Author Topic: Teachers With Guns  (Read 1144 times)

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Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #60 on: February 23, 2018, 06:03:51 PM »
Yep, good assessment, and why I'm on the fence. How do you make sure the gun carriers are competent and it's all done in the safest manner possible and such? Seems like a logistics nightmare, but still perhaps possible. You're right tho, one screw up and all political hell breaks loose.
Concealed carry has been around for years.  Anytime I'm in a public place that doesn't have CCW restrictions, such as schools, I could be next to somebody carrying legally.  Are there incidents?  Sure, but considering how many folks are armed and for as long as it's been around, there are remarkably few.  Hell, Florida, alone has over 1.7 million CCW licensees.  It's not like processes aren't already in place.  Can they be improved?  Of course. We don't live in Utopia and contrary to what the left wants you to believe, we're not going to be there anytime soon.  All the government in the world, from the FBI, on down to the local level, failed at that school. 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #61 on: February 23, 2018, 06:10:33 PM »
Concealed carry has been around for years.  Anytime I'm in a public place that doesn't have CCW restrictions, such as schools, I could be next to somebody carrying legally.  Are there incidents?  Sure, but considering how many folks are armed and for as long as it's been around, there are remarkably few.  Hell, Florida, alone has over 1.7 million CCW licensees.  It's not like processes aren't already in place.  Can they be improved?  Of course. We don't live in Utopia and contrary to what the left wants you to believe, we're not going to be there anytime soon.  All the government in the world, from the FBI, on down to the local level, failed at that school. 

https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

And how many of the "incidents" are actually staged attempts at driving gun control legislation?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #62 on: February 23, 2018, 06:16:45 PM »
ol'Mrs Snodgrass nor any other school staff member should be forced to carry, it should be volunteers only.  There are tactical training templates already in place, such as that used by the TSA to arm/train commercial airline pilots. These are not combat situations, they are massacres.  You are not training staff members to fight the SAS or Navy SEALS, historically they would face a lone, screwed up kid with little to no tactical training other than video games.  (If a Beslan style attack on a US school occurs, God help us.  The impact will be greater than 9/11.)  Determining how many staff to arm and where to place them would be based on agorithms derivatived from past experience/research.  A gun for every X sq feet of school/campus or Y number of kids? The Israelis have been arming teachers for years with great success, there's a good place to start to develop deployment schemes. 

Thanks to "Troops to Teachers" and similar programs that have been in place since the mid 90s, there are a good number of former military working in our schools.  Add in the number of staff who have concealed carry permits, we already have a nucleus on which to start building programs if local communities choose to do so.  Clearly not every staff member is a candidate, and that's actually good.  If parents opt to pull their kids out of a school where the community supports armed staff, so be it.  Won't be the first or last time parents have pulled kids out a school due to their disagreeing with a policy.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #63 on: February 23, 2018, 06:17:05 PM »
I can handle guns and rifles. I have an NRA card. I am also a libtard, lemming, prog [add your favorite slur here] from evil California and have never shot a living thing but I did get a good bead on a jackrabbit once.

I have been considering the arm teachers idea.  True, a great boon to the gun manufacturers and sellers fronted by the NRA (always follow the money) but is it a reasonable deterrent to keep schoolkids safe?  And think, urban cops when they come across a gunman with an automatic rifle call SWAT. But teachers should do this?  There are so many practical considerations. What percentage of teachers should be armed? Training, etc., guns should be  locked up or strapped at all times? Costs?

And now the hard part. You're a certified strapped teacher watching the kids on the playground during recess. You hear gunshots on the other side of the quad. You tell your kids to run to homeroom and hope they get there safely unprotected while you charge toward the sounds of shooting. You see a young man with an assault rifle (you are going against him with a Glock 22, no armor except your recess whistle) firing at will who you recognize as one of your former students. "He seemed like such a quiet kid, maybe I should have reached out to him more", crosses your mind. You take aim and fire, or don't. He sees you first and fires at you while you see other kids naturally coming closer to you for protection. You shoot him and he dies. Or you die. Or other kids die. The gunman dies but you have to spend the rest of your life staying awake at night wondering if you could have saved him or more of your kids.   Turning our teachers into armed combatants is our first best solution? Seems really drastic.  How about Prevention first?

