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Random Political Thoughts

Started by MV/Liberace!, February 08, 2012, 10:50:42 AM


Kidnostad3

Quote from: Azzerae on May 16, 2019, 12:28:12 PM
You mean, the same hackneyed opinions, that mirror yours, in every way, rock.

You talk freely about torturing and killing animals.  Why haven't you offed yourself yet. 

AZZERAE

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on May 16, 2019, 12:39:02 PM
You talk freely about torturing and killing animals.

Find a safe space, pussy.


SredniVashtar

Quote from: pyewacket on May 16, 2019, 11:43:05 AM
I have a hard time deciding if you are serious or not when you post like this. Either you are the most willfully uninformed participant on this thread or you make trolling here a hobby.

Yet you find CNN credible? I rarely read Breitbart; wrong again.

"get worked up about Muslims"-your country has industrial-scale grooming and raping of children almost exclusively committed by them, maybe you should 'get worked up' about that.

Can you provide links for all those Trump supporting rednecks attacking Jews?

At least I don't get kicked out of the club when I question or disagree with my "overlords", your side, on the other hand, are not all that tolerant.

America, New Zealand and Canada top list of world’s most generous nations

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/americas/america-new-zealand-and-canada-top-list-of-world-s-most-generous-nations-a6849221.html

Empathy and compassion should be present in any culture. These days, too many recipients lack appreciation and feel entitled. It should be a two way street; shouldn't it?

I take it your frown upon holding anyone other than 'right winger/trump supporters' accountable.

When people have zero regard for our laws, enter our country illegally, participate and support human trafficking, help terrorists, gang members, convicted criminals, act as drug mules, enter with the purpose of overwhelming our counties services intended for our citizens- would you consider them to be compassionate and empathetic?

If they are so desperate, shouldn't they use their numbers to demand change in their own countries to improve their lives and those of their fellow citizens? I am sure that our country and others would give generously to help them achieve that goal.

Do recipients have any responsibilities at all? I could relay reported incidents of the behavior and demands made by these 'poor swimmers', but you will just say that I am making it all up. Despite what you may think, it is DATA not something I made up.

So many dumb points to rebut and so little time.

Don't conflate anecdotal reports with the general reality of a situation. No doubt there are unpleasant people among those seeking asylum, but if you're making a broader claim about them then you have adopted a burden of proof which you need to justify. Don't believe the guff that orange phoney tells you. You want to talk about entitled? How about a man who has been bankrolled by his dad his whole life yet pretends he is self made?

Doing good for somebody isn't a two-way street. Not at all. They don't need to be grateful. Go and work in a soup kitchen, most of the homeless are pretty sullen about the help they receive, but that's not the point. If I was stuck on the streets I'd feel the same way. You do it because it's right, it's obscene to make any help conditional on their behaviour.

Go and look at the recent synagogue shootings. Trump is surfing a wave of racism and he's too stupid and cynical to care where any of this will lead. You don't think about any of this because you dismiss it as random acts by the mentally ill, but if it's a Muslim doing them you jump straight to a religious interpretation.

Your country isn't giving generously to help other countries in need, Trump has been cutting aid to make things worse. Should they stay in their countries to make things better? Would you say that to the Russian Jews fleeing the pogroms? Or the Jews from Nazi Germany? You think all these refugees from the shtetl were all doctors and bankers? Or the Irish fleeing the famine? Not many accountants among them. Your country is founded on immigration, something you choose to ignore.

There are certain things you are entitled to as a citizen. I have more of them because I live in a more civilised country. When you complain about entitlements you have fallen for the whole neo-liberal con job which is about squeezing the poor and giving it all to the rich. In fact, not just the poor, it's anyone who isn't wealthy they go after. Population densities being what they are you can't pretend you're living in an isolated part of the country any more. It's far better to give people some money to keep them off the streets. Better that than robbing you. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than putting your nose in the air and sneering at them.


pyewacket

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
So many dumb points to rebut and so little time.

