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'I've Had Enough': When Democrats Quit on Obama

Started by Quick Karl, June 10, 2014, 08:22:42 AM


bigchucka

Quote from: Quick Karl on June 10, 2014, 08:22:42 AM
Bergdahl swap is latest last straw for top Democrats frustrated with president's leadership.

http://www.nationaljournal.com/white-house/i-ve-had-enough-when-democrats-quit-on-obama-20140609

Bet they still wouldn't vote to impeach if it got brought up.  Senate decides that, correct?  House to start... Supreme Court judges... Senate is jury if memory serves me correctly.

wr250

you are correct, the house issues the  endightment , the senate try's the impeachment case. the punishment is limited to removal from office, and a ban on public service for life.

Quick Karl

No one on Earth is going to impeach America's first Black American President.

WOTR

Quote from: Quick Karl on June 10, 2014, 08:48:59 AM
No one on Earth is going to impeach America's first Black American President.
They did not impeach him when they had the chance (if memory serves, somebody famous called him "Americas first black president" based on his past...)  So this would really just be impeaching the second Black American President...

albrecht

Quote from: wotr1 on June 10, 2014, 09:53:25 PM
They did not impeach him when they had the chance (if memory serves, somebody famous called him "Americas first black president" based on his past...)  So this would really just be impeaching the second Black American President...
But NO WAY are they going to impeach the first "gay President", as proclaimed by Newsweek infamously (and by many of the people familiar with his antics in Chicago and separate vacations away from Michelle and various "body-men" more famously!)

Quick Karl

Quote from: albrecht on June 10, 2014, 10:31:04 PM
But NO WAY are they going to impeach the first "gay President", as proclaimed by Newsweek infamously (and by many of the people familiar with his antics in Chicago and separate vacations away from Michelle and various "body-men" more famously!)

I just threw-up a little bit...

If Obama were to be Impeached by the House, no way would Harry Reid's corrupt Democrats vote to Convict.  They will always put Party ahead of Country.

Were Obama to be Impeached by the House and not Convicted by the Senate, it would only embolden him. 


And we can forget about Eric Holder ever appointing a Special Prosecutor for any of Obama's illegal actions as well.


What IS needed are Select House committees - whose sole focus is to investigate the various crimes and abuses of power.  The Fast and Furious gun running operation to the Mexican drug cartels, Benghazi (the failure and the cover up), the extent of the surveillance on all Americans revealed by Snowden (and the timeline of what they did and who ordered what), the IRS targeting of Obama's political enemies, the release of the 5 top Taliban commanders from Gitmo.  The extent of the dealings with Islamic Jihad in Libya, Egypt, Syria, and the relationship this Administration has with CAIR. 

The House committees under whose oversight purview these incidents and issues would normally fall are clearly not up to the task.  They need a separate Select Committee for EACH of them.  They need to be composed of House members and staff with experience in law enforcement, investigation, and interrogation, instead of the usual weasels looking to make deals.

In addition to Select Committees examining the above outrages, the regular subcommittees that do the usual oversight should investigate the deal with Iran allowing them to proceed with their nuclear bomb project unhindered, Solyndra, the expense and failure of the ObamaCare rollout and the 40 plus unilateral changes illegally made to the legislation by the Administration.

The only way to combat this incompetent and lawless President is by putting him and his party on the defensive - with a drip, drip, drip of daily briefings and updates.  These committees would each need a spokesman able to communicate effectively, with the ability to bypass the Left-wing Media and directly tell the American people exactly what went on and what continues to go on at this White House.


I.e., a political solution to our Obama problem.  The Democrats would block any legal solution.


Quick Karl

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 10, 2014, 10:38:12 PM
If Obama were to be Impeached by the House, no way would Harry Reid's corrupt Democrats vote to Convict.  They will always put Party ahead of Country.

Were Obama to be Impeached by the House and not Convicted by the Senate, it would only embolden him. 


And we can forget about Eric Holder ever appointing a Special Prosecutor for any of Obama's illegal actions as well.


What IS needed are Select House committees - whose sole focus is to investigate the various crimes and abuses of power.  The Fast and Furious gun running operation to the Mexican drug cartels, Benghazi (the failure and the cover up), the extent of the surveillance on all Americans revealed by Snowden (and the timeline of what they did and who ordered what), the IRS targeting of Obama's political enemies, the release of the 5 top Taliban commanders from Gitmo.  The extent of the dealings with Islamic Jihad in Libya, Egypt, Syria, and the relationship this Administration has with CAIR. 

The House committees under whose oversight purview these incidents and issues would normally fall are clearly not up to the task.  They need a separate Select Committee for EACH of them.  They need to be composed of House members and staff with experience in law enforcement, investigation, and interrogation, instead of the usual weasels looking to make deals.

