long in coming.

[NowhereInTime]

I hope you aren`t buying FB. In fact, I would strongly encourage anybody to be as liquid as possible.

A substantial correction is not long in coming.

You know, when it started this past week I got that "here it comes" feeling but then the last couple trading days weren't so bad.  Everybody seems sold on a ten percent correction, where do you figure?

[FightTheFuture]

You know, when it started this past week I got that "here it comes" feeling but then the last couple trading days weren't so bad.  Everybody seems sold on a ten percent correction, where do you figure?

Well, some folks say we have already seen ''the correction'', but I disagree. January was jitters, I think by the time June rolls around we'll be in the 14.5k range or lower.

[NowhereInTime]

Well, some folks say we have already seen ''the correction'', but I disagree. January was jitters, I think by the time June rolls around we'll be in the 14.5k range or lower.

Crap.  My Microsoft stock was starting to rebound, too.

[yumyumtree]

I worked for, voted for and served in the Libertarian Party for a number of years.  I fell out with them when I realized they took stands on secondary issues that could not be won (fully informed jury project, hard drug legalization) rather than take stands on important primary issues - US foreign policy, war, taxation, Social Security, etc.

So did I. I quit mainly because so many of them(including me, maybe) had profound character an maturity issues. Also foreign policy and a few other issues.

[NowhereInTime]

I probably should've posted this in the Putin thread, but its so juicy I had to leave it here:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/22/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

All of you brash conservative Putin cheering "patridiots" who kept insisting he's the Jedi Master of foreign affairs can stuff this one in your hat.  He can't even kept control in his own backyard.  Great move using live ammo on protesters. 

Hey, Paper* Boy, what do you think would happen if we were so daft as to use live ammo on "Occupy Thugs" ? 

[Little Hater]

Hey, Paper* Boy, what do you think would happen if we were so daft as to use live ammo on "Occupy Thugs" ?

Fewer Occupy Thugs and Neil Young would write a song. Other than that, nothing, just like Kent State.

[PB the Deplorable]

... Hey, Paper* Boy, what do you think would happen if we were so daft as to use live ammo on "Occupy Thugs" ?

Wouldn't happen unless they stormed the White House and the Capital Building.  Or were committing mayhem somewhere else to the point it was so completely out of control a lethal response was necessary.

But their handlers are smarter than to do that.

I probably should've posted this in the Putin thread, but its so juicy I had to leave it here:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/02/22/world/europe/ukraine-protests/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

All of you brash conservative Putin cheering "patridiots" who kept insisting he's the Jedi Master of foreign affairs can stuff this one in your hat.  He can't even kept control in his own backyard.  Great move using live ammo on protesters...

Can you name one country that we have better relations with now than when Obama came into office?  One situation in the world that is better because of something Obama or his Secretaries of State Hillary Clinton or John Kerry did?  Anything any of them have done to make us or our allies stronger?

[Yorkshire pud]

What has happened is playing out in Ukraine has nothing to do with the USA, least of all Obama (or whoever had been president). It's about the opposition leader being jailed, it's about the (seemingly absent now) current President wanting to have much closer ties with Russia, and a great deal of the people wanting closer ties with the EU. The irony (and it hasn't gone unnoticed in the UK) is that a great many in the UK want fewer and even no ties with the EU! Not that we want stronger ones with Russia.

The people have called the shots (no punn intended), they're unarmed too, the bloodbath that would have ensued if they were would have been like Syria is now. They started off in quiet demonstrations, they started off by using placards and slogans. No-one knows where it will go as it's in a very delicate state whilst it is effectively without any rudder. I can only hope that Russia don't take it on themselves to bring the tanks in to crush the demonstrators and reimpose the President.

[FightTheFuture]

What has happened is playing out in Ukraine has nothing to do with the USA, least of all Obama (or whoever had been president).

That`s just absolutely NOT true at all. Putin is thumbing his rotten, communist nose at the world -- especially Obama and the USA.

You know, it`s pretty damn disgraceful, and says a whole lot about the flaccid nature of this administration`s approach to foreign policy, when the Ukraine Defense Ministry won`t even answer the damn phone when we call! Putin has played Obama like a fiddle, which has opened the door for the old KGB hack`s expansionist ambitions. Only the extreme bravery and resilience of the Ukrainian people can stop the slaughter now. Besides, Caesar Obamus can`t be trifled with such matters; he has to consider where his next vacation will be, along with how to integrate his annual March Madness bracket picks into his busy golf schedule.