Don't conflate anecdotal reports with the general reality of a situation. No doubt there are unpleasant people among those seeking asylum, but if you're making a broader claim about them then you have adopted a burden of proof which you need to justify. Don't believe the guff that orange phoney tells you. You want to talk about entitled? How about a man who has been bankrolled by his dad his whole life yet pretends he is self made?

Doing good for somebody isn't a two-way street. Not at all. They don't need to be grateful. Go and work in a soup kitchen, most of the homeless are pretty sullen about the help they receive, but that's not the point. If I was stuck on the streets I'd feel the same way. You do it because it's right, it's obscene to make any help conditional on their behaviour.

Go and look at the recent synagogue shootings. Trump is surfing a wave of racism and he's too stupid and cynical to care where any of this will lead. You don't think about any of this because you dismiss it as random acts by the mentally ill, but if it's a Muslim doing them you jump straight to a religious interpretation.

Your country isn't giving generously to help other countries in need, Trump has been cutting aid to make things worse. Should they stay in their countries to make things better? Would you say that to the Russian Jews fleeing the pogroms? Or the Jews from Nazi Germany? You think all these refugees from the shtetl were all doctors and bankers? Or the Irish fleeing the famine? Not many accountants among them. Your country is founded on immigration, something you choose to ignore.

There are certain things you are entitled to as a citizen. I have more of them because I live in a more civilised country. When you complain about entitlements you have fallen for the whole neo-liberal con job which is about squeezing the poor and giving it all to the rich. In fact, not just the poor, it's anyone who isn't wealthy they go after. Population densities being what they are you can't pretend you're living in an isolated part of the country any more. It's far better to give people some money to keep them off the streets. Better that than robbing you. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than putting your nose in the air and sneering at them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VWsSzvLGlF8


Kidnostad3

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
So many dumb points to rebut and so little time.

Don't conflate anecdotal reports with the general reality of a situation. No doubt there are unpleasant people among those seeking asylum, but if you're making a broader claim about them then you have adopted a burden of proof which you need to justify. Don't believe the guff that orange phoney tells you. You want to talk about entitled? How about a man who has been bankrolled by his dad his whole life yet pretends he is self made?

Doing good for somebody isn't a two-way street. Not at all. They don't need to be grateful. Go and work in a soup kitchen, most of the homeless are pretty sullen about the help they receive, but that's not the point. If I was stuck on the streets I'd feel the same way. You do it because it's right, it's obscene to make any help conditional on their behaviour.

Go and look at the recent synagogue shootings. Trump is surfing a wave of racism and he's too stupid and cynical to care where any of this will lead. You don't think about any of this because you dismiss it as random acts by the mentally ill, but if it's a Muslim doing them you jump straight to a religious interpretation.

Your country isn't giving generously to help other countries in need, Trump has been cutting aid to make things worse. Should they stay in their countries to make things better? Would you say that to the Russian Jews fleeing the pogroms? Or the Jews from Nazi Germany? You think all these refugees from the shtetl were all doctors and bankers? Or the Irish fleeing the famine? Not many accountants among them. Your country is founded on immigration, something you choose to ignore.

There are certain things you are entitled to as a citizen. I have more of them because I live in a more civilised country. When you complain about entitlements you have fallen for the whole neo-liberal con job which is about squeezing the poor and giving it all to the rich. In fact, not just the poor, it's anyone who isn't wealthy they go after. Population densities being what they are you can't pretend you're living in an isolated part of the country any more. It's far better to give people some money to keep them off the streets. Better that than robbing you. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than putting your nose in the air and sneering at them.

So much dumb and so little time.  I'm a bit tied up right now but I'll get back to you soon.


SredniVashtar

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on May 16, 2019, 02:07:07 PM
I'm a bit tied up right now


Don't forget your safe word. I don't think you ought to be taking such risks at your age. After Notre Dame we should be more careful with our ancient ruins.





albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
So many dumb points to rebut and so little time.

