Art Bell

[Lt.Uhura]

The ACA is a compromise, and not without problems.  Namely, the insurance industry's continued power to dictate costs. Single-payer would be the most cost effective way to provide health insurance to the greatest number of people, but the insurance lobbyists and their cronies in DC won't ever allow that.

Also, it should be obvious to all that the least healthiest states (many of which are Red) are among those who offer little to no health insurance.  Of course any decent health care plan would include regular out-patient care focused on prevention (versus expensive ER/hospitalization).  But saving money on health care would make too much sense for the idiots in Washington.

[21st Century Man]

Yep, many people are opting out of health care altogether since Obamacare went into place.  Who can afford it?  Better to pay office visits out-of-pocket and have some catastrophic health care coverage.  For now the fine is an acceptable alternative than actually paying huge insurance premiums.

[paladin1991]

Two years in and I am still paying the same rate. $199 per month for their best plan.

Is it as 'good' as your Cobra?  Better?   

[Astrid Galactic]

Yes I'm right, that's why some healthy people choose the lower cost "Bronze" plans which don't cover as much and have a higher deductible (not as high as before Obamacare though). Because if they get cancer or something they can still only be charged a maximum out-of-pocket around 5k or 6k a year depending on the plan, and not hundreds of thousands of dollars.

I do agree however that since healthcare is mandatory now, that the pricing should be lower. But I think you're sadly mistaken if you think Trump or any other Republican is going to offer any kind of plan which is better. Their only "plan" is to allow people to buy insurance across state lines. More "free market" bullshit.

That big 'IF' they get cancer. In the meantime, IF they buy into the ACA, bronze or otherwise, how the hell are all these people stuck in part time crappy paying jobs supposed to pay for rent, food, inflated utilities, etc.? I don't know about where you live but these people (most in this town) absolutely cannot do both. Even those with full time jobs are having an extremely difficult time. Many of them are even forgoing actually using their plans because they can't afford their deductibles, copays, etc.. I hear stories all the time and have my own problems.

Sometimes going without a crappy insurance plan is better for one's health so that they have the bare essentials of survival. I know an awful lot of people in that position.

[21st Century Man]

The ACA is a compromise, and not without problems.  Namely, the insurance industry's continued power to dictate costs. Single-payer would be the most cost effective way to provide health insurance to the greatest number of people, but the insurance lobbyists and their cronies in DC won't ever allow that.

Also, it should be obvious to all that the least healthiest states (many of which are Red) are among those who offer little to no health insurance.  Of course any decent health care plan would include regular out-patient care focused on prevention (versus expensive ER/hospitalization).  But saving money on health care would make too much sense for the idiots in Washington.

I don't know what the answer is but I think it would be best if the government got out of the health care business altogether.  That won't happen though.  Too many people want to suck on the government's teat. I do think that Obamacare was installed by the Democrats as a stepping stone to a single payer system.  Frankly, I'd settle for any system that allowed citizens the freedom to choose their doctor and at the same time lowered costs to a minimum.

[GravitySucks]

Is it as 'good' as your Cobra?  Better?

It is different. You can't smoke. $500 deductible per "incident" - meaning if you get sick you pay the first $500. If you get sick the next day with something different you pay the first $500 for that "incident". It doesn't cover prescriptions, but they do have a discount card. It covers up to $1 million per "incident".

My COBRA was $470 per month and $2500 deductible. If I had known about these plans I never would have paid the COBRA for 18 months.

I am healthier than most people my age. No medications and I have never smoked and I don't drink.

There are several of these networks that were written into the ACA.

Here is an article describing them: http://www.cnbc.com/id/100935430

This is the one I chose: http://www.libertyhealthshare.org/

[136 or 142]

I don't know what the answer is but I think it would be best if the government got out of the health care business altogether.  That won't happen though.  Too many people want to suck on the government's teat. I

Just like you want to waste God knows how much in taxpayer's money so that your easily frightened self can feel secure at night from non existent or barely existent threats.

[GravitySucks]

The ACA is a compromise, and not without problems.  Namely, the insurance industry's continued power to dictate costs. Single-payer would be the most cost effective way to provide health insurance to the greatest number of people, but the insurance lobbyists and their cronies in DC won't ever allow that.