In addition to Select Committees examining the above outrages, the regular subcommittees that do the usual oversight should investigate the deal with Iran allowing them to proceed with their nuclear bomb project unhindered, Solyndra, the expense and failure of the ObamaCare rollout and the 40 plus unilateral changes illegally made to the legislation by the Administration.

The only way to combat this incompetent and lawless President is by putting him and his party on the defensive - with a drip, drip, drip of daily briefings and updates.  These committees would each need a spokesman able to communicate effectively, with the ability to bypass the Left-wing Media and directly tell the American people exactly what went on and what continues to go on at this White House.

I.e., a political solution to our Obama problem.  The Democrats would block any legal solution.

In order for any of your proposals to have a chance in a billion of working, we would need honest politicians on our side, that actually cared about the country, instead of their own pockets.

We don't.

Quote from: Quick Karl on June 10, 2014, 11:18:35 PM
In order for any of your proposals to have a chance in a billion of working, we would need honest politicians on our side, that actually cared about the country, instead of their own pockets.

We don't.


There are plenty of good House and Senate members.  Just not enough to pass certain pieces of legislation and block others.  That isn't their fault, and it doesn't make them SOBs.  They need help.  That's why some of the Old Bull RINOs are being challenged in the primaries.

As far as these proposals working, maybe these or something similar will now emerge after the Eric Cantor fallout.  Do not discount his loss today, it was an earthquake in the GOP Good Old boy Crony-Capitalist Network.  Don't think the few non-'Progressive' 'Party-first' Democrats aren't watching and worrying a little as well.

The Conservatives have been telling 'leadership' to start challenging Obama and standing up to him all along, but they won't.  They've gone along on lifting the debt ceiling, on passing the Continuing Resolutions, on not challenging ObamaCare whenever and where ever they could, and are plotting amnesty.  They have been grossly ineffective in their oversight function of investigating the various Administration crimes and abuses.  They just roll over when Obama seizes more power than his office allows for.

They want to slide into a Senate Majority in November without mounting fights and pushing back.  Even the RINO's who won their primaries looked bad doing it when they had challengers, despite their spin.  After today's defenestration of Kantor they have to be a little closer to getting the message.

Maybe you are right, and it will be back to business as usual leading up to the elections.  That's probably likely.  But stay tuned.

Quick Karl

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 10, 2014, 11:59:10 PM

There are plenty of good House and Senate members.  Just not enough to pass certain pieces of legislation and block others.  That isn't their fault, and it doesn't make them SOBs.  They need help.  That's why some of the Old Bull RINOs are being challenged in the primaries.

As far as these proposals working, maybe these or something similar will now emerge after the Eric Cantor fallout.  Do not discount his loss today, it was an earthquake in the GOP Good Old boy Crony-Capitalist Network.  Don't think the few non-'Progressive' 'Party-first' Democrats aren't watching and worrying a little as well.

The Conservatives have been telling 'leadership' to start challenging Obama and standing up to him all along, but they won't.  They've gone along on lifting the debt ceiling, on passing the Continuing Resolutions, on not challenging ObamaCare whenever and where ever they could, and are plotting amnesty.  They have been grossly ineffective in their oversight function of investigating the various Administration crimes and abuses.  They just roll over when Obama seizes more power than his office allows for.

They want to slide into a Senate Majority in November without mounting fights and pushing back.  Even the RINO's who won their primaries looked bad doing it when they had challengers, despite their spin.  After today's defenestration of Kantor they have to be a little closer to getting the message.

Maybe you are right, and it will be back to business as usual leading up to the elections.  That's probably likely.  But stay tuned.

I don't believe there is "politician' anywhere in this country that has an ounce of patriotism flowing in their veins.

Americans were too content, for too long, to sit in their lazy-boys, complaining about everything, while voting for their own entitlements (social security - that they KNEW was a scam that would someday explode leaving someone else holding the bag) while concurrently lying on their insurance claims to get "more than their fair share", and that rubbed off onto their children, who now believe that corruption is perfectly fine, and what you see now in the country, is the result.

And that all paved the way for the cancer we have in Washington.

The only thing that will change what is, is when good people begin to demand an end to fraud, by whatever means necessary. But as I am much the skeptical cynic, I don't believe people have the character and integrity, to do it.

Quote from: Quick Karl on June 11, 2014, 12:51:35 AM
I don't believe there is "politician' anywhere in this country that has an ounce of patriotism flowing in their veins...


There most certainly are. 

Dave Brat, the guy who kicked Eric Cantors ass out of the House will make an excellent Congressman.  There are others.  I don't need to provide the list, you have access to Google.


Quote from: Quick Karl on June 11, 2014, 12:51:35 AM
... Americans were too content, for too long, to sit in their lazy-boys, complaining about everything, while voting for their own entitlements (social security - that they KNEW was a scam that would someday explode leaving someone else holding the bag) while concurrently lying on their insurance claims to get "more than their fair share", and that rubbed off onto their children, who now believe that corruption is perfectly fine, and what you see now in the country, is the result.