How about starting with sensible laws controlling access to automatic rifles?  Sam Zeif mentioned the laws enacted after the one and only school shooting in Australia:

... among other things, the Australian government “banned automatic and semiautomatic firearms, adopted new licensing requirements, established a national firearms registry, and instituted a 28-day waiting period for gun purchases. It also bought and destroyed more than 600,000 civilian-owned firearms, in a scheme that cost half a billion dollars and was funded by raising taxes.” The entire overhaul, Friedman pointed out, took just months to implement

https://www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2017/10/australia-gun-control/541710/

Automatic rifles have been illegal to manufacture since 1986 and are a minimum of $20,000, require an extensive background chexk an additional ATF tax. When has an automatic rifle that was legally obtained ever been used in a crime?

The fact remains, rifles and long guns are not the weapon of choice for murder. More people are killed by knives than by long guns. (All rigles and shotguns combined). Restrictions on long guns or semi-automatic weapons is just a precursor to the next set of unconstitutional gun restrictions.

The second amendment is not about having the right rifle to hunt with or to target shoot with.

If you want to change it then do it right. Draft a constitutional amendment. Get it passed by 2/3 of the house and senate and then ratified by 38 states. I will abide by it. Until then I will side with the founders.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #64 on: February 23, 2018, 06:21:12 PM »
ol'Mrs Snodgrass nor any other school staff member should be forced to carry, it should be volunteers only.  There are tactical training templates already in place, such as that used by the TSA to arm/train commercial airline pilots. These are not combat situations, they are massacres.  You are not training staff members to fight the SAS or Navy SEALS, historically they would face a lone, screwed up kid with little to no tactical training other than video games.  (If a Beslan style attack on a US school occurs, God help us.  The impact will be greater than 9/11.)  Determining how many staff to arm and where to place them would be based on agorithms derivatived from past experience/research.  A gun for every X sq feet of school/campus or Y number of kids? The Israelis have been arming teachers for years with great success, there's a good place to start to develop deployment schemes. 

Thanks to "Troops to Teachers" and similar programs that have been in place since the mid 90s, there are a good number of former military working in our schools.  Add in the number of staff who have concealed carry permits, we already have a nucleus on which to start building programs if local communities choose to do so.  Clearly not every staff member is a candidate, and that's actually good.  If parents opt to pull their kids out of a school where the community supports armed staff, so be it.  Won't be the first or last time parents have pulled kids out a school due to their disagreeing with a policy.

Look, man, just ask your friends in the intell community to stop their dirty tricks. That should clear up 75% of our domestic violence right there. ;)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #65 on: February 23, 2018, 06:24:34 PM »

...If you want to change it then do it right. Draft a constitutional amendment. Get it passed by 2/3 of the house and senate and then ratified by 38 states. I will abide by it. Until then I will side with the founders.
Here, here.  Are we going to be a country of law and due process or just another banana republic.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #66 on: February 23, 2018, 06:28:24 PM »
Here, here.  Are we going to be a country of law and due process or just another banana republic.

Well, we know what the Dems and the "intelligence" community want if they had their way. :o ::)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #67 on: February 23, 2018, 06:32:26 PM »
And how many of the "incidents" are actually staged attempts at driving gun control legislation?
What's interesting is CCW permit holders may be more law abiding than the police.

CCW Permit Holders Who Break The Law
CCW permit holders according to the statistics are unlikely to break the law. Remember there are over 16.3 million permit holders in the US so any violations are very rare. In fact there are probably no other groups of people in the US who are as law abiding. If we compare concealed carry permit holders to the police we can see just how law abiding they really are. The Police Quarterly conducted a study that showed police committed;

703 crimes per year (average from 2005 – 2007)
113 of those crimes involved firearms violations
That may be an underestimate when you take into consideration that not every crime committed by the police gets media attention. From 2005 – 2007 there was about 685,464 full time police officers in the US. This allows us to calculate that there was;

103 crimes per hundred thousand officers.

The crime rate for the entire US population was 37 times higher;

3,813 crimes per hundred thousand people

It may be that police crimes do not get reported as much due to fellow officers staying silent. But you cannot ignore the fact that there is a big gap between the police and the general population when it comes to reported crimes. If you look at the following figures you will see that concealed carry permit holders are actually more law abiding than the police.


from: https://www.gunstocarry.com/concealed-carry-statistics/

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #68 on: February 23, 2018, 06:34:17 PM »
Obviously, in addition to the teachers packing heat, there are undercover agents posing as students ready to take the guns from the weapons mule teachers, were any active threat to present.