Also, it should be obvious to all that the least healthiest states (many of which are Red) are among those who offer little to no health insurance.  Of course any decent health care plan would include regular out-patient care focused on prevention (versus expensive ER/hospitalization).  But saving money on health care would make too much sense for the idiots in Washington.

One thing you may not know, or may not realize is that most large corporations were self-insured before the ACA. I am sure most still are. The insurance companies were just acting as gatekeepers and administrators. When ACA hit, these companies could not continue offering the same benefits at the same costs. Mainly because the government mandated what had to be covered. The people that had employer-provided plans saw their costs go way up the first year.

[GravitySucks]

Just like you want to waste God knows how much in taxpayer's money so that your easily frightened self can feel secure at night from non existent or barely existent threats.

You are exceptionally tedious tonight.

[21st Century Man]

Just like you want to waste God knows how much in taxpayer's money so that your easily frightened self can feel secure at night from non existent or barely existent threats.

That is the role of the federal government in our Constitution.  Health care isn't.  Stay in Canada if you don't like it.

[136 or 142]

You are exceptionally tedious tonight.

You are exceptionally tedious tonight and every night.  And every day...

[GravitySucks]

You are exceptionally tedious tonight and every night.  And every day...

No. you are.

[136 or 142]

That is the role of the federal government in our Constitution.  Health care isn't.  Stay in Canada if you don't like it.

That doesn't make every dollar spent on the military wise, Trumptard retard.

Can't take a Canadian replying to your idiotic comments?

[136 or 142]

No. you are.

I know you are, but what am I?

[21st Century Man]

No. you are.

Let's do it the democratic way.  Who here thinks 136 or 142 is being especially tedious tonight?  I agree that he is.  That is two votes to one.  This poll will stay open for comments until the bottom of the hour.

[21st Century Man]

That doesn't make every dollar spent on the military wise, Trumptard retard.

Can't take a Canadian replying to your idiotic comments?

And it is especially not wise for the federal govt. to interfere in every aspect of our lives, Hill shill fluffer.

[136 or 142]

And it is especially not wise for the federal govt. to interfere in every aspect of our lives, Hill shill fluffer.

Absolutely right.  Like all governments shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies.  They shouldn't tell adults who they can and can't marry.

[21st Century Man]

Absolutely right.  Like all governments shouldn't tell women what they can do with their bodies.  They shouldn't tell adults who they can and can't marry.

I agree. It is none of the government's business to tell us how to live.  However, if another life is being harmed due to another person's "freedom" then there may be a place for some regulations.

[136 or 142]

I agree. It is none of the government's business to tell us how to live.  However, if another life is being harmed due to another person's "freedom" then there may be a place for some regulations.

Yes, like how people are being harmed due to global warming from other people burning fossil fuels. Pricing the externality is the best way to address that though.

[Lt.Uhura]

One thing you may not know, or may not realize is that most large corporations were self-insured before the ACA. I am sure most still are. The insurance companies were just acting as gatekeepers and administrators. When ACA hit, these companies could not continue offering the same benefits at the same costs. Mainly because the government mandated what had to be covered. The people that had employer-provided plans saw their costs go way up the first year.

I work in an Emergency Room.  Before Obama, just prior to and during the recession, there were huge layoffs. Many of those who lost their jobs lost their health insurance as well.  When these employees were either rehired, or hired by other companies, it was often part-time, or in non-benefited positions. 

Decades ago, Henry J. Kaiser had a brilliant idea.  When he assembled a workforce to build the Hoover Dam, he found it was cost-effective to provide healthcare for his employees and their families.  Imagine that!  A healthy workforce was cost-effective!  But sadly, those days are long gone.

A single payer healthcare system could always be sliding scale based on income, such that everyone except the disabled contributes something.  No freebies, but contributing to the system and giving people a stake in their own well-being. 

[21st Century Man]

Yes, like how people are being harmed due to global warming from other people burning fossil fuels. Pricing the externality is the best way to address that though.

That is being theoretical not factual.

[136 or 142]

That is being theoretical not factual.

