Grand Jury decision in "Gentle Giant" or "Thug" police killing made.

[VtaGeezer]

My basic objection is that the GJ's job is to determine probable cause to indict, not to hold a secret trial, which is what this looks like.  The Wilson case was far too significant to be presented in secret in a wholly one-sided GJ action, where the county prosecutor; who has a standing, often personal, relationship with local police, controls the entire proceedings. I once served on a GJ for three months. Regardless what you think of their motives or honesty; these are laymen of varied backgrounds and education who rely on the prosecutor's staff for criminal law advice. They're not trained criminal investigators. From the beginning, the actions of this GJ were suspect; e.g. allowing the accused Wilson to testify for 4 hours with no questions from an advocate for the victim's perspective.   If this had been any other kind of shooting case, the evidence was ample for probable cause to take Wilson to trial where the facts could be scrutinized publicly in broad daylight, with legal and forensic expertise on both sides of the questions. 

[b_dubb]

Punching a cop should receive a lethal response? And you call that good policing? A copper here shooting an armed suspect is automatically referred to the IPCC to establish the circumstances. An armed copper shooting someone who punched him would be likely charged with murder.

I'm not even convinced that Brown ever punched Wilson.  I would expect a blow from a guy the size and presumed strength of Brown would crack some teeth, flatten a nose, blacken an eye, maybe break a jaw.  Wilson looks unharmed in the pics at the emergency room.  And the doctor's report basically indicates he has no injuries. 


There was an incident in Cincinnati where a Cinci cop shot a suspect in the back as they were running away.  That cop was exonerated.  And there was a massive riot. 


How many times does this scenario have to repeat before IT FUCKING STOPS?

[b_dubb]

Cops in the UK carry guns?

Seriously though, yes. 
Punch a cop, get shot.
Put it on a t-shirt.

I can see you've put a lot of thought into this.  Maybe you'd be happier in Russia or some banana republic where law and order is determined solely by how much cash you have on hand to bribe police and other officials.

You like to paint yourself as a patriot.  The sentiment you express here isn't very American.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness

[The General]

I can see you've put a lot of thought into this.  Maybe you'd be happier in Russia or some banana republic where law and order is determined solely by how much cash you have on hand to bribe police and other officials.

You like to paint yourself as a patriot.  The sentiment you express here isn't very American.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/declaration_transcript.html

Thanks for the non-sequiturs.
What do you think will happen if you punch a cop who tells you not to jaywalk.
What is he going to say? "Sorry, my mistake.  I thought you were black."
Think about it b-dubb. 

[Yorkshire pud]

KO'd cop = dead cop if the thug uses the cop's gun to shoot him.

If? Since when has fortune telling been presented as evidence to defend potential murder? If I'd not run him over in the street he may have got in his car later and run me over...and that's my defence. Nope.

Lots of bodies in the ground for punches to the head also.


This was not a typical drunk pub patron in Merry Old England.   This was a huge thug who was either on an adrenaline Rush from evading the robbery, or on some sort of drug.  Possibly both.

You clearly haven't been out in a city centre on a friday or saturday night/early morning when the clubs are throwing out. Trust me, our cops deal with similar every fucking weekend, but they don't get the armed response team out to shoot people, on drugs/ booze or whatever. I'm not saying he shouldn't have been apprehended and dealt with and charged with robbery. But shooting him was suspect.

You take those two punches and see if you are not wondering if the third will leave you unconscious......

Brown made a long series of poor decisions leading to his demise that day.   Changing any one of them would had left him alive.  Escalating his encounter with Wilson and trying to steal a cornered cop's gun is what did him in.  The skin either of them were born with has nothing to do with the events that lead up to his encounter that day.

I never mentioned skin. But the cop also made bad decisions.

[Yorkshire pud]

Cops in the UK carry guns?

Some do, yes. But not all; and it's their choice too. Last few votes the police federation have had to test the water, the vast majority of coppers don't want to be armed.

Seriously though, yes. 
Punch a cop, get shot.
Put it on a t-shirt.

Then your country really is fucked.

[Yorkshire pud]

Thanks for the non-sequiturs.
What do you think will happen if you punch a cop who tells you not to jaywalk.
What is he going to say? "Sorry, my mistake.  I thought you were black."
Think about it b-dubb.

If it gets to the point where the cop is punched in such a scenario, the cop hasn't thought it through has he? There is such a thing as training to disarm and render an assailant immobile without killing him. Even nurses in psychiatric hospitals know how to do that. irrespective how big he is.

[SciFiAuthor]

This is interesting as another member earlier called me a racist for pointing out it's a dangerous area so it might affect the mindset of cops on the beat there, i.e. they might be more on guard and respond more decisively to perceived threats.  This inferred racism from my statement seems to say more about that member's predjudice than mine.  Violence is violence, regardless of race.