[Yorkshire pud]

That`s just absolutely NOT true at all. Putin is thumbing his rotten, communist nose at the world -- especially Obama and the USA.

You know, it`s pretty damn disgraceful, and says a whole lot about the flaccid nature of this administration`s approach to foreign policy, when the Ukraine Defense Ministry won`t even answer the damn phone when we call! Putin has played Obama like a fiddle, which has opened the door for the old KGB hack`s expansionist ambitions. Only the extreme bravery and resilience of the Ukrainian people can stop the slaughter now. Besides, Caesar Obamus can`t be trifled with such matters; he has to consider where his next vacation will be, along with how to integrate his annual March Madness bracket picks into his busy golf schedule.

Hmmm, as I thought, you really don't have a clue.

[wr250]

i wonder how the SCORPION ARMY feels about this. oh wait Art will be broadcasting in rt.com with larry king, must be the SCORPION ARMY likes putin .

[Yorkshire pud]

i wonder how the SCORPION ARMY feels about this. oh wait Art will be broadcasting in rt.com with larry king, must be the SCORPION ARMY likes putin .

Latest is that the ousted President has been refused to leave for Russia. The imprisoned ex President has been released from prison, and the MP's have promised new elections.

[NowhereInTime]

Wouldn't happen unless they stormed the White House and the Capital Building.  Or were committing mayhem somewhere else to the point it was so completely out of control a lethal response was necessary.

But their handlers are smarter than to do that.




Can you name one country that we have better relations with now than when Obama came into office?  One situation in the world that is better because of something Obama or his Secretaries of State Hillary Clinton or John Kerry did?  Anything any of them have done to make us or our allies stronger?

Better situation in the world?  Yes.  Libya.  It is war torn, but breaking Qaddafi's reign of terror was important.  Of course, being a good little conservative, you'll rend your garments and scream to the Heavens, "Bengazhi"!!!  But you'll quietly excuse Beirut, 1983, won't you?

Also?  Iran.  You'll scoff, but the truth is Bush, while naming them part of the "Axis", did nothing to suppress their nuclear ambitions while 'Bam, with Stuxnet, showed them the folly of their program.  So much so that they finally came to the table to negotiate their program away in exchange for the limiting of sanctions. 

Iraq, though not a paradise, isn't the complete disaster conservatives bellyached about.  Yes, there are suicide bombs because the conservative Islamo-fascists will not yield their dreams of Caliphate, but Iraq is still Iraq, not Al-Qaeda-stan.

China.  Obama Admin has made great inroads to China to begin to open up avenues for American business and to try to crack down on counterfeit goods, limit their currency manipulation and respect intellectual property.  He doesn't back down to China on Myanmar, the Dalai Lama, or North Korea and they publicly fit and fume.  If China were really pissed, though, wouldn't they sanction all those American businesses instead of granting them incentives, like they are doing for Tesla?  Again, not ideal, but far more reaching than Reagan's spitting and fuming and W. walking into the wrong door.

So, what "allies" have been harmed in the process?  UK? No.  Cameron's Conservative Crazies have pushed GBR into near dissolution.  Everything I read seems to be 50/50 on disunion between England and Scotland, but there's nothing any US admin could do to prevent that.

France harmed?  No.  Germany harmed? No.  The Snowden thing?  Only if you are naive enough to believe that Obama was the first President ever to permit the NSA to do what it does best.  Does he owe the Germans an apology? Bitch, please.

So, who has Obama made less "stronger"?  Philippines? No, they're holding out against the Chinese navy just fine.  Japan?  We've done nothing to harm them their own policies already haven't done.   

The world is a safer place for America because everyone knows how far reaching our intelligence capability is, how quick and responsive our military is, and how committed we really are to our allies. 

Your boy Putin can't even stave off rebellion in his own backyard, as his handpicked man in Ukraine is fleeing for his life after being unanimously voted out by parliament.

Do I wish we would do something to save lives in Syria?  Yes, but the truth is you can't tell the players with a scorecard and I don't want a repeat of Reagan's mistake in Afghanistan, basically giving arms to Mujahadeen/Al-Qaeda.

