Ebola

[albrecht]

I have been trying to decide if there is a normalcy bias problem going on here.  The patients' condition has been upgraded from critical to serious. On the other hand, the news says that two children may have been exposed and that an ER nurse did not exactly follow the right protocol.(I hope that Harborview has been training themselves for a similar scenario in Seattle) It seems that talk show hosts have been a beat behind breaking news lately, but Michael Medved did say that he doesn't think that the Ebola business is too big of a disaster, or words to that effect.  But he has always seemed to be a guy who leans toward normalcy bias, it seems to me.
Ebola may be leveling off in Africa.  So far, people who have it here have a better survival rate than people who have it here, because of better medical care and a variety of other reasons.  But it's still a bad scene, even if the people can be cured.  For one thing, does it perhaps have long-range effects on the individuals, like malaria or those type of illnesses? Also there's the expense and the drain on the healthcare system, especially if it got to be like the Spanish flu epidemic. And what if it coincided with another SHTF event, such as a natural disaster or a terrorist hit, and in the same place?  For example a big hurricane like Katrina, or a terrorist hit, or another disease outbreak.  I noted with interest that one of the children who had that mysterious illness they've been having in Colorado died of staph.

Another thing that I was thinking of today is that around here, anyway, a fair number of immigrants from African  countries work in nursing homes and related jobs in those fields. I don't know how many return home for visits.

You know there was some book and idea that it really was the Spanish Flu that stopped WWI, as it is called now. I forget the name and guy who wrote it but was a legit person. It was a very bad strain and unusual that it killed younger folks. With the horrible war (modern weapons but old tactics) and awful loss of life magnified by the amazing loss of recruits and troops by flu meant war had to end. I recall +|- 50 million killed by the flu n roughly 15 million by the awful war.

[Kelt]

Yeah... yes. It's already mutated, repeatedly.

No-one's saying it doesn't mutate... most viruses will at some point.  What is being said is that it's extremely unlikely that Ebola will change its entire method of transmission.

So yeah... no.

[bateman]

No-one's saying it doesn't mutate... most viruses will at some point.  What is being said is that it's extremely unlikely that Ebola will change its entire method of transmission.

So yeah... no.

Unlikely sure doesn't mean impossible.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

Here we show ZEBOV transmission from pigs to cynomolgus macaques without direct contact.

Under conditions of the current study, transmission of ZEBOV could have occurred either by inhalation (of aerosol or larger droplets), and/or droplet inoculation of eyes and mucosal surfaces and/or by fomites due to droplets generated during the cleaning of the room. Infection of all four macaques in an environment, preventing direct contact between the two species and between the macaques themselves, supports the concept of airborne transmission.

[Kelt]

You know there was some book and idea that it really was the Spanish Flu that stopped WWI, as it is called now. I forget the name and guy who wrote it but was a legit person. It was a very bad strain and unusual that it killed younger folks. With the horrible war (modern weapons but old tactics) and awful loss of life magnified by the amazing loss of recruits and troops by flu meant war had to end. I recall +|- 50 million killed by the flu n roughly 15 million by the awful war.

That or the final series of offensives (The 100 Days Offensive) where the British, French, and Commonwealth forces smashed the German front line and essentially collapsed the entire German army back towards the Hindenburg line. Then the subsequent Australian-led assaults which smashed through the Hindenburg Line, leaving the Germans with no remaining (tenable) defensive position in the face of Allied attacks.

I'm all for hearing alternative ideas, but in this case the Germans were basically done. They were demoralised, they had abandoned masses of heavy equipment, and they had lost their last major line of defensive fortifications.

I read a book, The Blitzkrieg Myth, where the author suggested the NAZIs more or less lucked-out in their offensives in France, rather than the Blitzkrieg being some kind of revolutionary method of rapid, mechanised warfare.  Always open to hearing new and exciting things, I bought it at the airport and started reading it on a transatlantic flight. Last I saw of it was when I dumped it in a garbage can at Heathrow.  If I ever see John Mosier I'm going to demand my money back with menaces.

[Kelt]

Unlikely sure doesn't mean impossible.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

No, highly unlikely doesn't mean impossible, you're absolutely correct.

It's 'highly unlikely' a super-intelligent chimpanzee will learn how to talk and lead his simian friends in an uprising against their human masters... who knows what freaks of nature natural mutation will throw up.  It's not impossible that that could happen.

It's not really worth worrying about the highly unlikely, though. 

[bateman]

No, highly unlikely doesn't mean impossible, you're absolutely correct.

It's 'highly unlikely' a super-intelligent chimpanzee will learn how to talk and lead his simian friends in an uprising against their human masters... who knows what freaks of nature natural mutation will throw up.  It's not impossible that that could happen.

