Latest French Attacks: updates (in English)

[Yorkshire pud]

The Unicorn King declared ISIS contained on Friday morning.

http://www.breitbart.com/video/2015/11/13/obama-isis-is-not-getting-stronger-we-have-contained-them/

What a complete jackass this man is.

But he did go on to say:

“What we have not yet been able to do is to completely decapitate their command and control structures,” he admitted. “We’ve made some progress in trying to reduce the flow of foreign fighters and part our goal has to be to recruit more effective Sunni partners in Iraq to really go on offense rather than simply engage in defense.”

[bateman]

https://twitter.com/yannikouts/status/665555110467084289

[Uncle Duke]

It's great Hollywood isn't it? Unfortunately in the REALWORLDâ,,¢ it doesn't work the way scriptwriters have it, and what usually happens is that uncoordinated firearm discharges from many directions at many targets usually end in a bloodbath.

Are you aware the first armed responders to the attack at the mall in Kenya were a couple off-duty plainclothes cops and a small number (3? 4?) of ordinary citizens legally carrying concealed handguns?  They didn't take out any of the terrorists, but they did provide cover fire that allowed several people to get out of the mall.

There is a truly remarkable documentary film about the Nairobi attack, "Terror at the Mall" is the title I think.  They actually interview one of the cops, and one of the concealed carry holders.  Ironically, both were Muslim.

[Yorkshire pud]

Are you aware the first armed responders to the attack at the mall in Kenya were a couple off-duty plainclothes cops and a small number (3? 4?) of ordinary citizens legally carrying concealed handguns?  They didn't take out any of the terrorists, but they did provide cover fire that allowed several people to get out of the mall.

At least one was an SAS officer. Someone used to live round practicing in cqb situations, with panicking and confused civvies around-it's one of the things they train for. They discharge more live rounds in one day each, than most police officers do all year. What are the chances the average civvie in that situation will be able to do the same thing and not kill the wrong person or make a difficult situation much worse?

There is a truly remarkable documentary film about the Nairobi attack, "Terror at the Mall" is the title I think.  They actually interview one of the cops, and one of the concealed carry holders.  Ironically, both were Muslim.

It's a one off and fortunately the right people at the right time were there; Most civvies wouldn't manage it.

[Uncle Duke]

At least one was an SAS officer. Someone used to live round practicing in cqb situations, with panicking and confused civvies around-it's one of the things they train for. They discharge more live rounds in one day each, than most police officers do all year. What are the chances the average civvie in that situation will be able to do the same thing and not kill the wrong person or make a difficult situation much worse?

It's a one off and fortunately the right people at the right time were there; Most civvies wouldn't manage it.

Just pointing out a REALWORLD situation that did occur. What would happen next time is unknown, but these people did manage it.

There is a scene in the documentary where a white man, maybe late 40s, is arguing with the Kenyan on-scene commander.  He's begging the cop to let him go into the mall, at one point he says something like "I'm a soldier, let me go in there, I know I can save people".  I wonder if he was your former SAS officer?  If so, he obviously found a way into the mall.

[VtaGeezer]

As we post in our high dudgeon, Raqqah still has municipal water and sewer, cell service, land phones, internet cafes, Islamic courts and bus service.  All I can say is WTF?

[Eddie Coyle]

I agree.  My daughter and her husband have Bengals season tickets, they get either wanded or patted down before entering the stadium at every game.  Conversely, I've been to hundreds of college football games at every level across the country and have never gotten anything but cursory glances from any stadium security or police officer.  They are looking for booze, not weapons.  Of course that could change.

      I'm hoping that changes, but fear that will take an example. There are NCAA hoops/hockey games in Boston where the arena's security are rent a cops getting 10 bucks an hour and or student athletes. And yes, booze possession is far and away priority one.

     The NFL will definitely step up security this weekend.

[paladin1991]

At least one was an SAS officer. Someone used to live round practicing in cqb situations, with panicking and confused civvies around-it's one of the things they train for. They discharge more live rounds in one day each, than most police officers do all year. What are the chances the average civvie in that situation will be able to do the same thing and not kill the wrong person or make a difficult situation much worse?

It's a one off and fortunately the right people at the right time were there; Most civvies wouldn't manage it.