Come on. Doesn't all this sound like fun? Way more ballin' than fuckin' duck and cover. Y'all just jelly of the brave new playground that corporate fascism has built for our youth of today.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #69 on: February 23, 2018, 06:34:45 PM »
Well, we know what the Dems and the "intelligence" community want if they had their way. :o ::)
Heh, heh... sadly.  The "rot" has really penetrated the MSM and the entrenched D.C. swamp. 

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #70 on: February 23, 2018, 06:36:37 PM »
ol'Mrs Snodgrass nor any other school staff member should be forced to carry, it should be volunteers only.  There are tactical training templates already in place, such as that used by the TSA to arm/train commercial airline pilots. These are not combat situations, they are massacres.  You are not training staff members to fight the SAS or Navy SEALS, historically they would face a lone, screwed up kid with little to no tactical training other than video games.  (If a Beslan style attack on a US school occurs, God help us.  The impact will be greater than 9/11.)  Determining how many staff to arm and where to place them would be based on agorithms derivatived from past experience/research.  A gun for every X sq feet of school/campus or Y number of kids? The Israelis have been arming teachers for years with great success, there's a good place to start to develop deployment schemes. 

Thanks to "Troops to Teachers" and similar programs that have been in place since the mid 90s, there are a good number of former military working in our schools.  Add in the number of staff who have concealed carry permits, we already have a nucleus on which to start building programs if local communities choose to do so.  Clearly not every staff member is a candidate, and that's actually good.  If parents opt to pull their kids out of a school where the community supports armed staff, so be it.  Won't be the first or last time parents have pulled kids out a school due to their disagreeing with a policy.

With all do respect, sir, this has to be one of the biggest examples of horseshit I have ever read in my life.  Combat (noun):  fighting between armed forces.  Combat(verb):  take action to reduce, destroy, or prevent something undesirable.  He's got a gun, you've got a gun.  You are shooting at each other.  You're trying to stop him (probably long after he has already killed several people).  Textbook. 

Airports/planes:  I can't get on a friggin' plane without getting my balls groped by three people and the whole patdown.  And speaking of the TSA...ever heard of the Air Marshals?

But what?  You don't want to pony up the dough and get someone who is trained not only to deal with this shit to the highest level, but is hired to focus on prevention?  What is the math teacher going to do while he's giving a lesson and junior is sneaking up on him while his back is turned.  Have you thought of any of this to any degree at all?    I want someone with eyes on the situation, not a backup plan.  And if they do give that pudgy shop teacher an OK to carry a gun, protect my kids, while doing his primary job...you're goddanm right I'll pull them.  This country has lost its collective mind.  I have to pay the price to fly safely, I'm more than willing to pay the price for the safety of my children.  No silly-ass half measures.


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #71 on: February 23, 2018, 07:15:12 PM »
With all do respect, sir, this has to be one of the biggest examples of horseshit I have ever read in my life.  Combat (noun):  fighting between armed forces.  Combat(verb):  take action to reduce, destroy, or prevent something undesirable.  He's got a gun, you've got a gun.  You are shooting at each other.  You're trying to stop him (probably long after he has already killed several people).  Textbook. 

Airports/planes:  I can't get on a friggin' plane without getting my balls groped by three people and the whole patdown.  And speaking of the TSA...ever heard of the Air Marshals?

But what?  You don't want to pony up the dough and get someone who is trained not only to deal with this shit to the highest level, but is hired to focus on prevention?  What is the math teacher going to do while he's giving a lesson and junior is sneaking up on him while his back is turned.  Have you thought of any of this to any degree at all?    I want someone with eyes on the situation, not a backup plan.  And if they do give that pudgy shop teacher an OK to carry a gun, protect my kids, while doing his primary job...you're goddanm right I'll pull them.  This country has lost its collective mind.  I have to pay the price to fly safely, I'm more than willing to pay the price for the safety of my children.  No silly-ass half measures.

I call bullshit. If your kids show up to school on Monday then you are a hypocrite and a bald face liar. Because guess what?  Your kids are no safer on Monday than those kids were in Florida.  STFU with your rhetoric.

Take the emotion and bloviating out of the discussion.

Keep letting the federal government come up with your panacea of feel good actions. In 1980 graduating seniors in the US were ranked second in the world. Jimmy Carter and the democratic congress created the Department of Education. Less than 50 years later graduates in the US are ranked 17th.

