Latest French Attacks: updates (in English)

[albrecht]

Reports of hostages, AK47 shootings, 20+dead, and grenade attacks near the National Stadium, a restaurant, a bar, and elsewhere. No word on motivation or suspects. Though one could imagine it is the usual 'peaceful' types. There was an international friendly between Germany and France around the time of some of the attacks and the President was in attendance and had to be taken away. Horrible.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995227/Paris-shooting-Many-feared-dead-live.html

[Eddie Coyle]

  "Jihadi John"(Mohammed from Kuwait) and his death are already being speculated by CNN airheads as a possible cause.

   That's after Jim Sciutto and Jake Tapper dithered for half and hour on whether it could be "terrorism"

   

[albrecht]

  "Jihadi John"(Mohammed from Kuwait) and his death are already being speculated by CNN airheads as a possible cause.

   That's after Jim Sciutto and Jake Tapper dithered for half and hour on whether it could be "terrorism"

Clearly the reported shouts of "Allah Akbar" means the 'peaceful protests' was done by a beret-wearing, cheese-eating, wine-drinking, vacation-going native Frenchmen with names like Jean-Luc. Maybe this will get them to wake up and address their immigration policy and society? More likely candle-lit vigils and hand-wringing about how we need to accommodate and "how could these peaceful people do this? What have we done? How can we do more?" Maybe taking some "refugees" would help settle this down? Diversity equals strength. Insanity.

[VtaGeezer]

   That's after Jim Sciutto and Jake Tapper dithered for half and hour on whether it could be "terrorism"

I give them the benefit of the doubt.  If I heard "deaths" and "football game" in the same report, I probably wouldn't think of Islamists right away either.

[Eddie Coyle]

I give them the benefit of the doubt.  If I heard "deaths" and "football game" in the same report, I probably wouldn't think of Islamists right away either.

   ISIS can only aspire to be as murderous as the hooligans.

[SredniVashtar]

Clearly the reported shouts of "Allah Akbar" means the 'peaceful protests' was done by a beret-wearing, cheese-eating, wine-drinking, vacation-going native Frenchmen with names like Jean-Luc. Maybe this will get them to wake up and address their immigration policy and society? More likely candle-lit vigils and hand-wringing about how we need to accommodate and "how could these peaceful people do this? What have we done? How can we do more?" Maybe taking some "refugees" would help settle this down? Diversity equals strength. Insanity.

It might be wise to let all this settle down and find out what is really going on first. That's the trouble with all of this instant comment on the news, it's all sound and fury. We get all sorts of people being interviewed, who know no more than anybody else, but they have to say something because that's their rather fatuous job. So they just talk a lot of balls for several days until the facts are slowly uncovered. If they said "Allah Akhbar" I'd be inclined to doubt they were muslims in the first place, if they can't get the basic Arabic right.

[VtaGeezer]

60 hostages in a concert hall. Shades of Moscow some years ago.

[Eddie Coyle]

Clearly the reported shouts of "Allah Akbar" means the 'peaceful protests' was done by a beret-wearing, cheese-eating, wine-drinking, vacation-going native Frenchmen with names like Jean-Luc. Maybe this will get them to wake up and address their immigration policy and society? More likely candle-lit vigils and hand-wringing about how we need to accommodate and "how could these peaceful people do this? What have we done? How can we do more?" Maybe taking some "refugees" would help settle this down? Diversity equals strength. Insanity.

    Was Angela Merkel at the "friendly"? That would have been fitting. It's a taste of what's coming to her land.

   

[SredniVashtar]

   ISIS can only aspire to be as murderous as the hooligans.

I don't know about the history between France and Germany in football, but Germany v Holland can get rather tasty because they don't like each other at all. As someone who has found himself stuck in the middle of these things on occasion, they are not fun. Parts of London can come to a standstill on a Saturday afternoon, and there are so many riot police and horses that you would think you were in a war zone.

[albrecht]

It might be wise to let all this settle down and find out what is really going on first. That's the trouble with all of this instant comment on the news, it's all sound and fury. We get all sorts of people being interviewed, who know no more than anybody else, but they have to say something because that's their rather fatuous job. So they just talk a lot of balls for several days until the facts are slowly uncovered. If they said "Allah Akhbar" I'd be inclined to doubt they were muslims in the first place, if they can't get the basic Arabic right.

Not all Muslims are Arabs, but surely you know that. And the quote about them saying that was from some French witnesses, who likely were not likely fluent in Arabic or other language from Muslim lands. Of course we should wait because everyone knows Islam is a religion of peace and never cause problems in Europe or elsewhere- even in their own homelands. But I do agree with you on the news but, I figured, if "you can't beat em join em" and, hence, my "live updates" thread.

[albrecht]

I don't know about the history between France and Germany in football, but Germany v Holland can get rather tasty because they don't like each other at all. As someone who has found himself stuck in the middle of these things on occasion, they are not fun. Parts of London can come to a standstill on a Saturday afternoon, and there are so many riot police and horses that you would think you were in a war zone.