Don't conflate anecdotal reports with the general reality of a situation. No doubt there are unpleasant people among those seeking asylum, but if you're making a broader claim about them then you have adopted a burden of proof which you need to justify. Don't believe the guff that orange phoney tells you. You want to talk about entitled? How about a man who has been bankrolled by his dad his whole life yet pretends he is self made?

Doing good for somebody isn't a two-way street. Not at all. They don't need to be grateful. Go and work in a soup kitchen, most of the homeless are pretty sullen about the help they receive, but that's not the point. If I was stuck on the streets I'd feel the same way. You do it because it's right, it's obscene to make any help conditional on their behaviour.

Go and look at the recent synagogue shootings. Trump is surfing a wave of racism and he's too stupid and cynical to care where any of this will lead. You don't think about any of this because you dismiss it as random acts by the mentally ill, but if it's a Muslim doing them you jump straight to a religious interpretation.

Your country isn't giving generously to help other countries in need, Trump has been cutting aid to make things worse. Should they stay in their countries to make things better? Would you say that to the Russian Jews fleeing the pogroms? Or the Jews from Nazi Germany? You think all these refugees from the shtetl were all doctors and bankers? Or the Irish fleeing the famine? Not many accountants among them. Your country is founded on immigration, something you choose to ignore.

There are certain things you are entitled to as a citizen. I have more of them because I live in a more civilised country. When you complain about entitlements you have fallen for the whole neo-liberal con job which is about squeezing the poor and giving it all to the rich. In fact, not just the poor, it's anyone who isn't wealthy they go after. Population densities being what they are you can't pretend you're living in an isolated part of the country any more. It's far better to give people some money to keep them off the streets. Better that than robbing you. It's not an ideal solution but it's better than putting your nose in the air and sneering at them.
Where do you stand on Cromwell? Curious because a new biography has recently come out and I was thinking of reading. Fascinating character and over the centuries "reinterpreted" several times. On the one hand you got his anti-Papist and Irish persecution stuff but on the other he let the Joose back into Britain and running the "City" again. And then, of course, the civil war and all the royal and religious intrigue. Interestingly we aren't allowed to have statues in many places of historical figures because they were white, but he still has a statue- right outside Parliament- and he helped behead a king, dissolved Parliament for a time, and was very "racist." I'm not sure of this views toward Mohammedans though but maybe would like their ways of torture and killings? I don't know.  Certainly an interesting character and time and people still have such conflicting views.

Jackstar

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 01:09:07 PM
It's far better to give people some money to keep them off the streets. Better that than robbing you.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Appeasement


Grow up.



SredniVashtar

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 04:22:14 PM
Where do you stand on Cromwell? Curious because a new biography has recently come out and I was thinking of reading. Fascinating character and over the centuries "reinterpreted" several times. On the one hand you got his anti-Papist and Irish persecution stuff but on the other he let the Joose back into Britain and running the "City" again. And then, of course, the civil war and all the royal and religious intrigue. Interestingly we aren't allowed to have statues in many places of historical figures because they were white, but he still has a statue- right outside Parliament- and he helped behead a king, dissolved Parliament for a time, and was very "racist." I'm not sure of this views toward Mohammedans though but maybe would like their ways of torture and killings? I don't know.  Certainly an interesting character and time and people still have such conflicting views.

Cromwell intended to settle in America at one point before he got involved in politics. The Irish see him, correctly, as a war criminal. Don't forget that all the Civil War stuff was going on at the same time as the Thirty Years War in Europe and many of the people involved learned their trade in the Low Countries.

If you're interested in Cromwell I recommend God's Englishman by Christopher Hill. A Marxist historian, so you'll have a lot in common. Cromwell is an equivocal figure rather like Napoleon - both were successful in war and brought order to a disturbed environment, and both ended up subverting democracy and inadvertently bringing back the monarchy. Although Cromwell isn't a romantic figure like Napoleon.