You thought the feds were so great with curriculum- then healthcare- now the safety o your children?  Take personal responsibility. In your mind, your kids are either safe or they are not. If you don’t think they are safe, do something about it. MV is not going to protect your kids.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #72 on: February 23, 2018, 07:24:21 PM »

If you want to change it then do it right. Draft a constitutional amendment. Get it passed by 2/3 of the house and senate and then ratified by 38 states. I will abide by it. Until then I will side with the founders.


1776 called, they want their constitution back.

Don’t you know the right left way to do things today is first you get a proposition on the state ballot. Like the California speed train. Preferably in June during an off year primary when no one shows up to vote. If that doesn’t work, you shop around the federal courts until you find a judge who’s “friendly” to your cause and will toss the proposition out against the people’s will. Like Proposition 187.  When you need to create law, bring some minuscule lawsuit to your favorite federal judge that will allow said federal judge to make up a new law that will become the law of the land regardless of its constitutionality. Like “separation of church and state”. Or “roe vs wade”.

Who needs the constitution. All those votes, and that government by the people for the people bullshit. 3/4 of the states to ratify it. That takes way to much time. Should be called the Constipation.

This is the new progressive United States man. We’re a democracy. :/


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #73 on: February 23, 2018, 07:32:32 PM »
With all do respect, sir, this has to be one of the biggest examples of horseshit I have ever read in my life.  Combat (noun):  fighting between armed forces.  Combat(verb):  take action to reduce, destroy, or prevent something undesirable.  He's got a gun, you've got a gun.  You are shooting at each other.  You're trying to stop him (probably long after he has already killed several people).  Textbook. 

Airports/planes:  I can't get on a friggin' plane without getting my balls groped by three people and the whole patdown.  And speaking of the TSA...ever heard of the Air Marshals?

But what?  You don't want to pony up the dough and get someone who is trained not only to deal with this shit to the highest level, but is hired to focus on prevention?  What is the math teacher going to do while he's giving a lesson and junior is sneaking up on him while his back is turned.  Have you thought of any of this to any degree at all?    I want someone with eyes on the situation, not a backup plan.  And if they do give that pudgy shop teacher an OK to carry a gun, protect my kids, while doing his primary job...you're goddanm right I'll pull them.  This country has lost its collective mind.  I have to pay the price to fly safely, I'm more than willing to pay the price for the safety of my children.  No silly-ass half measures.

mas·sa·cre (noun): an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people. (verb): deliberately and violently kill (a large number of people).  Now replace the word "people" with "children."  Pretty straight forward.

I think you missed the point relative to my mention of TSA.  They did develop, implement, and are still using a program to train and arm commercial aircrew since only a small percentage of US flights employ air marshals. There are far more armed pilots on US airliners than armed air marshals. Simply pointing out the TSA aircrew program as one example of existing training that could be used as a baseline to train school staff. That said, I get the feeling there is no tactical training program you would find acceptable for school staff, so debating a baseline is probably pointless.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I have have had children, and now have a grandchild, in school.  You are wrong,  I'd vote for a local school bond to pay for a professional security force to protect kids even if I had none of my own.  I think you are kidding yourself if you think many, let alone most, communities would pass such a levy.  But clearly in this case, many/most mean nothing, let's talk about your community.  If your community voted against funding for such a professional force, would you pull your kids out of school?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #74 on: February 23, 2018, 07:43:19 PM »
I call bullshit. If your kids show up to school on Monday then you are a hypocrite and a bald face liar. Because guess what?  Your kids are no safer on Monday than those kids were in Florida.  STFU with your rhetoric.

Well, you have a point here.  It is something I am looking into.  My neighbor homeschools her children.  I need to look into the curriculum, etc.  Our schools did some renovations last year and they are a bit more secure, but nothing that will stop someone with this kind of intention.  I think we are all guilty of feeling like "it won't happen here, not to us."


Take the emotion and bloviating out of the discussion.

Go fuck yourself.


Keep letting the federal government come up with your panacea of feel good actions. In 1980 graduating seniors in the US were ranked second in the world. Jimmy Carter and the democratic congress created the Department of Education. Less than 50 years later graduates in the US are ranked 17th.

