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Coast Guests: Legit, Charlatan, Deluded or Crazy

Started by RecoveringNoorholic, November 16, 2013, 09:11:22 PM

Jocko Johnson

Quote from: Uncle Duke on December 11, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
I could easily list several of Dietrich's statements and theories that are factually incorrrect, but what I don't get is why he served in the USMC during the Gulf War.  He's constantly talking about wars being fought at the expense of the common soldier/sailor/marine/airman to make money for the elite, but he joined the US military and fought in an oil war? 
Probably served in one of his crazy ass deluded dreams! Too bad we couldn't find out and expose him. We should counter all these lies and nut jobs with the facts and by that I mean the truth.  That my just be the way to finally take the snorge down.

Wintermute

VERY VERY VERY FEW....

Very few guests on any psi/para show are "legit" as far as scientific analysis / root cause analysis / any empirical evidence / any real qualitative analysis as well.

Most are out to make money off of poorly written books, conference speaking, or TV appearances.

The bigger question is "does it even matter"? Personally I do take some offense to these idiots like a Richard Hogland, who disperse total bullsh!t. BUT... it is entertainment and as long as people know they are supposed to be entertained by the bumbing rants of pseudo-intelligent folks, hey, who am I to judge. Just remember that Hogland is on par with a Kardashian.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on December 11, 2013, 01:28:03 PM
I could easily list several of Dietrich's statements and theories that are factually incorrrect, but what I don't get is why he served in the USMC during the Gulf War.  He's constantly talking about wars being fought at the expense of the common soldier/sailor/marine/airman to make money for the elite, but he joined the US military and fought in an oil war?

While I'm happy to call Douglas Dietrich a nutcase, I don't want to call him a liar so I will not do that. However, I think everyone in this field needs to have their background independently verified and absolutely no one does it. This week I'll submit a FOIA request to the NPRC for Dietrich's OMPF and OPF. From past experience it can take 4-8 weeks for a response but I'll scan what I receive and post it here.

Quote from: Wintermute on December 16, 2013, 10:03:38 AM
The bigger question is "does it even matter"? Personally I do take some offense to these idiots like a Richard Hogland, who disperse total bullsh!t. BUT... it is entertainment and as long as people know they are supposed to be entertained by the bumbing rants of pseudo-intelligent folks, hey, who am I to judge. Just remember that Hogland is on par with a Kardashian.

I do think it matters because I get a sense that most of the listeners to C2CAM subscribe to the delusions. Civil society can only exist among a population of the sane.

Gd5150

Most guests & topics on c2c require a leap of faith. That's part of what makes the show interesting and entertaining. It's like telling late night campfire stories. It's funny to me the people on here constantly whining about proof & facts. It's as if they've never even listened to the show. Normally I'd say if you want fact based stories watch the news, but our news media is nothing but worthless propaganda.

Some hosts know how to make the stories more mysterious and interesting. Noory is not one of them. Nonetheless c2c is about far fetched stories meant to challenge the status quo. That being said, Paulides & the missing 411 shows are some of the best in a decade. The implications listed in previous posts are laughable, maybe the whiners here should stick with NPR.

Quote from: Gd5150 on December 25, 2013, 12:05:02 AM
Most guests & topics on c2c require a leap of faith. That's part of what makes the show interesting and entertaining. It's like telling late night campfire stories.

If that was the profile of the average C2C listener I would agree. But, I get the sense that many listeners dwell on the fables being spun by C2C, concentrate on them, obsess over them, wrap themselves the sub-culture of the paranormal until they are reordering their lives based on bunk alt-medicine and tales of hobgoblins and ghouls.

Anyone who is offended by this description, don't worry, I wasn't describing you. You're unique. I was describing all the C2C fans other than you.

UFQuack

What a can of worms this thread opens up!

The numbers lady is someone I can do without--and I have listened a couple of times but no more. Whenever I hear her voice pop up I cringe and then that's my cue to shut off the radio.