It's hard to judge people like Cromwell because of the religious element. It was more than life and death to them and Cromwell thought he was on a mission from God. A bit like his relation, Thomas, it's hard to say they were either heroes or villains.


albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 04:51:23 PM
Cromwell intended to settle in America at one point before he got involved in politics. The Irish see him, correctly, as a war criminal. Don't forget that all the Civil War stuff was going on at the same time as the Thirty Years War in Europe and many of the people involved learned their trade in the Low Countries.

If you're interested in Cromwell I recommend God's Englishman by Christopher Hill. A Marxist historian, so you'll have a lot in common. Cromwell is an equivocal figure rather like Napoleon - both were successful in war and brought order to a disturbed environment, and both ended up subverting democracy and inadvertently bringing back the monarchy. Although Cromwell isn't a romantic figure like Napoleon.

It's hard to judge people like Cromwell because of the religious element. It was more than life and death to them and Cromwell thought he was on a mission from God. A bit like his relation, Thomas, it's hard to say they were either heroes or villains.
Ha. Yes, I am and try to ferret them out. Interestingly a lot of these "conservatives" were commies back in the day of various stripes. There also is a lot of conflicts between methodology internally. This happens in so-called "right-wing" circles also but especially so in far-left movements as our Democratic Party appears to happen.  But like with Trump and the Republicans it might be time for splits or new Parties. Not to the point of chaos like Europe but evolution, or devolution, and Old Guards replaced with new? I don't know but, generally, a two-party system is good for certain interests who doesn't care who wins.

Re: Cromwell. That is what I find so interesting. SO much vitriol, exasperation, or carefully worded comments- depending on when/where you mention in the British Isles. Also the religious part is something interesting to me. Doesn't matter much now days but the situation in England, and the Continent, between even just Protestants is fascinating (Cromwell in Scotland) and, of course, the more general divide.  And then allowing the Joose back in etc. Really I need to read more about Asia though since the cards have been shown and most of Christendom has given up.  Also funny how countries "view" certain wars as personal ones and ignore larger aspects, at times. Fun to read books from other countries about "our" wars and vice-versa.

SredniVashtar

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 05:02:27 PM
Ha. Yes, I am and try to ferret them out. Interestingly a lot of these "conservatives" were commies back in the day of various stripes. There also is a lot of conflicts between methodology internally. This happens in so-called "right-wing" circles also but especially so in far-left movements as our Democratic Party appears to happen.  But like with Trump and the Republicans it might be time for splits or new Parties. Not to the point of chaos like Europe but evolution, or devolution, and Old Guards replaced with new? I don't know but, generally, a two-party system is good for certain interests who doesn't care who wins.

Re: Cromwell. That is what I find so interesting. SO much vitriol, exasperation, or carefully worded comments- depending on when/where you mention in the British Isles. Also the religious part is something interesting to me. Doesn't matter much now days but the situation in England, and the Continent, between even just Protestants is fascinating (Cromwell in Scotland) and, of course, the more general divide.  And then allowing the Joose back in etc. Really I need to read more about Asia though since the cards have been shown and most of Christendom has given up.  Also funny how countries "view" certain wars as personal ones and ignore larger aspects, at times. Fun to read books from other countries about "our" wars and vice-versa.

It wasn't even Catholics that set them off, it was Arminiamism which was a bit more high church than many wanted but still Protestant. The civil war began with the Bishops War in Scotland, with the Covenanters who fought against the new prayer book and stuff like that. It's hard to relate to concerns like that. The Thirty Years War was more political in comparison.

albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 05:17:28 PM
It wasn't even Catholics that set them off, it was Arminiamism which was a bit more high church than many wanted but still Protestant. The civil war began with the Bishops War in Scotland, with the Covenanters who fought against the new prayer book and stuff like that. It's hard to relate to concerns like that. The Thirty Years War was more political in comparison.
Ariminian heresy was a big deal in The Netherlands and fascinating. There are still various disputes between various Protestant groups here. Oddly, which I find historically hilarious, is this current odd deal about Joose, or more properly, I guess Zionism, within some Christian churches, especially Baptist and "evangelical." Who would've thought the biggest supporters would be them? But Cromwell lead the way, sorta.  The British Israeli theory is also interesting. If you look at Temple Bar (not the Dublin pub area- which is fun though) etc the symbolism and ideas put into some hymns and books. Weird stuff. 