It's not really worth worrying about the highly unlikely, though. 

I can't say I'm worried about it wafting through the streets, but I think it's fair to say it's far more contagious than we're being led to believe.

[Eddie Coyle]

       In retrospect, that upcoming bachelor party weekend in Monrovia was possibly ill conceived.

       Possibly.

[Kelt]

I can't say I'm worried about it wafting through the streets, but I think it's fair to say it's far more contagious than we're being led to believe.

I don't think it's fair to say that at all.

In Africa, probably the best place for a disease like Ebola to take hold, it's doing marginal damage at best, despite the media hysteria.  If it were at all horribly infectious I'd have expected it to be sweeping through African cities like the plague.  In reality total cases reported hasn't even hit 10,000. And it's been an ongoing 'concern' for ten months now.

That hardly speaks of some uber-plague with a high transmission rate.

We have a couple of crappy wars, one of which has fizzled out, and Windows 10 as the major news items right now.  The media needs to plug Ebola as some scary disease that could learn to fly like a magnificent butterfly o doom.' (even though that's highly unlikely to ever happen), otherwise, shit, who wants to watch the news right now? It's dull all over.

The single case in the United States must have been met with a tsunami of orgasms at news outlets across this great land.

[eddie dean]

That hardly speaks of some uber-plague with a high transmission rate.

We have a couple of crappy wars, one of which has fizzled out, and Windows 10 as the major news items right now.  The media needs to plug Ebola as some scary disease that could learn to fly like a magnificent butterfly o doom.' (even though that's highly unlikely to ever happen), otherwise, shit, who wants to watch the news right now? It's dull all over.

The single case in the United States must have been met with a tsunami of orgasms at news outlets across this great land.

What the news outlets need to do is find a sponsor to cross promote during the Ebola news segments, to really drive home the message of imminent peril.
"Ebola hits the US!
brought to you by the new season of The Walking Dead, starts October 12th. Only on AMC"

Too soon?

[Kelt]

What the news outlets need to do is find a sponsor to cross promote during the Ebola news segments, to really drive home the message of imminent peril.
"Ebola hits the US!
brought to you by the new season of The Walking Dead, starts October 12th. Only on AMC"

Too soon?

You're being facetious, but the level of melodramatic nonsense the media outlets are pumping out makes your idea not highly unlikely.

I haven't seen it yet, but I swear to atheist god it's coming... someone's going to speculate that Ebola could mutate, however *cough* unlikely. into a virus that turns its victim into a Zombie. And since Ebola transfers itself via bodily fluids, turning humans into flesh-ripping Zombies would be the PERFECT means for Ebola to transfer itself between hosts. It could happen, it must happen, it WILL HAPPEN!

Just wait till the first Bath Salts nutbag gets a dose of the Ebolas.  Oh, then you'll see the media freakin' spasm itself inside out with joy.

ZOMBOLA!

[HorrorRetro]

       In retrospect, that upcoming bachelor party weekend in Monrovia was possibly ill conceived.

       Possibly.

[eddie dean]

You're being facetious, but the level of melodramatic nonsense the media outlets are pumping out makes your idea not highly unlikely.

I haven't seen it yet, but I swear to atheist god it's coming... someone's going to speculate that Ebola could mutate, however *cough* unlikely. into a virus that turns its victim into a Zombie. And since Ebola transfers itself via bodily fluids, turning humans into flesh-ripping Zombies would be the PERFECT means for Ebola to transfer itself between hosts. It could happen, it must happen, it WILL HAPPEN!

Just wait till the first Bath Salts nutbag gets a dose of the Ebolas.  Oh, then you'll see the media freakin' spasm itself inside out with joy.

ZOMBOLA!

I only have contempt for the news media these days. Their tendency to gin up fears, calling celebrity gossip news, reporting rumors or fragmentary information that hasn't been properly corroborated, towing the political line. Anything to keep viewers watching and buying the products they advertise.
At least we have the internet we can trust for honest and accurate news stories, right? Maybe not.

Zombolas on bath salts! lol

The only way to stop Zombola...

..wait for it.....

beheading.

I'm pretty sure I crossed the line that time!
Sorry internet.

[paladin1991]

You know there was some book and idea that it really was the Spanish Flu that stopped WWI, as it is called now. I forget the name and guy who wrote it but was a legit person. It was a very bad strain and unusual that it killed younger folks. With the horrible war (modern weapons but old tactics) and awful loss of life magnified by the amazing loss of recruits and troops by flu meant war had to end. I recall +|- 50 million killed by the flu n roughly 15 million by the awful war.

Hmmmm.  Don't quote me on this but I seem to recall that the Spanish flu was really a swine flu.  That American soldiers carried the virus to Europe.