You thought the feds were so great with curriculum- then healthcare- now the safety o your children?  Take personal responsibility. In your mind, your kids are either safe or they are not. If you don’t think they are safe, do something about it. MV is not going to protect your kids.

Where the hell did I ever say I wanted the Federal government to protect my kids?  Where, asshole?  And where did i ever state that I was satisfied with their dabbling in school curriculum or healthcare? 

The last time I checked, it was my state taxes and my property taxes, and out-of-pocket funds which help pay for my Children's education.   

I am pointing out that air travel is much safer because we now have enhanced security.  Why is that?  Because planes have been targeted, right?  Do they have math teachers moonlighting at the airport Gravity?  No, they are trained professionals.  I would like the same at teh school.

P.S.  Go fuck yourself again.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #75 on: February 23, 2018, 07:45:58 PM »
Well, you have a point here.  It is something I am looking into.  My neighbor homeschools her children.  I need to look into the curriculum, etc.  Our schools did some renovations last year and they are a bit more secure, but nothing that will stop someone with this kind of intention.  I think we are all guilty of feeling like "it won't happen here, not to us."
Go fuck yourself.

Where the hell did I ever say I wanted the Federal government to protect my kids?  Where, asshole?  And where did i ever state that I was satisfied with their dabbling in school curriculum or healthcare? 

The last time I checked, it was my state taxes and my property taxes, and out-of-pocket funds which help pay for my Children's education.   

I am pointing out that air travel is much safer because we now have enhanced security.  Why is that?  Because planes have been targeted, right?  Do they have math teachers moonlighting at the airport Gravity?  No, they are trained professionals.  I would like the same at teh school.

P.S.  Go fuck yourself again.

I can see that you missed the whole “or STFU” option.

Video later?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #76 on: February 23, 2018, 07:51:08 PM »
I call bullshit. If your kids show up to school on Monday then you are a hypocrite and a bald face liar. Because guess what?  Your kids are no safer on Monday than those kids were in Florida.  STFU with your rhetoric.

Take the emotion and bloviating out of the discussion.

Keep letting the federal government come up with your panacea of feel good actions. In 1980 graduating seniors in the US were ranked second in the world. Jimmy Carter and the democratic congress created the Department of Education. Less than 50 years later graduates in the US are ranked 17th.

You thought the feds were so great with curriculum- then healthcare- now the safety o your children?  Take personal responsibility. In your mind, your kids are either safe or they are not. If you don’t think they are safe, do something about it. MV is not going to protect your kids.

In all fairness to Billy Joe, this is an emotional subject.  I disagree with him, but I have no doubt he loves his kids as much as I do mine, either of us would take a bullet if necessary to protect our kids.  The frustration we all feel is there is no clear cut solution to such senseless violence.  Sadly, such is the world we live in.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #77 on: February 23, 2018, 07:55:39 PM »
In all fairness to Billy Joe, this is an emotional subject.  I disagree with him, but I have no doubt he loves his kids as much as I do mine, either of us would take a bullet if necessary to protect our kids.  The frustration we all feel is there is no clear cut solution to such senseless violence.  Sadly, such is the world we live in.

Only meant "is" in the first sentence above to be in boldface, can't get it to change.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #78 on: February 23, 2018, 07:57:33 PM »
Automatic rifles have been illegal to manufacture since 1986 and are a minimum of $20,000, require an extensive background chexk an additional ATF tax. When has an automatic rifle that was legally obtained ever been used in a crime?

The fact remains, rifles and long guns are not the weapon of choice for murder. More people are killed by knives than by long guns. (All rigles and shotguns combined). Restrictions on long guns or semi-automatic weapons is just a precursor to the next set of unconstitutional gun restrictions.

The second amendment is not about having the right rifle to hunt with or to target shoot with.

If you want to change it then do it right. Draft a constitutional amendment. Get it passed by 2/3 of the house and senate and then ratified by 38 states. I will abide by it. Until then I will side with the founders.

My apologies. You're right. Currently my brain is overloaded with influenza virus and not at optimum peak.  Where I said "automatic" please read "assault".

Bump stock law would have lessened the amount of deaths in Las Vegas. A good background check and wait period possibly would have stopped this recent massacre as well as the Texas church killing.  Are assault weapons registered? I'm not saying it's a cure all but an ounce of prevention is worth .... something

Would you accept any improved or new laws? Is the Australian model a good discussion starting point?  Is arming teachers really a good idea?  What could go wrong with that scenario? Anything less drastic feasible?