ps: the latest Cromwell book is by the guy who wrote "The Reformation." So expect the whole homo and "gender identity" rants sometimes but, aside from that, he usually footnotes and researches well. And this, nowadays, is pretty much standard, unfortunately, for history books.

Kidnostad3

Encouraged by Creepy Porn Lawyer's elimination from Dem 2020 primary field, De Blasio throws hat in ring.  Anthony Weiner weighs options. 

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Ariminian heresy was a big deal in The Netherlands and fascinating. There are still various disputes between various Protestant groups here.

Wading into the political thread. I'm gonna regret this. 

PreTrib, MidTrib, PostTrib.   These are heavy matters Albrecht.     Ankerberg is leading the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri8pkC-D8Qs



SredniVashtar

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 05:28:11 PM
Ariminian heresy was a big deal in The Netherlands and fascinating. There are still various disputes between various Protestant groups here. Oddly, which I find historically hilarious, is this current odd deal about Joose, or more properly, I guess Zionism, within some Christian churches, especially Baptist and "evangelical." Who would've thought the biggest supporters would be them? But Cromwell lead the way, sorta.  The British Israeli theory is also interesting. If you look at Temple Bar (not the Dublin pub area- which is fun though) etc the symbolism and ideas put into some hymns and books. Weird stuff. 

ps: the latest Cromwell book is by the guy who wrote "The Reformation." So expect the whole homo and "gender identity" rants sometimes but, aside from that, he usually footnotes and researches well. And this, nowadays, is pretty much standard, unfortunately, for history books.

OK. I read that one. Diarmuid McCulloch. I didn't get all the way through his book on Christianity though, that was a real slog. I'm sure it will be thorough. The Hill book is a classic, though, when it comes to Cromwell.

albrecht

Quote from: Walks_At_Night on May 16, 2019, 05:39:11 PM
Wading into the political thread. I'm gonna regret this. 

PreTrib, MidTrib, PostTrib.   These are heavy matters Albrecht.     Ankerberg is leading the fight.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ri8pkC-D8Qs
Ha. I'm more interested in the 'charges,' as it were, and ensuring one is ok after the result regardless of length of time of tribulation, raptures, etc. Older theologians, philosophers, etc were much better than folks today. Look at letters, tracts, and disputes between Erasmus, Luther, Armin, Calvin etc etc and then the earlier ones. Crazy, but good, stuff. Sort of like how politicians even actually had good oratory or arguments back when and not just sound bites or gimmicks (not that politicians were ever above gimmicks.)

albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 05:42:22 PM
OK. I read that one. Diarmuid McCulloch. I didn't get all the way through his book on Christianity though, that was a real slog. I'm sure it will be thorough. The Hill book is a classic, though, when it comes to Cromwell.
I'm going to get it. Will advise.

Yeah. one has to be careful. There is a balance between well researched and foot-noted and becoming tiresome and unwieldy. Especially when someone is reading for fun and not because some professor put it on a list.

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 05:59:06 PM
Ha. I'm more interested in the 'charges,' as it were, and ensuring one is ok after the result regardless of length of time of tribulation, raptures, etc. Older theologians, philosophers, etc were much better than folks today. Look at letters, tracts, and disputes between Erasmus, Luther, Armin, Calvin etc etc and then the earlier ones. Crazy, but good, stuff. Sort of like how politicians even actually had good oratory or arguments back when and not just sound bites or gimmicks (not that politicians were ever above gimmicks.)

