Author Topic: Teachers With Guns  (Read 1177 times)

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Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #90 on: February 23, 2018, 08:35:23 PM »
And again, I will ask why. Because kids die from accidents every day. We are conditioned to accept that as a fact of life. Shooting deaths in a school are rare. They are gnarly. They get the front page. I knew a high school junior that was killed in an accident. She was texting and hit a light pole. She got stuck in her SUV and burned to death while a tow truck driver and another passerby got burned trying their best to pull her out. Did that receive front page news and 24 hour coverage on all the cable channels about how we should raise the driving age to 21 or outlaw cell phones with text messaging capability.

I rest my case.

Accidents are accidents, there was not intent to kill or be killed/harm or be harmed.  A school shooting is intentional, avoidable.  You can make a decision in this case. 

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #91 on: February 23, 2018, 08:35:59 PM »
People like us sometimes forget most of the world doesn't see things as problems to be solved with wishbone diagrams and system safety analysis.  Obviously I agree with your risk assessment analogy, but most of the tragedies  you mentioned the world has largely, and sadly, grown to accept.  I know we also agree the world must never accept the slaughter of our children in schools.

Duke I am beside myself with grief over this. I want to cut off the nuts of the FBI people that made the decision that it was a waste of time to pursue the tips. I want to have a few minutes alone with the deputy that was too afraid to enter the building. Not really sure what I would do with him. I have a feeling he will eat his own gun sooner rather than later.

I also believe, like I am sure you do, that the real threat is more along the lines of a determined team of shooters for whatever cause are willing to die and want to make the most of the softest target they can find.

If you protect the schools, the bext target becomes the perimeter. Protect that and the next target becomes sporting events, protect those and it is shopping malls in late afternoon. I want my 50ís back.

When kids could play outside until dark

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #92 on: February 23, 2018, 08:37:58 PM »
Accidents are accidents, there was not intent to kill or be killed/harm or be harmed.  A school shooting is intentional, avoidable.  You can make a decision in this case.

I am pretty sure you can make a decision to not text or to not own a cell phone. What if she had run into your wife and kids and they were the ones that burned up?  Would you still feel accidents were ok, or would you see the fact that she was texting was an intentional, avoidable act?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #93 on: February 23, 2018, 08:37:58 PM »
And again, I will ask why. Because kids die from accidents every day. We are conditioned to accept that as a fact of life. Shooting deaths in a school are rare. They are gnarly. They get the front page. I knew a high school junior that was killed in an accident. She was texting and hit a light pole. She got stuck in her SUV and burned to death while a tow truck driver and another passerby got burned trying their best to pull her out. Did that receive front page news and 24 hour coverage on all the cable channels about how we should raise the driving age to 21 or outlaw cell phones with text messaging capability.

I rest my case.
I disagree, somewhat. We now have bans on txting or talking on phones in many States/cities. And look how attitudes have changed, at least in some circles, about drunk driving and now even drinking and driving. Granted we import many who still like to do it but for many the attitude has changed and attitude of juries are changing (slowly because, as less feel it acceptable or do it  less likely, than in the past, give folks a pass.) And much was from sensational cases, tv, govt mandates, and peer pressure. So now, many, don't take a roadie, measure travel in beers, or if hosting encourage uber, cabs, etc.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #94 on: February 23, 2018, 08:39:28 PM »
Just need a reality check here. Is the "this" you are referring to the Florida shooting or something else?  Asking for a dead kid

Well, there you go again, using dead kids as a political football when it was your people who killed them (No, I don't mean they pulled the trigger. Grow the fuck up! ::))


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #95 on: February 23, 2018, 08:42:45 PM »
I disagree, somewhat. We now have bans on txting or talking on phones in many States/cities. And look how attitudes have changed, at least in some circles, about drunk driving and now even drinking and driving. Granted we import many who still like to do it but for many the attitude has changed and attitude of juries are changing (slowly because.as less feel it acceptable more likely, than in the past, give folks a pass.)

And there are laws about carrying a rifle into a gun free zone. And against murdering someone with a rifle.

They are enforcing laws against the people that broke the law. Not blaming the cell phone or the car.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #96 on: February 23, 2018, 08:43:18 PM »
Bump Stock:  A piece of plastic with springs, used to find that sweet spot with recoil/bolt break.  You can do the exact same thing with your thumb thru a belt loop and your index/trigger finger tension just right.

Bumpstocks don't have springs, a spring makes them illegal thats why the ATF banned the original Akins Accelerator stock.

ATF also banned shoelaces and rubber bands




Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #97 on: February 23, 2018, 08:48:09 PM »

If you protect the schools, the bext target becomes the perimeter. Protect that and the next target becomes sporting events, protect those and it is shopping malls in late afternoon. I want my 50ís back.