Does that ring any bells with  my fellow gabbers?

[area51drone]

No-one's saying it doesn't mutate... most viruses will at some point.  What is being said is that it's extremely unlikely that Ebola will change its entire method of transmission.

So yeah... no.

So fuck... who cares?   None of us know what will happen - not even the so called experts.  The best thing is to get your ducks in a row now, while it's cheap to do so.  It doesn't hurt to buy some non-perishable food, water or water treatment supplies and fuel to have on hand in case of a stay at home order - and that would be good for any disaster, not just a shut down due to a spread of ebola.    Onan would also advise you to get yourself a gun, or 20.

[Yorkshire pud]

So fuck... who cares?   None of us know what will happen - not even the so called experts.  The best thing is to get your ducks in a row now, while it's cheap to do so.  It doesn't hurt to buy some non-perishable food, water or water treatment supplies and fuel to have on hand in case of a stay at home order - and that would be good for any disaster, not just a shut down due to a spread of ebola.    Onan would also advise you to get yourself a gun, or 20.

Yeah cos if the virus don't get yer the bullets will. Either way yer gonna die boy.

[wr250]

Unlikely sure doesn't mean impossible.

http://www.nature.com/srep/2012/121115/srep00811/full/srep00811.html

its equally possible that george noory could do a show like art used to do.
without mush mouthing, re-asking questions already answered etc .

[area51drone]

Yeah cos if the virus don't get yer the bullets will. Either way yer gonna die boy.

[b_dubb]

https://twitter.com/crave/status/517357514862899200

Ebola in Hawaii?

[paladin1991]

Is that a screen capture fm the movie 'Ticked off Trannies?'

[area51drone]

18 people under watch yesterday.  Last night 80.  Now 100 as of this morning.  It's happening folks.  Also, check this out:

UN Ebola Chief says it could go airborne:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2778022/UN-Ebola-chief-raises-nightmare-prospect-virus-mutate-airborne.html


Doctor wears a tyvek suit to the airport with "CDC is lying" written on his back:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/doctor-boards-flight-in-ebola-protection-suit-to-p/nhZk8/

“If they’re not lying, they are grossly incompetent,” said Mobley, a microbiologist and emergency trauma physician from Springfield, Mo.  Mobley said the CDC is “sugar-coating” the risk of the virus spreading in the United States.

Our government or the UN needs to get off it's ass and restrict all travel, via military intervention, to and from these African countries.   If other countries within Africa are already doing it to the infected ones, why aren't we?   There's no reason we can't drop them air supplies and bring in people as necessary to help them, even waive debts if that's necessary to keep their economies afloat.    The way this is being run is preschool at best.

[Yorkshire pud]

18 people under watch yesterday.  Last night 80.  Now 100 as of this morning.  It's happening folks.  Also, check this out:

UN Ebola Chief says it could go airborne:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2778022/UN-Ebola-chief-raises-nightmare-prospect-virus-mutate-airborne.html


Doctor wears a tyvek suit to the airport with "CDC is lying" written on his back:

http://www.ajc.com/news/news/doctor-boards-flight-in-ebola-protection-suit-to-p/nhZk8/

Our government or the UN needs to get off it's ass and restrict all travel, via military intervention, to and from these African countries.   If other countries within Africa are already doing it to the infected ones, why aren't we?   There's no reason we can't drop them air supplies and bring in people as necessary to help them, even waive debts if that's necessary to keep their economies afloat.    The way this is being run is preschool at best.

Is it important now it's in the States.
Just askin.

[area51drone]

Is it important now it's in the States.
Just askin.

It's been important and I haven't said it on bellgab but my wife and I have discussed it many times.  I have always felt that at the first sign of outbreak, a country or area should  be cut off from the rest of the world via military force if necessary.


Hoffman approves.

[FightTheFuture]

That little plot of land out in Idaho I`ve had my eye on is looking better every day.

[VtaGeezer]

I'm not so concerned about the virus mutating as the ongoing demonstration that our bureaucracies are consistently unable to react to a well-known threat.  All of CDC's billions in protective measures were nuetralized by gaping holes in what to most should be obvious medical administrative measures. Ebola migration has been a distinct danger for over a decade; there's a huge outbreak underway.  How is it that a major hospital has all isolation procedures and goodies, and even CDC accreditation, but the ER MD assigned never was informed that the dude with the symptoms was just in a region with an Ebola outbreak?  That he was, a few days before, carrying an Ebola victim to treatment in Monrovia.  It wasn't anyone in the Dallas hospital or Dallas public health that followed up and contacted CDC; it was Ebola Man's nephew!  As with the WH fence jumper, as with ISIL virtually appearing from nowhere, as with NFL stars slugging their wives in public, even going back to 9/11 our worst vulnerability is the cumbersomeness and myopia of our immense bureaucracies. 