I have a theory that the most batshit crazy material always sounds saner when delivered with a British accent ie Graham Hancock, Timothy Good, Nick Redfern

aldousburbank

Quote from: Chocolate coated jackboot on December 27, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
I have a theory that the most batshit crazy material always sounds saner when delivered with a British accent ie Graham Hancock, Timothy Good, Nick Redfern
Even worse, Australian.

McPhallus

Andrew Basiago = deluded, charlatan.
David Icke = deluded, charlatan.

Speaking of Icke, I heard a three-part interview with his ex-wife on another paranormal show where she talks about the details of their divorce.  She's at least as batshit crazy as he is.

More and more, the new age movement seems to be a way for the mentally ill to become entrepreneurs.

Sambo

Clarissa Pinkola Estes is pretty legit. Provided she can finish a sentence without being interrupted

Quote from: Chocolate coated jackboot on December 27, 2013, 01:17:35 PM
I have a theory that the most batshit crazy material always sounds saner when delivered with a British accent ie Graham Hancock, Timothy Good, Nick Redfern

+1

Nick Redfern could be rambling on about black eyed kids and he'd sound more legit than someone from Arkansas with a double-Ph.D. in nuclear physics and oceanography.

Robert

Quote from: tensy on December 03, 2013, 11:02:03 AMAlso dishonest is his record as a police officer. Paulides leaves off his arrest for soliciting celebrity autographs on police stationary.
So he abused his authority.  That doesn't count against his veracity for me.  What it does say is that he'll go beyond the bounds of propriety in pursuit of a project.  That could increase suspicion of his reporting, in that it may lead to his exaggerating some cases beyond reason to get more att'n to something he sincerely believes is a problem in general.  Some police are prone to that, mfg. evidence against those they sincerely think are guilty.  However, that's not an automatic inference, just a possibility.
QuotePaulides' outright refusal to acknowledge paradoxical undressing as well as terminal burrowing, which are both related to Hypothermia.
I can vouch for that.  The human body's homeostatic mechanisms are often double-edged, in some cases increasing & in others decreasing survivability.  Usually the mechanisms work fairly well in improving survival under conditions that are adverse up to a point, & beyond that point hasten death (under conditions that probably would've resulted in death anyway).

When you get cold, what gets cold fastest is your skin.  Circulation is then diverted to the skin via flushing.  That can get to an extreme in some cases, resulting in the person's feeling too hot.  It's likely to occur under conditions where brain circulation is impaired, which along with panic can cause people to do things they wouldn't have done with a cool (heh) head.

When hypothermia begins to set in, the body will divert circulation from the skin to keep the body core warmest.  However, they may have already disrobed & be too distraught, or at too great a remove from their discarded clothes, to react appropriately.

However, that doesn't knock out other particulars of his stories.
QuoteOn Sunday 11/25/26/12 with George Knapp on Coast to Coast (show title "Bigfoot DNA" available on YouTube) he told the story of a South Carolina toddler Jason Burton who went missing on and was discovered, according to Paulides, on a sand bar in the middle of a river. Knapp chimed in with "He could not have swam to it." I went to the local news station website ( http://www2.wspa.com/news/2011/dec/16/33/spartanburg-deputies-searching-missing-one-year-ol-ar-2881997/) and watched a video report of the case. The reporter clearly states the boy was found on a sandbar, "a few steps from shore." I went to the google map provided by the website and looked at a satellite image of the river. The river is clearly narrow and with occasional sandbars extending from the banks. I realize the image is not current but its strains credulity to assert that the sandbar would be in the middle of the river with swift water currents on both sides when the more plausible explanation is " a few steps from shore." as reported. If Paulides is as scrupulous in his fact checking as he asserts, how did he miss this? Is he incompetent?
Heh...maybe he was technically correct albeit misleading if the water was too shallow to swim!
QuoteAll this Author has done is trivialized the deaths of many people,
No.  Sensationalizing is not trivializing!  Just the opposite.