Are you going to drop the usual conservative fear-bomb on me and complain about Israel?  Yeah, last I checked, Bibi was starting to build in the West Bank again, so, he's on his own, now.

You claim to be such an expert (how you've "lived through" everything) but your foreign policy assertions read straight out of the New York Post.

[PB the Deplorable]

Actually, Khadafy had been contained and quiet for years, Libya is much worse off now (to be fair, same could be said for post Saddam Iraq).

Iran is now free to go full speed ahead with their nuclear bomb program, thanks to Obama's recent 'deal'.  To show their appreciation (read:  contempt), Iran recently sent some warships to the Atlantic just off the east coast of the US, probably as a dry run.  They will be here soon.  Weakness draws aggression - didn't we learn that with Jimmy Carter?

You really think Iraq is better off now than they were 5 yeas ago?  With al-Qaeda operating openly in many districts, including taking over entire cities?  Not to mention the level of violence in the rest of the country 'controlled' by the government there.

China?  You think our relations with them are better?  Have you not noticed their naval buildup, focus and threats on countering the US and our allies in the western Pacific, that their claims of sovereignty over islands in the Yellow Sea, East China Sea, and South China Sea has now included armed patrols and threats to their neighbors regarding them?

China has recently even claimed much of the airspace over the East China Sea belongs to them, and appear to be ready to make the same claim regarding the South China Sea. 


You are 0 for 4, wanna try again?

[NowhereInTime]

Actually, Khadafy had been contained and quiet for years, Libya is much worse off now (to be fair, same could be said for post Saddam Iraq).

Iran is now free to go full speed ahead with their nuclear bomb program, thanks to Obama's recent 'deal'.  To show their appreciation (read:  contempt), Iran recently sent some warships to the Atlantic just off the east coast of the US, probably as a dry run.  They will be here soon.  Weakness draws aggression - didn't we learn that with Jimmy Carter?

You really think Iraq is better off now than they were 5 yeas ago?  With al-Qaeda operating openly in many districts, including taking over entire cities?  Not to mention the level of violence in the rest of the country 'controlled' by the government there.

China?  You think our relations with them are better?  Have you not noticed their naval buildup, focus and threats on countering the US and our allies in the western Pacific, that their claims of sovereignty over islands in the Yellow Sea, East China Sea, and South China Sea has now included armed patrols and threats to their neighbors regarding them?

China has recently even claimed much of the airspace over the East China Sea belongs to them, and appear to be ready to make the same claim regarding the South China Sea. 


You are 0 for 4, wanna try again?

I would, except there's not one factual thing you just said.  Khadafy was "contained and quiet"?  Ask his citizens how "quiet" he was.  We knew him as a murderer of Americans going back to Pan Am 103 over Lockerbee and he didn't deserve one more day in charge. 

Iran is free and full speed ahead with their nuclear program? That's delusional, and wholly unsubstantiated.  You're just embarassed because this was your big chit in claiming Putin "outmaneuvered" Obama.  This deal was multilateral with inspections already underway.  Iran wants back in to the world after three decades of isolation (besides the Russians, Chinese, and French) Just another example you creating facts to match your misbegotten world view. 

Anyone who has ever studied China knows that they are, since Mao's death, the very model of pragmatism.  They could've told the Brits to stuff it when Maggie came calling in the 80's to keep Hong Kong and taken Hong Kong into the meat grinder.  Instead, Hong Kong is one of the world's most important commercial cities in the world because of the negotiated treaty between Xiopang and the British government (One Country, Two Systems).  The biggest weapon China has is a world class poker face.  Yes, they are mustering their miltary to impress their neighbors in South China Sea and airspace.  Watch how this plays out; not one shot will be fired - the Chinese know how to deal. I'd wager they will form a cartel that they lead, but give off a cut to the neighbors to keep the peace.  Remember, China's real objective is to control a source of oil to fuel their economy, not to be a player on the commodity stage. Plus, they are underway with talks to expand relations with Taiwan, an island they could've taken anytime in the last 70 years but don't because the bloodshed serves no purpose. 

Man, what you don't know about foreign policy would crash every server in the Western Hemisphere.

Wanna try again?