There is always the risk of being/getting killed.  Does one 'chance it' or just wait until his captors decide his fate? 

You come across as anti-gun.  And anti-resistance. No BS here, if your family was in this or a similar situation, what action would you take?  Or would you wait it out and hope that they didn't have fun with your children while the 'professionals' negotiate?  This is not to flame you, I am truly curious about your mindset.

I honestly believe that an armed populace is a deterrent to crime and terrorism.  A population that trains up a mindset of 'resistance by whatever means' is a dangerous prospect, indeed.

[paladin1991]

It's a one off and fortunately the right people at the right time were there; Most civvies wouldn't manage it.

Apparently, as in france, they don't have the mindset or desire to be anything other than victims.  Ces't le vie, baby.

[paladin1991]

As we post in our high dudgeon, Raqqah still has municipal water and sewer, cell service, land phones, internet cafes, Islamic courts and bus service.  All I can say is WTF?

Indeed.

[Eddie Coyle]

   Tactical nukes will be used in Syria/Iraq within the next two years. It's a just a question of who uses them.

[SredniVashtar]

There is always the risk of being/getting killed.  Does one 'chance it' or just wait until his captors decide his fate? 

There are multliple assumptions there:

1) It is only his own life he would be risking, and not anyone else through the consequences of his own rash actions.

2) He is adequately trained to use a weapon

3) He is trained to use it in a crisis situation, and has the nerve to translate it to a live event

4) He has exceptional spatial awareness and reactions to ensure that his actions will be targeting the culprits and not a hair trigger response that brings down multiple civilians while barely touching the genuine attackers.

The whole 'armed populace' thing is fine until one looks at the variables that make it extremely unlikely to end in your favour.

[paladin1991]

There are multliple assumptions there:

1) It is only his own life he would be risking, and not anyone else through the consequences of his own rash actions.

2) He is adequately trained to use a weapon

3) He is trained to use it in a crisis situation, and has the nerve to translate it to a live event

4) He has exceptional spatial awareness and reactions to ensure that his actions will be targeting the culprits and not a hair trigger response that brings down multiple civilians while barely touching the genuine attackers.

The whole 'armed populace' thing is fine until one looks at the variables that make it extremely unlikely to end in your favour.

*sigh*  Another fucking lawyer.  I asked a pair of questions.  You want to add all these factors into the equation.  Let me add another relevant one, 'What if the mall has no food court, are the ppl holding you still bad guys or are they merely suffering fm low blood sugar?'

[chefist]

*sigh*  Another fucking lawyer.  I asked a pair of questions.  You want to add all these factors into the equation.  Let me add another relevant one, 'What if the mall has no food court, are the ppl holding you still bad guys or are they merely suffering fm low blood sugar?'

Yea, all we need to do is call a lawyer or liberal to come to our aid when it's time to defend ourselves and our families! I can here it now, "Well, yes, you and your family will not be able to defend yourselves, and you will die, but it's in the public good."

[albrecht]

There are multliple assumptions there:

1) It is only his own life he would be risking, and not anyone else through the consequences of his own rash actions.

2) He is adequately trained to use a weapon

3) He is trained to use it in a crisis situation, and has the nerve to translate it to a live event

4) He has exceptional spatial awareness and reactions to ensure that his actions will be targeting the culprits and not a hair trigger response that brings down multiple civilians while barely touching the genuine attackers.

The whole 'armed populace' thing is fine until one looks at the variables that make it extremely unlikely to end in your favour.

I'd rather have a civilian carrying who is ex-military, for example, than many police (who train very little actually.) We have, thank you constant war-policy, a lot of veterans around. I encourage them to stay armed and profile people and stand ready. But in any event when confronted I'll take the risk of an errant shot by a 'civilian' than the sure-shot of the Muslim terrorist. Even if it makes the Muslim wait a split second before shooting someone else- that might be enough for others to escape, a police sniper to take a shot, someone to rush him, etc. If you are going to die, die on your feet not knees. I still am more "afraid" of drunk and bad drivers, illegal aliens (who also love to drink and drive,) floods, tornadoes, urban "youths" etc than terrorists and/or Muslims because more statistically possible, but clearly we should control our borders and second guess policies such as encouraging and importing "refugees" and Muslim militants.

[Juan]

   Tactical nukes will be used in Syria/Iraq within the next two years. It's a just a question of who uses them.