[Yorkshire pud]

It's been important and I haven't said it on bellgab but my wife and I have discussed it many times.  I have always felt that at the first sign of outbreak, a country or area should  be cut off from the rest of the world via military force if necessary.

Medican sans frontiers has been asking for international aid since June. Ignored. The African countries that have been the main harbours,  suffer crushing poverty. There is no way it can be treated by them alone; it has to be an international effort. Now all of a sudden five new ebola deaths per hour and a case in the US, it's urgent.
Naturally you take the 'kill the fuckers' stance because like several on here you think in simple terms. That's fine. Just don't be surprised when 'Simpleworld' is only in Marvel comics and the Fantasy channel.

[Kelt]

Do some people NEED to get hysterical at the drop of a hat.

Again, in the wretched, superstitious, third world shithole that is Africa, there have been less than  10,000 Ebola cases in almost a year. To refer to it spreading 'out of control' or 'like wildfire' is beyond hyperbole.

The chances of it 'mutating' into a flying version of itself are 'highly unlikely'... to put that another way...

- But why are experts so confident Ebola won't become airborne? It's worth reading this long post by Vincent Racaniello, a virologist at the College of Physicians and Surgeons at Columbia University.-

He goes into detail about how viruses mutate, but here's his bottom line: "We have been studying viruses for over 100 years, and we've never seen a human virus change the way it is transmitted":

So while it's not impossible for Ebola to change its means of transferal there's no known precedent for it to do so... so why would Ebola be the exception?  Because it sells newspapers and gets viewers.

Some people need to wind their necks in and wring out their panties.

[Tarbaby]

I'm not so concerned about the virus mutating as the ongoing demonstration that our bureaucracies are consistently unable to react to a well-known threat.  All of CDC's billions in protective measures were nuetralized by gaping holes in what to most should be obvious medical administrative measures. Ebola migration has been a distinct danger for over a decade; there's a huge outbreak underway.  How is it that a major hospital has all isolation procedures and goodies, and even CDC accreditation, but the ER MD assigned never was informed that the dude with the symptoms was just in a region with an Ebola outbreak?  That he was, a few days before, carrying an Ebola victim to treatment in Monrovia.  It wasn't anyone in the Dallas hospital or Dallas public health that followed up and contacted CDC; it was Ebola Man's nephew!  As with the WH fence jumper, as with ISIL virtually appearing from nowhere, as with NFL stars slugging their wives in public, even going back to 9/11 our worst vulnerability is the cumbersomeness and myopia of our immense bureaucracies.

Not to mention Jazmunda mysteriously disappearing…

[area51drone]

Naturally you take the 'kill the fuckers' stance because like several on here you think in simple terms. That's fine. Just don't be surprised when 'Simpleworld' is only in Marvel comics and the Fantasy channel.

You really are a fucking dumbass Puddy.   You love to pick and choose words and twist them to your delight.   Recall that I said "There's no reason we can't drop them air supplies and bring in people as necessary to help them, even waive debts if that's necessary to keep their economies afloat."    The last resort would be to kill people as they tried to leave, and I'm not even sure if that would be necessary. 

The "humane" solution might be to send them to a holding area first, let them stay a month or two and then let them come if they're virus free.

But, assuming it was that bad,  if we're willing to shoot down our own airliners that are headed for our infrastructure buildings, why wouldn't we be willing to shoot down one loaded full of potential ebola patients headed to spread it in our respective countries?

[nextgen.fm]

George doing an ebola segment up next

[Yorkshire pud]

You really are a fucking dumbass Puddy.   You love to pick and choose words and twist them to your delight.   Recall that I said "There's no reason we can't drop them air supplies and bring in people as necessary to help them, even waive debts if that's necessary to keep their economies afloat."    The last resort would be to kill people as they tried to leave, and I'm not even sure if that would be necessary. 

I didn't ignore it,, it was so idiotic an 'answer' it  wasn't worth addreesing. You might as well airdrop the constituant materials for  fully functioning western standard hospital. It's pointless unless you have people on the ground who are capable of putting it all together.

The "humane" solution might be to send them to a holding area first, let them stay a month or two and then let them come if they're virus free.

But, assuming it was that bad,  if we're willing to shoot down our own airliners that are headed for our infrastructure buildings, why wouldn't we be willing to shoot down one loaded full of potential ebola patients headed to spread it in our respective countries?

Yeah okay. None of that will stop it's spread. It needs addressing at source with expert international help. Not knee jerk panic led mass murder.