We had a real maniac for a Sunday School teacher when I was just a young 'un.  It was all Revelation all the time.  Not sure who thought it was a good idea
to terrorize a bunch of six years old kids with tales of seven horned lambs, gog, wormwood and the beast of the sea.   I think it messed most of us up mentally pretty good (no surprise there, eh?).   Then later on, learned that Luther was none too sure about the Revelation.   *sigh*   

paladin1991

Quote from: Azzerae on May 16, 2019, 12:43:58 PM
Find a safe space, pussy.
Careful, The Kid might find that safe space in your ass and bury himself balls deep.

paladin1991

Quote from: SredniVashtar on May 16, 2019, 03:15:48 PM


Don't forget your safe word. I don't think you ought to be taking such risks at your age. After Notre Dame we should be more careful with our ancient ruins.
I will go easy on your mom.  No ballgag.

K_Dubb

Quote from: Walks_At_Night on May 16, 2019, 06:09:02 PM
We had a real maniac for a Sunday School teacher when I was just a young 'un.  It was all Revelation all the time.  Not sure who thought it was a good idea
to terrorize a bunch of six years old kids with tales of seven horned lambs, gog, wormwood and the beast of the sea.   I think it messed most of us up mentally pretty good (no surprise there, eh?).   Then later later on, learned that Luther was none too sure about the Revelation.   *sigh*   

Ha ha it was the same for me in high school.  10th grade world history was taught perfunctorily through the book of Daniel with most of the year spent on eschatology with all the quirky nuttery that only a pinch-faced old Swede (who wrote his own textbooks) can bring to bear on the subject.  Still, you pick up a few things.

albrecht

Quote from: Walks_At_Night on May 16, 2019, 06:09:02 PM
We had a real maniac for a Sunday School teacher when I was just a young 'un.  It was all Revelation all the time.  Not sure who thought it was a good idea
to terrorize a bunch of six years old kids with tales of seven horned lambs, gog, wormwood and the beast of the sea.   I think it messed most of us up mentally pretty good (no surprise there, eh?).   Then later on, learned that Luther was none too sure about the Revelation.   *sigh*   
Nah, it is all good. Now you are aware of the nefarious machinations, like 5G with regard to Revelation 13:16. 

albrecht

Quote from: K_Dubb on May 16, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
Ha ha it was the same for me in high school.  10th grade world history was taught perfunctorily through the book of Daniel with most of the year spent on eschatology with all the quirky nuttery that only a pinch-faced old Swede (who wrote his own textbooks) can bring to bear on the subject.  Still, you pick up a few things.
One of my favorite teachers was one of those "War Between The States" or "War of Northern Aggression" types but had some other good points also- like on Fridays, or towards the end of the semester, he would "teach" by playing Johnny Horton records on one of those single-speaker portable school record players. Hey- we learned history and I still can sing them when they pop up on the XM Willie channel.

Quote from: K_Dubb on May 16, 2019, 06:17:41 PM
Ha ha it was the same for me in high school.  10th grade world history was taught perfunctorily through the book of Daniel with most of the year spent on eschatology with all the quirky nuttery that only a pinch-faced old Swede (who wrote his own textbooks) can bring to bear on the subject.  Still, you pick up a few things.

I think you did better than I there.  Our high school world history teacher as a former football stud at the school that was doing the Welcome Back Kotter thing. 
It was bad.   The one thing that stands out is when he was stating that Rommel was one of the Italian commanders. 

Quote from: albrecht on May 16, 2019, 06:23:24 PM
One of my favorite teachers was one of those "War Between The States" or "War of Northern Aggression" types but had some other good points also- like on Fridays, or towards the end of the semester, he would "teach" by playing Johnny Horton records on one of those single-speaker portable school record players. Hey- we learned history and I still can sing them when they pop up on the XM Willie channel.

Really? You got screwed man.  Our Michigan History teacher regaled us with tales of Custer and the Michigan Wolverine Brigade kicking Johnny Reb ass.

 

Then he shot his wad.  After that it was all about how Henry Ford built the Pyramids, discovered the New World and cured Polio.   ;)

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