So I'm not sure whether he's a charlatan, deluded, or legit.  Of course he could be legit & still wrong.  He's still the frequent guest I look forward to the most.

henge0stone

Whitley Strieber - Deluded turned crazy, or the other way around.
Red Elk - crazy
Dames - charlatan
SDM - charlatan
LMH - Legit turned crazy
Jose Escamilla - deluded/retarded
RCH - All four depending on the time.
Bugs - legit/possible murderer
Peter Davenport - legit
Graham Hancock - legit
Sylvia Browne - charlatan
Ghostwolf - charlatan


Robert

Quote from: henge0stone on July 04, 2015, 09:41:38 AMDames - charlatan
George P. Hansen, author of The Trickster and the Paranormal, would've told you that.

BTW, that's an excellent survey of paranormal research.  Heavily sourced.  He's also a good speaker & a nice guy I 1st met 15 yrs. ago.  He's a magician too, which helps in investig'n of much of this sort of stuff.  John Keel was a magician too; they traveled in the same circles.

Come to think of it, George Hansen would be an excellent guest on shows about the weird -- Forteana, psychic stuff, UFOs, hoaxers, the works.  His voice resembles that of Stanton Freedman.

Juan Cena

Quote from: henge0stone on July 04, 2015, 09:41:38 AM
Whitley Strieber - Deluded turned crazy, or the other way around.
Red Elk - crazy
Dames - charlatan
SDM - charlatan
LMH - Legit turned crazy
Jose Escamilla - deluded/retarded
RCH - All four depending on the time.
Bugs - legit/possible murderer
Peter Davenport - legit
Graham Hancock - legit
Sylvia Browne - charlatan
Ghostwolf - charlatan

Graham Hancock and RCH are both somewhat racist when it comes to their theories on ancient aliens in some way, shape, or form being responsible for constructing ancient landmarks built by non-white, non-European peoples.

So many guests cross over into so many different categories... I would say just about every guest is a charlatin to some extent otherwise they wouldn't be seeking publicity. They're also for the most part delusional otherwise they wouldn't be interesting enough to be on Coast.


With that said...


Legit


Tess Gertisen
Terrence/Dennis McKenna
George Carlin
The FBI Profiler Lady
The Fire Chief who was the last one out on 9/11
Congressman Steven Schiff
Peter Davenport
Dr. Edgar Mitchell
Micho Kaku
Madman Markam
The guy who wrote the God Part of the Brain
Malachi Martin (although I could make the argument he was a delusional charlatan too)


Deluded


Whitley Streiber (you could throw him in any three of deluded, charlatan, crazy)
Michael Horn
Col. Phillip Corso
The Flying Rods guy


Charlatan


Richard C Hoagland
Sean David Morton
John Hogue
Sylvia Brown
Dannion Brinkley
Bob Lazar
Jonathan Reed
Ed Dames


Fun Charlatans (people not trying to con anyone other than telling a fun bullshit story)


Mel Waters
Bugs The Bigfoot Killer
The guy who trapped a ghost in a bug zapper
Riley Martin


Crazy


Dallas Thompson
Red Elk
George Green
Preston Nichols
Harlot The Witch
Al Bielek
John Lear (pains me to say it)
Judith Baker (the lady who said she was having an affair with Lee Harvey Oswald)

henge0stone

Quote from: Juan Cena on July 05, 2015, 01:24:32 AM
Graham Hancock and RCH are both somewhat racist when it comes to their theories on ancient aliens in some way, shape, or form being responsible for constructing ancient landmarks built by non-white, non-European peoples.

We're really having this conversation again? It shows how much you know about  Hancock since he doesn't (as far as I've read) even subscribe to the ancient alien theory. How is arguing there was a lost civilization = racism anyway? If anything he said the ancient Egyptians were the decedents of this civilization, not white Europeans.   

Quote from: Juan Cena on July 05, 2015, 01:24:32 AM
Graham Hancock and RCH are both somewhat racist when it comes to their theories on ancient aliens in some way, shape, or form being responsible for constructing ancient landmarks built by non-white, non-European peoples.