I don't know history of Germany/France football but not as "volatile" as Germany/Holland (my favorite chant is about "give my grandma her bike back"- in reference to the Krauts who stole bikes when fleeing back to Germany,) Germany/England, England/Turkey, or between various clubs, I think. But I'm doubting this is simple 'hooliganism' that, whilst spirited, doesn't usually involve more that, at worst, knives and molotovs on occasion.

[chefist]

I don't know about the history between France and Germany in football, but Germany v Holland can get rather tasty because they don't like each other at all. As someone who has found himself stuck in the middle of these things on occasion, they are not fun. Parts of London can come to a standstill on a Saturday afternoon, and there are so many riot police and horses that you would think you were in a war zone.

They take hostages at soccor matches?

[Eddie Coyle]

I don't know about the history between France and Germany in football, but Germany v Holland can get rather tasty because they don't like each other at all. As someone who has found himself stuck in the middle of these things on occasion, they are not fun. Parts of London can come to a standstill on a Saturday afternoon, and there are so many riot police and horses that you would think you were in a war zone.

   The images from Brussels in May of '85 were chilling. It did look like a scene out of a war.

   Then again, 7 died after the Detroit Tigers won the World Series in '84

[Eddie Coyle]

  CNN has BFM reporting 60 dead.

[SredniVashtar]

   The images from Brussels in May of '85 were chilling. It did look like a scene out of a war.

   Then again, 7 died after the Detroit Tigers won the World Series in '84

That would be Heysel. And we had Hillsborough, which was more to do with overcrowding, but still a major disaster. There are some teams that feel it's their duty to be total dicks. There is a team here called Millwall, and their proud chant is 'no-one likes us, we don't care' and every place they go to they think they owe it to their reputation to be as moronic as possible. You can feel the tension with some groups of fans - even if nothing is actually happening you know it won't take much to start them off. But things aren't as bad as they used to be, now we have all-seater stadiums, because a lot of the trouble came from the terraces where people were standing all the time and getting into fights.

[SredniVashtar]

I don't know history of Germany/France football but not as "volatile" as Germany/Holland (my favorite chant is about "give my grandma her bike back"- in reference to the Krauts who stole bikes when fleeing back to Germany,) Germany/England, England/Turkey, or between various clubs, I think. But I'm doubting this is simple 'hooliganism' that, whilst spirited, doesn't usually involve more that, at worst, knives and molotovs on occasion.

Some of the rivalry between Dutch domestic teams can be pretty toxic.  There are some teams which have a high proportion of Jewish fans, like Ajax, and rival teams make this hissing noise to mimic the sound of the gas chambers. Un-fucking-believable. Even we don't go that far over here, I don't think.

[Juan]

Suicide bombers, people firing from passing cars, three locations, possibly a fourth, Geraldo's daughter in the midst of it.

[albrecht]

That would be Heysel. And we had Hillsborough, which was more to do with overcrowding, but still a major disaster. There are some teams that feel it's their duty to be total dicks. There is a team here called Millwall, and their proud chant is 'no-one likes us, we don't care' and every place they go to they think they owe it to their reputation to be as moronic as possible. You can feel the tension with some groups of fans - even if nothing is actually happening you know it won't take much to start them off. But things aren't as bad as they used to be, now we have all-seater stadiums, because a lot of the trouble came from the terraces where people were standing all the time and getting into fights.

I think, could be wrong, he was talking about the English behavior during the Euros (late 90's? early 2000's? In Belgium? And the UEFA Cup around then in Denmark?) Epic. Crazyness.  How about Rangers vs the City of Manchester proper, not the soccer team Zenit who beat them. Wow. That was crazy. People almost knee deep in empty bottles and cans afterwards. Judge saying worst damage done since the Blitz. I say unite the Firms, Ultras, etc across Europe and set them against the Muslim radicals since the politicians and police won't stop it.

But this isn't some hooligans in their cups. It is Muslims, once again, practicing the religion of peace. Hopefully this will wake up Europe, but I doubt it. Horrible.

[Juan]

Reports of men shouting "this is for Syria."

[albrecht]

Some of the rivalry between Dutch domestic teams can be pretty toxic.  There are some teams which have a high proportion of Jewish fans, like Ajax, and rival teams make this hissing noise to mimic the sound of the gas chambers. Un-fucking-believable. Even we don't go that far over here, I don't think.

What about the 'Yids' Spurs? There have been chants and hisses. Though, you know, both Tottenham and Ajax have embraced the 'semitism' and had historical roots in their neighborhoods (and hence opponents chanting against them.) PSV/Ajax can be great fun. Some crazy stuff. Nothing beats an Old Firm match! The chants, the violence, the drinking, the animosity, the sectarianism, the songs, etc it is really unbelievable that such thing can exist in what, arguably, is a first world country (though it is Glasgow.)