Sure, and you can get yourself into trouble walking around a white low lot rent trailer park. Dangerous areas are dangerous areas and toxic subcultures form in those areas that are the real problem. It has nothing to do with race, or even mainstream culture, but the gangsta and drug subcultures. Unfortunately, it seems to be merging with the protester/activist subculture in this case meaning that a whole lot of moron college kids are down in Ferguson providing an endless supply of Iphones to steal.

[VtaGeezer]

Thanks for the non-sequiturs.
What do you think will happen if you punch a cop who tells you not to jaywalk.
What is he going to say? "Sorry, my mistake.  I thought you were black."
Think about it b-dubb.  If a cop of any race shoots a guy of any other race in my neighborhood, my reaction would be "Thank Christ for the thin blue line."

How is it that the first reaction of a kid with no serious police record or record of violence when told by a cop to get out of the street is to violently attack the cop in his patrol car?  It makes no sense.  If you buy the cop's story the question remains; why would Brown so violently attack a cop in broad daylight.  Maybe it's because an 18 yo black guy seeing a cop pull a gun believes, not that he just needs to stop and listen to the cop, but that he's about to die.  And he was right. 

[b_dubb]

Thanks for the non-sequiturs.
What do you think will happen if you punch a cop who tells you not to jaywalk.
What is he going to say? "Sorry, my mistake.  I thought you were black."
Think about it b-dubb.

I'd expect to be arrested. Not executed. 

[b_dubb]

How is it that the first reaction of a kid with no serious police record or record of violence when told by a cop to get out of the street is to violently attack the cop in his patrol car?  It makes no sense.  If you buy the cop's story the question remains; why would Brown so violently attack a cop in broad daylight.  Maybe it's because an 18 yo black guy seeing a cop pull a gun believes, not that he just needs to stop and listen to the cop, but that he's about to die.  And he was right.

There's nothing about this scenario that makes any sense at all. 

[The General]

How is it that the first reaction of a kid with no serious police record or record of violence when told by a cop to get out of the street is to violently attack the cop in his patrol car?  It makes no sense.  If you buy the cop's story the question remains; why would Brown so violently attack a cop in broad daylight.  Maybe it's because an 18 yo black guy seeing a cop pull a gun believes, not that he just needs to stop and listen to the cop, but that he's about to die.  And he was right.

Have you seen the footage of what he was doing 10 minutes earlier?

[b_dubb]

This is interesting as another member earlier called me a racist for pointing out it's a dangerous area so it might affect the mindset of cops on the beat there, i.e. they might be more on guard and respond more decisively to perceived threats.  This inferred racism from my statement seems to say more about that member's predjudice than mine.  Violence is violence, regardless of race.

Your exact words from the chat transcript:

<zeebo> true but the riots do go to the state of the communtity the cops are dealing with, jus sayin

My response :

<@b_dubb> you sound a little racist zeebo

There's a little drift in your story.  I stand by my statement. 

[b_dubb]

Have you seen the footage of what he was doing 10 minutes earlier?

I have. Not sure what that has to do with him being shot 6 times by a cop.

[Gd5150]

Even black witnesses testified the kid charged the cop. After he was told repeatedly to stop. When you have someone 6'4 charging you, no backup, your draw your weapon and fire. Cops don't get second chances.

The ignorance of the evidence from the lefttards on here coincides with their overall knowledge of the world. It's not their fault, you can't expect SNL or the Daily Show to break down the evidence for them to a point where a 3yo can understand it.

Now read the gran jury and STFU. Sorry it's not a more impartial source like Bill Maher.
http://abcnews.go.com/US/crucial-pieces-evidence-ferguson-grand-jury/story?id=27163048

[SciFiAuthor]

How is it that the first reaction of a kid with no serious police record or record of violence when told by a cop to get out of the street is to violently attack the cop in his patrol car?  It makes no sense.  If you buy the cop's story the question remains; why would Brown so violently attack a cop in broad daylight.  Maybe it's because an 18 yo black guy seeing a cop pull a gun believes, not that he just needs to stop and listen to the cop, but that he's about to die.  And he was right.

He'd assaulted a convenience store clerk on camera ten minutes before he died and stole $48 worth of cigarillos. Sounds like a guy looking for trouble to me, especially considering that he was holding the stolen goods when the cop stopped him and the cop had been alerted that someone had just robbed the convenience store and took some cigarillos.

As to reasoning, well, head to the inner city ask the teens why they've been playing the knock out game. It doesn't make any sense, but I'm sure they'll tell you why they do it just before you go down. When you breed a subculture that thinks prison is great and fuck the police, then bad things happen. Shooting a cop is a badge of honor in that subculture. I mean, one of the most famous rap songs is entitled "Cop Killer" after all.

[The General]

I have. Not sure what that has to do with him being shot 6 times by a cop.

Well, it kinda helps understand his demeanor that day, doesn't it?
Doesn't it shed a little insight into what went down 10 minutes later?