Which part?

[21st Century Man]

Which part?

What you said.

[Astrid Galactic]

The ACA is a compromise, and not without problems.  Namely, the insurance industry's continued power to dictate costs. Single-payer would be the most cost effective way to provide health insurance to the greatest number of people, but the insurance lobbyists and their cronies in DC won't ever allow that.

Also, it should be obvious to all that the least healthiest states (many of which are Red) are among those who offer little to no health insurance.  Of course any decent health care plan would include regular out-patient care focused on prevention (versus expensive ER/hospitalization).  But saving money on health care would make too much sense for the idiots in Washington.

The fact that they let the insurance companies write the plan was absurd. Of course they were going to gouge us, be it the people, the employers or the Feds.

You hit on prevention which is so extremely over-looked in most allopathic healthcare (regular healthcare, as most know it). They don't want to do that for several reasons. As much as I hate to say this, we've all heard many of the reasons on C2C with the Snoore. His shows might suck but some of those guests do offer hints as to things we should be doing to take care of ourselves. My personal philosophy is that I am responsible for my health 1st and foremost. My doctor, at best, is only 2nd. Sometimes I think not having health insurance has been a blessing for me because I've learned how to take care of myself and don't take all those drugs that so many older adults I know are messed up on.

We have a free AARP healthfare every year that I make a point of attending. Supposedly, it's the largest one in the country. (Don't know if it's true.) They are very lax as to whom they allow in with the idea that the more they service, the better. That's when I get all kinds of free tests. Once I get the results, I then study them a bit more online. My health is actually pretty good but there are a few things I know to watch out for and tend to to keep things under control. But, like I said, I'm the one responsible for my health, not another entity.

[136 or 142]

What you said.

Which part of what I said?

[21st Century Man]

Which part of what I said?

This is tiresome.  Your whole statement saying that burning fossil fuels is harming humanity.  That is only true if you believe in the CO2 nonsense.  Burning fossil fuels also helps us live our day-to-day lives in relative comfort.  If you pit the benefits against the costs, fossil fuels benefit us far more that whatever costs may accrue.   

[GravitySucks]

I work in an Emergency Room.  Before Obama, just prior to and during the recession, there were huge layoffs. Many of those who lost their jobs lost their health insurance as well.  When these employees were either rehired, or hired by other companies, it was often part-time, or in non-benefited positions. 

Decades ago, Henry J. Kaiser had a brilliant idea.  When he assembled a workforce to build the Hoover Dam, he found it was cost-effective to provide healthcare for his employees and their families.  Imagine that!  A healthy workforce was cost-effective!  But sadly, those days are long gone.

A single payer healthcare system could always be sliding scale based on income, such that everyone except the disabled contributes something.  No freebies, but contributing to the system and giving people a stake in their own well-being.

If single-payer is the ultimate answer, I can't say I have an issue. I do have an issue how the ACA was jammed down our throats without debate - and now as the facts come out - designed to fail to force a single payer system.

You can't just rip apart what had been about 20% of our economy overnight and expect it to be smooth. And if you don't think insurance company lobbyists were involved in crafting parts of teh ACA I think you are mistaken.

If it ends up being like the VA system it will not be the ultimate answer.

I'm a vet and I refuse to use the VA system.

[comaphobe]

fossil fuels ?? fuel from fossils?? david suzuki, is that you again?? human hater. human hater.

[theONE]

That is the role of the federal government in our Constitution.  Health care isn't.  Stay in Canada if you don't like it.

lol

[136 or 142]

This is tiresome.  Your whole statement saying that burning fossil fuels is harming humanity.  That is only true if you believe in the CO2 nonsense.

The second part of my statement was that putting a price on the fossil fuels was the best way way to address the externality.

This is you when it comes to the credibility you have on what is and isn't nonsense:
All the allegations against The Trump Thing are speculation, even the myriad times it's been successfully sued civilly and been fined criminally, and even though it admitted to being a serial sexual assaulter.

All the allegations against Hillary Clinton are true even though she's never been charged criminally or sued civilly.

I think we know who's the one peddling nonsense, and it's you, you Trumptard Retard.