I've seen you say this a lot but I really don't get it.  The early cultures of northern Africa, Asia Minor, and the Indus valley devoloped thousands of years before the European cultures, generally owing to their fertile lands.  Europeans had to await the development of the plowshare before they could enjoy similar prosperity.  Writing, bronze working, polytheism, etc. came to Europe later and it came from the East. 

If there had been ancient aliens the non-white, non-European peoples got preferential treatment while the European people were left to suffer in extreme poverty and hardship for thousands of years.  When the Europeans did come to prosper, it was only with the migration of technology and culture from Northern Africa and from the Crescent Valley, so even if you believe in ancient aliens, the Europeans did not do it on their own, but rather with the benefit of the ancient alien technology after having been neglected and suffering all that time. 

Why would the ancient aliens be so prejudice against Europeans that they would allow them to suffer all those thousands of years?  Probably because the European populations were small and backwards at the time, while the populations of the fertile lands around the Nile, Tigrus, Euphrates, and Indus rivers were already prosperous.

I enjoy your posts but don't understand why you think everything all the time is racist.  People make up some BS about ancient aliens.  Racist.  I say North Americans (including Mexicans) are indirectly responsible for what is going on in Mexico due to their drug use.  Racist.  Sorry, but I don't understand what the deal is.

Juan Cena

Quote from: henge0stone on July 05, 2015, 08:04:35 AM
We're really having this conversation again? It shows how much you know about  Hancock since he doesn't (as far as I've read) even subscribe to the ancient alien theory. How is arguing there was a lost civilization = racism anyway? If anything he said the ancient Egyptians were the decedents of this civilization, not white Europeans.


It's just another version of the myth of the Aryan super-race that all Indo-European peoples were supposedly descended from. It implies that cultures such as Egypt or the Maya could not have possibly been able to come up with the knowledge to create structures like the pyramids on they're own without the help or knowledge given to them of a "superior" lost civilization.


The Ancient Aliens idea is just an offshoot of that.

Juan Cena

Quote from: Georgie For President 2216 on July 05, 2015, 12:00:49 PM
I've seen you say this a lot but I really don't get it.  The early cultures of northern Africa, Asia Minor, and the Indus valley devoloped thousands of years before the European cultures, generally owing to their fertile lands.  Europeans had to await the development of the plowshare before they could enjoy similar prosperity.  Writing, bronze working, polytheism, etc. came to Europe later and it came from the East. 

If there had been ancient aliens the non-white, non-European peoples got preferential treatment while the European people were left to suffer in extreme poverty and hardship for thousands of years.  When the Europeans did come to prosper, it was only with the migration of technology and culture from Northern Africa and from the Crescent Valley, so even if you believe in ancient aliens, the Europeans did not do it on their own, but rather with the benefit of the ancient alien technology after having been neglected and suffering all that time. 

Why would the ancient aliens be so prejudice against Europeans that they would allow them to suffer all those thousands of years?  Probably because the European populations were small and backwards at the time, while the populations of the fertile lands around the Nile, Tigrus, Euphrates, and Indus rivers were already prosperous.

I enjoy your posts but don't understand why you think everything all the time is racist.  People make up some BS about ancient aliens.  Racist.  I say North Americans (including Mexicans) are indirectly responsible for what is going on in Mexico due to their drug use.  Racist.  Sorry, but I don't understand what the deal is.


The idea there was a "super-race" from which Europeans (particularly northern Europeans) are more or less directly descended from (as opposed to the darker-skinned, non-European peoples like the Egyptians) that existed in pre-history is nothing new. It been called things like "Indo-European" or the "Aryan race" (the later term popularized by Hitler and the Nazis) or things similar.


The New Age memes like Ancient Aliens or a mythological culture like Atlantis that was part of a pre-historical global super culture are just offshoots of it.

henge0stone

Quote from: Juan Cena on July 05, 2015, 09:15:57 PM

The idea there was a "super-race" from which Europeans (particularly northern Europeans) are more or less directly descended from (as opposed to the darker-skinned, non-European peoples like the Egyptians) that existed in pre-history is nothing new. It been called things like "Indo-European" or the "Aryan race" (the later term popularized by Hitler and the Nazis) or things similar.