[b_dubb]

Even black witnesses testified the kid charged the cop. After he was told repeatedly to stop. When you have someone 6'4 charging you, no backup, your draw your weapon and fire. Cops don't get second chances.

If I was in my car and Brown charged me I would be required to flee to safety. By law. Even with a concealed carry permit.


I'm betting that textbook police procedure would have Wilson retreat, wait for backup and THEN apprehend Brown and accomplice without bloodshed.





This is not the face of someone who was punched by a 6'4 250 lb man.

[b_dubb]

Well, it kinda helps understand his demeanor that day, doesn't it?
Doesn't it shed a little insight into what went down 10 minutes later?

It says a lot about Brown.  The media tried to paint him as a "gentle giant".  Clearly he was not. 


This is the WORST possible outcome you could have from this scenario.  This is NOT effective law enforcement.  This has happened time and time again.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/shock-video-darren-wilson-violates-1st-amendment-ill-lock-ass-up-arrests-man-filming/


Doesn't this shed a little light on what kind of police officer Wilson really is?  A little drunk with power. 

[The General]

It says a lot about Brown.  The media tried to paint him as a "gentle giant".  Clearly he was not. 


This is the WORST possible outcome you could have from this scenario.  This is NOT effective law enforcement.  This has happened time and time again.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/shock-video-darren-wilson-violates-1st-amendment-ill-lock-ass-up-arrests-man-filming/


Doesn't this shed a little light on what kind of police officer Wilson really is?  A little drunk with power. 

So you think they were both in the wrong.  Ok.  Brown went for Wilson's gun, according to DNA evidence, witness testimony, and Wilson's testiomony.  One of them was going to die.  Sorry it didn't turn out the way you would have liked.

Holy Shit.  Logic is not your specialty, dude.

[bateman]

So you think they were both in the wrong.  Ok.  Brown went for Wilson's gun, according to DNA evidence, witness testimony, and Wilson's testiomony.  One of them was going to die.  Sorry it didn't turn out the way you would have liked.

Holy Shit.  Logic is not your specialty, dude.

I love how every time this tidbit is brought up it's ignored.

[coaster]

the grand jury made the right decision.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

It says a lot about Brown.  The media tried to paint him as a "gentle giant".  Clearly he was not. 


This is the WORST possible outcome you could have from this scenario.  This is NOT effective law enforcement.  This has happened time and time again.


http://thefreethoughtproject.com/shock-video-darren-wilson-violates-1st-amendment-ill-lock-ass-up-arrests-man-filming/


Doesn't this shed a little light on what kind of police officer Wilson really is?  A little drunk with power.

So Wilson is a power hungry cop for arresting someone who is obstructing justice and being a general asshole?  What, in your view, is the role of a police officer?

[b_dubb]

I love how every time this tidbit is brought up it's ignored.

Did he?  I'm supposed to just believe Wilson?  Another reason it would be preferred to have Brown alive. So he could be questioned. 


Why didn't Wilson use his Tazer?
Why is there no video/sound recording of this altercation?


The Ferguson PD has distorted facts about this case from the beginning so why should anyone believe anything they say?  You don't think Ferguson PD wouldn't plant DNA evidence in Wilson's cruiser to help their buddy out of a jam?


You know it would've been a lot easier for Brown to grab Wilson's gun if Wilson had already drawn it.  But that would indicate Wilson kind of jumped the gun.  Pardon the expression.

[coaster]

CNN Stating that Brown's parents are going to be holding another press conference. Why? I don't see the point.

[b_dubb]

So Wilson is a power hungry cop for arresting someone who is obstructing justice and being a general asshole?  What, in your view, is the role of a police officer?

He didn't arrest Brown. He shot him 6 times.  And Ferguson PD has said that Wilson's initial confrontation with Brown had nothing to do with the reported theft at the convenience store.


http://www.dailydot.com/politics/darren-wilson-taser/


Here's why Wilson didn't carry a taser:


http://www.dailydot.com/politics/darren-wilson-taser/

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

He didn't arrest Brown. He shot him 6 times.  And Ferguson PD has said that Wilson's initial confrontation with Brown had nothing to do with the reported theft at the convenience store.


http://www.dailydot.com/politics/darren-wilson-taser/


Here's why Wilson didn't carry a taser:


http://www.dailydot.com/politics/darren-wilson-taser/

I was referring to your video of the man who Wilson arrested because he illegally had three derelict cars on his property and wasn't cooperating with Wilson's investigation.

[b_dubb]

I was referring to your video of the man who Wilson arrested because he illegally had three derelict cars on his property and wasn't cooperating with Wilson's investigation.

Recording the police is equivalent of not cooperating? 

[coaster]

You know who needs to be brought to justice? The looters and rioters. I wonder if Brown's mom and criminal stepfather will mention that in their next pointless press conference.

[GeorgieForPresident2216]

Recording the police is equivalent of not cooperating?

Did you read the report?