When kids could play outside until dark


Thatís the truth! (Noory voice)

Whatís changed since then? The NRA? Republicans? A bunch of gun laws being rescinded? Russian Tweeter Bots?

Psychotropic meds being given to 60% of yute, 24/7 violence in news and entertainment causing desensitization? Social media amplifying the response to bullying in school?

If you answerd Russian Tweeter bots you win the prize of 1st class lemming steak knives.



Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #98 on: February 23, 2018, 08:49:31 PM »
Duke I am beside myself with grief over this. I want to cut off the nuts of the FBI people that made the decision that it was a waste of time to pursue the tips. I want to have a few minutes alone with the deputy that was too afraid to enter the building. Not really sure what I would do with him. I have a feeling he will eat his own gun sooner rather than later.

I also believe, like I am sure you do, that the real threat is more along the lines of a determined team of shooters for whatever cause are willing to die and want to make the most of the softest target they can find.

If you protect the schools, the bext target becomes the perimeter. Protect that and the next target becomes sporting events, protect those and it is shopping malls in late afternoon. I want my 50ís back.

When kids could play outside until dark

Hence my Beslan comment previously.  I sat unashamedly sobbing listening to a detailed briefing on this attack.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #99 on: February 23, 2018, 08:51:24 PM »
And there are laws about carrying a rifle into a gun free zone. And against murdering someone with a rifle.

They are enforcing laws against the people that broke the law. Not blaming the cell phone or the car.
Of course. And it is absurd that in this case that reports were ignored and he, after so many police and school incidents. My point is decision to, or not, arm teachers or how to deal with any school issues should be a State and local one. FEDS can deal with border, Federal crimes (which should be limited,) and let locals figure out what solution is best for the threat, area, politics, etc. Then other States or Independent School Districts can implement, if they wish. Like  many things there might not be some universal, top-down approach. And an honest cost/benefit analysis, not decisions based on emotion (thouth hard not to do so after such crasynsad events.)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #100 on: February 23, 2018, 08:52:12 PM »
BREAKING: CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro#

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #101 on: February 23, 2018, 08:57:14 PM »
BREAKING: CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro#
Just saw that, too, Pye.  With this kind of response, I think I'd DEMAND to carry if I was a teacher. ::)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #102 on: February 23, 2018, 08:57:37 PM »

ATF also banned shoelaces and rubber bands


Think of the millions of lives that saved.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #103 on: February 23, 2018, 08:58:00 PM »
BREAKING: CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro#

Stand down order? ???

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #104 on: February 23, 2018, 09:04:17 PM »
BREAKING: CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro#

Columbine gave rise to the "active shooter" approach to such scenarios, where police are to run to gunfire, without back up if necessary.  The sheriff needs to resign.


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #105 on: February 23, 2018, 09:09:13 PM »
Columbine gave rise to the "active shooter" approach to such scenarios, where police are to run to gunfire, without back up if necessary.  The sheriff needs to resign.

Who? This sheriff?! Nah! ;D


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #106 on: February 23, 2018, 09:10:03 PM »
BREAKING: CNN Reports FOUR Broward County Deputies Waited Outside School As Children Were Massacred

https://www.dailywire.com/news/27523/breaking-cnn-reports-four-broward-county-deputies-ben-shapiro#


Sometimes people crap their pants when faced with death. Other times they are just thinking about what a bunch of spoiled self-entitled turds the students they are about to die for are, and decide they would rather just go home.


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #107 on: February 23, 2018, 09:11:50 PM »
My apologies. You're right. Currently my brain is overloaded with influenza virus and not at optimum peak.  Where I said "automatic" please read "assault".

Bump stock law would have lessened the amount of deaths in Las Vegas. A good background check and wait period possibly would have stopped this recent massacre as well as the Texas church killing.  Are assault weapons registered? I'm not saying it's a cure all but an ounce of prevention is worth .... something

Would you accept any improved or new laws? Is the Australian model a good discussion starting point?  Is arming teachers really a good idea?  What could go wrong with that scenario? Anything less drastic feasible?

My opinion is nothing will change and we'll be stuck only with "thoughts and prayers" to protect our kids. Is that acceptable?

Hope you feel better, TL. The flu really sucks this time around.

The main reason I don't lean too far on the more-gun-restrictions side of the fence is gradualism. An example of gradualism is income tax, which was unconstitutional till the 16th Amendment. It was to be temporary, to be used to pay for WW1. It was 1% for most people and I think topped out at 2%. People complained loudly. Lol. Anyway, if you get lax about letting the gov't take liberties, that kind of thing tends to happen. You start with "sensible laws" controlling access to a certain class of firearms, and then some lawmaker declares any non-bolt-action rifle to be an "assault" rifle. Before you know it they're banning all semi-auto firearms and eventually many of us are paying about half of our income in state and federal income taxes and granny becomes a criminal because she doesn't turn in her single-shot .22.