The New Age memes like Ancient Aliens or a mythological culture like Atlantis that was part of a pre-historical global super culture are just offshoots of it.

Just because Hitler used the Lost civilization hypothesis to try and prove his racist theory doesn't mean the idea of a Lost Civilization itself is racist. A comparison is Darwinism. Is Darwinism racist because social Darwinism was an offshoot of it? Social Darwinism took Darwinism and used it to support a racist argument. Hitler did the same thing with Atlantis.


Like I said Graham Hancock cities the Egyptians as the closest decedents of this lost civilization. Graham Hancock also mentions the Olmec's, African looking statues in central America, as possible members of the lost civilization. In fact Europe itself gets the least attention in his books because there are so few ancient structures there. 

Also Ancient Alien theorists say nothing about a super race. The closest thing is the idea that Alien's messed with our DNA to improve the species. This would actually mean the opposite is true because, as you pointed out, the Aliens did not visit Europe as much. So if they messed with our DNA, and made a super race, it would than be the Egyptians, middle eastern people and the per-Colombian cultures in America who were a 'super race' and not the Europeans.

Juan Cena

Quote from: henge0stone on July 06, 2015, 01:55:54 PM
Just because Hitler used the Lost civilization hypothesis to try and prove his racist theory doesn't mean the idea of a Lost Civilization itself is racist. A comparison is Darwinism. Is Darwinism racist because social Darwinism was an offshoot of it? Social Darwinism took Darwinism and used it to support a racist argument. Hitler did the same thing with Atlantis.


The idea of the Aryan myth predates Hitler. It also has roots in the idea of European superiority over other peoples of the world.

QuoteLike I said Graham Hancock cities the Egyptians as the closest decedents of this lost civilization. Graham Hancock also mentions the Olmec's, African looking statues in central America, as possible members of the lost civilization. In fact Europe itself gets the least attention in his books because there are so few ancient structures there.


It still comes off as saying that Egypt and the South American cultures could not have built their civilizations on their own, and depended on knowledge from a greater civilization for their achievements.

Thus, they come up as looking inferior to the Greek and Roman civilizations, whom had no help in developing the technologies needed to dominate the Mediterranean cultures of the ancient world.


QuoteAlso Ancient Alien theorists say nothing about a super race. The closest thing is the idea that Alien's messed with our DNA to improve the species. This would actually mean the opposite is true because, as you pointed out, the Aliens did not visit Europe as much. So if they messed with our DNA, and made a super race, it would than be the Egyptians, middle eastern people and the per-Colombian cultures in America who were a 'super race' and not the Europeans.

That's just a fancy way of saying that Europeans are "purer" than other cultures because their genes aren't "tainted."


henge0stone

Quote from: Juan Cena on July 07, 2015, 02:56:12 AM

The idea of the Aryan myth predates Hitler. It also has roots in the idea of European superiority over other peoples of the world.


Your saying the entire root of Atlantis came from white superiority? It actually had its roots, with Plato telling a story. The modern work which popularized the idea of a lost civilization is Atlantis: The Antediluvian World in which the author compares different myths, architecture and the creation of civilization. Written in 1882 its not exactly 'politically correct' nowadays but to say that the book was simply written to say that Europeans are superior to all other races is a stretch. Besides in 1882 it was just a given that Europeans were superior so they hardly needed the Atlantis myth to prove it. If the idea of this book was to prove white superiority he certainly gives a lot of credit to non white cultures (linking them all together) Egypt, India, America. The idea that all these races were related to Atlanteans was actually giving other cultures a lot more credit than most other 19th century works.


Quote from: Juan Cena on July 07, 2015, 02:56:12 AM
It still comes off as saying that Egypt and the South American cultures could not have built their civilizations on their own, and depended on knowledge from a greater civilization for their achievements.