And that all paved the way for the cancer we have in Washington...


Yes, that's what has happened, but it isn't everyone.  Far from it. 

Most people still get up and go to work every day, raise their families, volunteer in their community, pay their taxes.  They've become turned off to politics and just assume our great country will go on the way it always has.  They don't like the direction the country is going in but aren't yet alarmed.  Big Media, Hollywood, the government schools, and Washington DC work in unison to keep people passive and uninformed.

Yet they aren't Marxists.  'Liberal' is still a bad word in most places.  Some vote Democrat where the D's tell them they are 'fiscal' Conservatives, but aren't.  Some vote Republican where the R's run as Conservatives, but revert back into RINOs when they get back to DC.

I think having this Obama character has opened a few eyes.  Hell, having Bush II opened a few eyes.  Ordinary citizens fed up with Bush formed the Tea Party.

Here is a county by county map of voters in 2008.  You can probably find similar for 2012 by Googling.

This fight is far from over

[attachimg=1]




Of course, acres of prairie dogs, stinging nettle, and rangeland don't vote:  people do.  I'd like to see a population-density overlay of that ultra-red map.

wr250

so basically if the northeast states, florida california and texas all vote the same, they rule over all the rest of the states  (~240 electoral votes).

albrecht

Quote from: West of the Rockies on June 11, 2014, 07:47:55 AM
Of course, acres of prairie dogs, stinging nettle, and rangeland don't vote:  people do.  I'd like to see a population-density overlay of that ultra-red map.
True, which is one reason with have the bicameral republican system with only one house being popularly elected. (Although the Senate is now also "popular" with the direct election of Senators which the Founders were against.)

Another thing to consider is how many people simply don't vote. I know many, many people who have given up voting or never had because they figure:
1) it won't change anything
2) too busy working and just living
3) politics is boring, just two parties accusing each other of something

One pipe-dream I've had [in addition to what would happen if every person and business (or a decent percentage) just decided not to mail in their check to the IRS] is what would happen if nobody showed up at the polls? How could a politicians with a straight face act or go onto the foreign stage for meetings knowing that nobody voted for them? That nobody trusted the system? Might sheer embarrassment force some change?

Quote from: albrecht on June 11, 2014, 09:58:02 AM
... One pipe-dream I've had [in addition to what would happen if every person and business (or a decent percentage) just decided not to mail in their check to the IRS]...


That's why it's withheld from peoples paychecks

Little Hater

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 11, 2014, 01:24:48 AM

There most certainly are. 


My sense of it has been (for a long time) that if you aren't corrupt when you arrive in Washington, you will be when you leave.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Little Hater on June 11, 2014, 11:31:28 AM
My sense of it has been (for a long time) that if you aren't corrupt when you arrive in Washington, you will be when you leave.


And another truism...All political lives ultimately end in failure. Be it un-elected, death, voted out.

wr250

Quote from: albrecht on June 11, 2014, 09:58:02 AM
True, which is one reason with have the bicameral republican system with only one house being popularly elected. (Although the Senate is now also "popular" with the direct election of Senators which the Founders were against.)
i would be for this amendment, the reason senators were appointed instead of directly elected was :
1. the house is directly elected, and represents the people.
2. senators are appointed and represent the states.

[quote
Another thing to consider is how many people simply don't vote. I know many, many people who have given up voting
[/quote]
give us something other than a career politician (because eventually it corrupts, and the congress-persons, pres/vice work for campaign contributions, rather than for the best interests of the country), and i would vote for them.
think about it, how much different is 0bama from bushII (or clinton, or bush I for that matter).
the corporate cronyism continues, patriot act continues, undeclared wars continue, excessive spending continues and so on. 

Quote from: Little Hater on June 11, 2014, 11:31:28 AM
My sense of it has been (for a long time) that if you aren't corrupt when you arrive in Washington, you will be when you leave.


Term limits

And some sort of limit or outright prohibition from certain lobbying activities after a person's time in office is over.


The real answer of course is to scale government at all levels down to the point where it doesn't make business sense to retain a staff of high priced lobbyists.  The Congress wouldn't have the favors to hand out.

albrecht

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 11, 2014, 11:14:49 AM

That's why it's withheld from peoples paychecks
I think that is more to "hide" the tax people are paying and to trick lower wage uneducated workers that "look I get a refund aint the government great!" Meanwhile they don't realize what they paid and opportunity costs of having the government hold that money for them for those months. But what if those who actually cut checks to the government (either estimated quarterly or at the end of the tax year) stopped paying them?

albrecht

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 11, 2014, 04:05:53 PM
The real answer of course is to scale government at all levels down to the point where it doesn't make business sense to retain a staff of high priced lobbyists.  The Congress wouldn't have the favors to hand out.
Ding! That is the only real solution and our Founders knew it and that is why they designed the system to be small and limited (and even then had great consternation about the powers given to the Feds.)

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