A pissed off Hillary would use them in a second.

[chefist]

Can't wait to see how the administration shows its support for France after this attack...

https://youtu.be/kuWEkUcS0lI

[Eddie Coyle]

A pissed off Hillary would use them in a second.

   "Shut the fuck up, Bill. I'm doing what you should have done in '93, you pussy"

[Uncle Duke]

A pissed off Hillary would use them in a second.

If she didn't nuke Bill after he got caught with his cigar in the cookie jar, I think Syria is safe.

[VtaGeezer]

I honestly believe that an armed populace is a deterrent to crime and terrorism.  A population that trains up a mindset of 'resistance by whatever means' is a dangerous prospect, indeed.

The operative word in your comment is "train".  I don't believe that a bunch of people packing 9mms with an NRA CCW course card would have made a bit of difference in Paris, except to draw heavy automatic fire to those around them.  Even in military training, its rare to receive training for such situations.  A guy with a 9mm may stop an intruder in the kitchen. Thinking he's a defense against organized and trained fighters with assault rifles is the stuff of movies Stephan Steven Seagal movies.

[Eddie Coyle]

  Even in military training, its rare to receive training for such situations.  A guy with a 9mm may stop an intruder in the kitchen. Thinking he's a defense against organized and trained fighters with assault rifles is the stuff of movies Stephan Seagal movies.

   But you're accruing each bad guy's assault rifle with well placed karate kicks to orderly terrorists who attack one at a time, usually in a straight line. It looks pretty easy in the movies. I can do it too.

[VtaGeezer]

   Tactical nukes will be used in Syria/Iraq within the next two years. It's a just a question of who uses them.

I think it's more likely ISIS will get their hands on a 40 KT device from the ISI Islamists in Pakistan.

[VtaGeezer]

   But you're accruing each bad guy's assault rifle with well placed karate kicks to orderly terrorists who attack one at a time, usually in a straight line. It looks pretty easy in the movies. I can do it too.

The bad guys know karate too...or haven't you seen the ISIS videos?

[albrecht]

I think it's more likely ISIS will get their hands on a 40 KT device from the ISI Islamists in Pakistan.

More likely a 'dirty bomb' using material from some of the hospitals and engineering facilities over-run first. On the good side, we can hope to inflame the region into intercine warfare and ethnic conflict and feuds, maybe? If we can stop them at the borders and keep them contained in their regions and maybe arm selectively different tribes, sects, etc? And get them to kill each other off? Muslims enjoy fighting amongst themselves even more than killing others.

[chefist]

Liberal gun control solution for self defence...

[Eddie Coyle]

I think it's more likely ISIS will get their hands on a 40 KT device from the ISI Islamists in Pakistan.

  Quite likely. Hopefully, India gets a green light and gets their wish.

   I think an ISIS nuke via Pakistan detonated in the USA, could actually lead us to consider rebuking our great ally Pakistan. They make the Saudis look like Australia.

[Eddie Coyle]

The bad guys know karate too...or haven't you seen the ISIS videos?

   Well, that doesn't seem fair. Usually in the movie, the token Asian guy has only that skill.

[VtaGeezer]

     I think an ISIS nuke via Pakistan detonated in the USA, could actually lead us to consider rebuking our great ally Pakistan. They make the Saudis look like Australia.

Agreed.  A friend of mine who worked for the Navy spent months in Karachi engineering the installation of US systems on Pak ships...and except for R&R runs to Dubai every few weeks he wasn't permitted to leave his hotel because Paks love Americans so much.

[Eddie Coyle]

Agreed.  A friend of mine who worked for the Navy spent months in Karachi engineering the installation of US systems on Pak ships...and except for R&R runs to Dubai every few weeks he wasn't permitted to leave his hotel because Paks love Americans so much.

    The psychosis of Cold War thinking is perhaps most blatant in our relations with Pakistan. A perennial tinderbox, Islamists safe haven and support system and often the source of Afganistan's problems. The cord should have been cut when Zia died in '88. Every leader of theirs has been a corrupt, dubious, if not treacherous ally including the sainted Bhutto. Pakistan's atrocities toward The West are countless...and yet India was considered the unreliable "problem".

     We're screwed.

[3OctaveFart]