I'm not sure a bump-stock law would've saved lives in Vegas. If he hadn't been able to rig one of those cheap things, he may have just decided to go ahead and put out the cash for a more expensive, even more lethal setup.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #108 on: February 23, 2018, 09:13:14 PM »
It's comforting to know if I call 911 for a home break in, deputies might arrive and take cover outside my house to listen to me being shot.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #109 on: February 23, 2018, 09:16:44 PM »
Who? This sheriff?! Nah! ;D


And people wonder why we need the second amendment.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #110 on: February 23, 2018, 09:18:10 PM »
And people wonder why we need the second amendment.

Yep, just look at that creepy zealot fucker. He just can't wait to roll over the peeps. He loves it! ::)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #111 on: February 23, 2018, 09:19:07 PM »
Are all Israelis still required to do two years of military service when they turn 18?

Yep. Girls included.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #112 on: February 23, 2018, 09:22:33 PM »
Hope you feel better, TL. The flu really sucks this time around.

The main reason I don't lean too far on the more-gun-restrictions side of the fence is gradualism. An example of gradualism is income tax, which was unconstitutional till the 16th Amendment. It was to be temporary, to be used to pay for WW1. It was 1% for most people and I think topped out at 2%. People complained loudly. Lol. Anyway, if you get lax about letting the gov't take liberties, that kind of thing tends to happen. You start with "sensible laws" controlling access to a certain class of firearms, and then some lawmaker declares any non-bolt-action rifle to be an "assault" rifle. Before you know it they're banning all semi-auto firearms and eventually many of us are paying about half of our income in state and federal income taxes and granny becomes a criminal because she doesn't turn in her single-shot .22.

I'm not sure a bump-stock law would've saved lives in Vegas. If he hadn't been able to rig one of those cheap things, he may have just decided to go ahead and put out the cash for a more expensive, even more lethal setup.

That is actually a point noone else has raised to my knowledge. This guy could have passed any background check and apparently had the resources to buy fully automatic weapons.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #113 on: February 23, 2018, 09:23:53 PM »
It's comforting to know if I call 911 for a home break in, deputies might arrive and take cover outside my house to listen to me being shot.

Hopefully a PE coach will come by and shield you.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #114 on: February 23, 2018, 09:28:37 PM »
Hopefully a PE coach will come by and shield you.
By the time he comes by the estate, I'll make a good "dead" weight for some overhead presses, at least.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #115 on: February 23, 2018, 09:37:49 PM »
Concealed carry has been around for years.  Anytime I'm in a public place that doesn't have CCW restrictions, such as schools, I could be next to somebody carrying legally.  Are there incidents?  Sure, but considering how many folks are armed and for as long as it's been around, there are remarkably few.  Hell, Florida, alone has over 1.7 million CCW licensees.  It's not like processes aren't already in place.  Can they be improved?  Of course. We don't live in Utopia and contrary to what the left wants you to believe, we're not going to be there anytime soon.  All the government in the world, from the FBI, on down to the local level, failed at that school. 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

Yep. Stuff does happen, but it does seem kinda obvious that the streets have not completely run amuck in FL as a result of wide-spread CCW. I think the argument can even be made that CCW has possibly prevented FL streets from running completely amuck.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #116 on: February 23, 2018, 09:44:36 PM »
Yep. Stuff does happen, but it does seem kinda obvious that the streets have not completely run amuck in FL as a result of wide-spread CCW. I think the argument can even be made that CCW has possibly prevented FL streets from running completely amuck.

In the old West (what I know of it anyway) people occasionally died in a gunfight but everyone called each other ma'am and sir. ;)

Probably not exactly but I've always thought that if everyone was armed and everyone knew that people would probably be a whole lot more polite overall. :D

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #117 on: February 23, 2018, 10:37:28 PM »
In the old West (what I know of it anyway) people occasionally died in a gunfight but everyone called each other ma'am and sir. ;)

Probably not exactly but I've always thought that if everyone was armed and everyone knew that people would probably be a whole lot more polite overall. :D

A gun-toting society is a polite society, sir.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #118 on: February 23, 2018, 10:38:26 PM »
A gun-toting society is a polite society, sir.

Yessirree bob, sir! ;D

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #119 on: February 23, 2018, 10:50:56 PM »
That is actually a point noone else has raised to my knowledge. This guy could have passed any background check and apparently had the resources to buy fully automatic weapons.
"They" teach this now as a "fallacy." Not a logical, tradtional sense but an "informal" one. "Slipperly slope" etc. Even though, actually, it happens ALL THE TIME.


No judgement but look here. Seatbelt laws or even drunk, then open container, then others in car, driving laws. Look at the progression. Not saying "bad" but get more constrictive when, originally proposed, passed, "only for driver." etc.