Thus, they come up as looking inferior to the Greek and Roman civilizations, whom had no help in developing the technologies needed to dominate the Mediterranean cultures of the ancient world.


Well just because it come off that way for you doesn't make it racist. Your also ignoring Georgie For President 2216's post where he mentions how Europe got their advanced technology from Africa, the middle east, Asia minor ect. Your also looking at it as if Egypt and Rome and Greece both developed at the same time which is not true.

Egypt was around thousands of years before Greece and Rome and Civilization was born in the middle east and defused out to Europe at a later time. Therefore by the time of Rome, their great civilization was nothing special since the knowledge from the past had already been diffused from the Middle East. The Romans did have the same help the Egyptians and other civilizations but only got it later through natural diffusion of civilization of the years.
 



Quote from: Juan Cena on July 07, 2015, 02:56:12 AM

That's just a fancy way of saying that Europeans are "purer" than other cultures because their genes aren't "tainted."


According Ancient Aliens if the Europeans weren't tainted they wouldn't be modern humans. Since aliens tampering with our genes is what made us what we are (according to AAT) that would include Europeans.

I'm staring to think your just enjoy yankin my chain.

yumyumtree

Quote from: VoteQuimby on July 05, 2015, 02:11:58 AM
So many guests cross over into so many different categories... I would say just about every guest is a charlatin to some extent otherwise they wouldn't be seeking publicity. They're also for the most part delusional otherwise they wouldn't be interesting enough to be on Coast.


With that said...


Legit


Tess Gertisen
Terrence/Dennis McKenna
George Carlin
The FBI Profiler Lady
The Fire Chief who was the last one out on 9/11
Congressman Steven Schiff
Peter Davenport
Dr. Edgar Mitchell
Micho Kaku
Madman Markam
The guy who wrote the God Part of the Brain
Malachi Martin (although I could make the argument he was a delusional charlatan too)


Deluded


Whitley Streiber (you could throw him in any three of deluded, charlatan, crazy)
Michael Horn
Col. Phillip Corso
The Flying Rods guy


Charlatan


Richard C Hoagland
Sean David Morton
John Hogue
Sylvia Brown
Dannion Brinkley
Bob Lazar
Jonathan Reed
Ed Dames


Fun Charlatans (people not trying to con anyone other than telling a fun bullshit story)


Mel Waters
Bugs The Bigfoot Killer
The guy who trapped a ghost in a bug zapper
Riley Martin


Crazy


Dallas Thompson
Red Elk
George Green
Preston Nichols
Harlot The Witch
Al Bielek
John Lear (pains me to say it)
Judith Baker (the lady who said she was having an affair with Lee Harvey Oswald)


Pretty good list.  What about the guy who claimed to be the Lindbergh baby?

albrecht

Quote from: yumyumtree on July 07, 2015, 08:32:50 PM

Pretty good list.  What about the guy who claimed to be the Lindbergh baby?
Great list! Never seen it broken down so well. I like the first category and the last category as best guests, or callers-turned-guests. Do you know the show date or title or link too of the guy who was the Lindbergh baby? I missed that but interesting!
-edit--> found it. Now just need to chase it down for listening
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/guest/lindbergh-jr-charles-a/6937

tos11201

Yeah - outstanding list. I would put Malachi Martin firmly in the deluded charlatan category, and add...

Robert Anton Wilson - Legit
George Lutz - Charlatan
Kent Hovind - Deluded
Kathleen Keating - Crazy

henge0stone

I would not put Martin under Charlatan. Deluded maybe.

Robert

Want to include another category: legit but sloppy/careless or optimistic?  Their errors tend to put them on the charlatan-ish side, but they're basically legit.  Like the mechanic who could've ruled out everything but a fairly easy-to-fix problem w a little more work, but sold you a bigger job than you needed, "just to be safe".  Or the consultant who lowballs the difficulty of the job, & does honest work on it, but could've given a more sympathetic assessment which would've led the client to conclude it'd cost more than was worthwhile.

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