[Juan]

iSIS celebrating on Twitter

[Eddie Coyle]

That would be Heysel. And we had Hillsborough, which was more to do with overcrowding, but still a major disaster. There are some teams that feel it's their duty to be total dicks. There is a team here called Millwall, and their proud chant is 'no-one likes us, we don't care' and every place they go to they think they owe it to their reputation to be as moronic as possible. You can feel the tension with some groups of fans - even if nothing is actually happening you know it won't take much to start them off. But things aren't as bad as they used to be, now we have all-seater stadiums, because a lot of the trouble came from the terraces where people were standing all the time and getting into fights.

   Remember Hillsborough as well, the Sunday papers the next day had the same image of a group of people(some clearly teens) just crammed face-first against what appeared to be a wire fence. Madness.

    I remember a report about the Bradford City inferno that said the stands were in disrepair to begin with and a thorough cleaning underneath hadn't taken place since possibly 1975 or earlier. Lots of torn tickets/newspapers igniting.

[trostol]

Some of the rivalry between Dutch domestic teams can be pretty toxic.  There are some teams which have a high proportion of Jewish fans, like Ajax, and rival teams make this hissing noise to mimic the sound of the gas chambers. Un-fucking-believable. Even we don't go that far over here, I don't think.

i heard some of those Old Firm matches were brutal

[SredniVashtar]

I think, could be wrong, he was talking about the English behavior during the Euros (late 90's? early 2000's? In Belgium? And the UEFA Cup around then in Denmark?) Epic. Crazyness.  How about Rangers vs the City of Manchester proper, not the soccer team Zenit who beat them. Wow. That was crazy. People almost knee deep in empty bottles and cans afterwards. Judge saying worst damage done since the Blitz. I say unite the Firms, Ultras, etc across Europe and set them against the Muslim radicals since the politicians and police won't stop it.

But this isn't some hooligans in their cups. It is Muslims, once again, practicing the religion of peace. Hopefully this will wake up Europe, but I doubt it. Horrible.

No, he was  talking about '85, the match between Liverpool and Juventus where lots of people were killed. The Old Firm derbies in Glasgow are notoriously tasty for all involved, with added religious bigotry. I am sure we know who the people responsible are in this case, I just can't see an obvious solution. It is fine to say 'kick them out' or whatever, or 'send them all back' but I don't think it even articulates the depth of the problem, let alone does anything to solve it.

[Eddie Coyle]

   Hollande apparently closing France's borders, limiting/restricting travel.

[SredniVashtar]

   Remember Hillsborough as well, the Sunday papers the next day had the same image of a group of people(some clearly teens) just crammed face-first against what appeared to be a wire fence. Madness.

    I remember a report about the Bradford City inferno that said the stands were in disrepair to begin with and a thorough cleaning underneath hadn't taken place since possibly 1975 or earlier. Lots of torn tickets/newspapers igniting.

I remember the Hillsborough picture vividly. That's still quite a fresh wound in Liverpool, even today. Standing on the terraces sounds nice and nostalgic to people now, who complain that everything is too bland and family friendly, but tell that to the people who would find that someone had pissed in their coat pocket during the match, or had their face punched in because they were standing in the wrong part of the ground and accidentally cheered for the wrong team.

[Eddie Coyle]

   The Eagles of Death Metal have a new found fame that they didn't need.

[albrecht]

I am sure we know who the people responsible are in this case, I just can't see an obvious solution. It is fine to say 'kick them out' or whatever, or 'send them all back' but I don't think it even articulates the depth of the problem, let alone does anything to solve it.

Genetically targeted bioweapon? Kidding, of course!! Yeah, in a free society, especially a multicultural society, there will always be aberrations and crime but we can try to limit its extension to mass terrorism by proper profiling, sealing borders and checking travel documents, making certain things illegal (we can't do it here due to our Constitution as interpreted but maybe there one could) ban mosques, garb, Muslim schools, not allow "refugees," any immigrants don't have same rights as native born (tracking, surveillance, bank account monitoring, one-strike you're out policy- if anyone in their family commits an offense the whole family is kicked out etc.) Eliminate subsidized housing or any public assistance. Force their children, even girls, to attend public schools- or heck even parochial schools! Maybe even some one-time payment and a one-way ticket for any Muslim who wants to return home (if we can't/won't kick them out.)

[trostol]

I remember the Hillsborough picture vividly. That's still quite a fresh wound in Liverpool, even today. Standing on the terraces sounds nice and nostalgic to people now, who complain that everything is too bland and family friendly, but tell that to the people who would find that someone had pissed in their coat pocket during the match, or had their face punched in because they were standing in the wrong part of the ground and accidentally cheered for the wrong team.

and it is still being investigated to this day if i recall no?

[Art_s Farts]

   The Eagles of Death Metal have a new found fame that they didn't need.

They'll always be the Pigeons of Shit Metal to me