My opinion is nothing will change and we'll be stuck only with "thoughts and prayers" to protect our kids. Is that acceptable?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #79 on: February 23, 2018, 08:00:05 PM »
Maybe, but not quite that simple. That's Israel you're talking about. Every Israeli I've met has come across as a fairly no-nonsense, stable, self-assured type individual. I suspect folks are largely like that over there. Not so much around here I hate to say.

Are all Israelis still required to do two years of military service when they turn 18?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #80 on: February 23, 2018, 08:00:21 PM »
mas·sa·cre (noun): an indiscriminate and brutal slaughter of people. (verb): deliberately and violently kill (a large number of people).  Now replace the word "people" with "children."  Pretty straight forward.

I think you missed the point relative to my mention of TSA.  They did develop, implement, and are still using a program to train and arm commercial aircrew since only a small percentage of US flights employ air marshals. There are far more armed pilots on US airliners than armed air marshals. Simply pointing out the TSA aircrew program as one example of existing training that could be used as a baseline to train school staff. That said, I get the feeling there is no tactical training program you would find acceptable for school staff, so debating a baseline is probably pointless.

Don't feel like the Lone Ranger. I have have had children, and now have a grandchild, in school.  You are wrong,  I'd vote for a local school bond to pay for a professional security force to protect kids even if I had none of my own.  I think you are kidding yourself if you think many, let alone most, communities would pass such a levy.  But clearly in this case, many/most mean nothing, let's talk about your community.  If your community voted against funding for such a professional force, would you pull your kids out of school?

Point taken.  I see where you are pointing out that it may be better to do what you can if you can't have the best-case scenario.   I have a friend who is a police officer who works for a school district near Houston (Spring).  It is a wealthy district, and I think they have two officers per campus if I remember correctly.  The district my wife works for, and where my kids go to school is not wealthy.  A couple years ago, our super talked to a consultant and he said the cost of having a single security officer was approx $300/student if I remember correctly.  Yes, I would gladly pay it, and more.   We are strongly considering pulling them.   I realize that statistically they are more likely to be killed in a car accident on the way to school, but I just can't imagine what it would be like to have your children go out like that.  A horrible feeling of helplessness.   A local school bond would never pass here.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #81 on: February 23, 2018, 08:02:43 PM »
In all fairness to Billy Joe, this is an emotional subject.  I disagree with him, but I have no doubt he loves his kids as much as I do mine, either of us would take a bullet if necessary to protect our kids.  The frustration we all feel is there is no clear cut solution to such senseless violence.  Sadly, such is the world we live in.
I agree. I am just tired of people throwing down the gauntlet when it’s complete bullshit.

Billy Joe loves the TSA because they made it much safer?  I  call bullshit. A bunch of barely over minimum wage overweight and under intelligent individuals (40,000 of them) that fail 90% of the time when their own inspectors try to get contraband through security.

40,000 to protect a discrete number of airports. Now if I remember correctly ol BJM lives in Kansas. I bet there are less airports in the US that are protected by the TSA than there are schools in the Kansas City school district. Think about the logistics- and how many schools there are around the country. You cannot afford that kind of infrastructure and I dare say based on any reasonable risk assessment, you would find that more lives would be saved by putting seatbelts and airbags on school buses, making it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 from having a driver’s license,  making it illegal for a cell phone to allow texting while in a moving vehicle, and requiring every single homeowner with a swimming pool to employ life guards around the clock.

Fuck. Just outlaw alcohol if your goal is to make your kid’s lives safer.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #82 on: February 23, 2018, 08:04:41 PM »
You provide an excellent argument  Sister.  The one question I have is about access.  There are no limitations (not self-regulated) on illegal access whether it's a domestic black market, import or, from what I hear, the dark web.  The illegal access of firearms and the buyers and sellers is where the focus is needed IMHO.

Thanks, my Sister. Yes. Access is an important consideration. Should we do something about that?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #83 on: February 23, 2018, 08:09:37 PM »
This was a setup by the Democrats and the FBI for gun control. Anyone one who still can't see that is either retarded or thorouighly brainwashed.

This was a setup by the Democrats and the FBI for gun control. Anyone one who still can't see that is either retarded or thorouighly brainwashed.

Just need a reality check here. Is the "this" you are referring to the Florida shooting or something else?  Asking for a dead kid

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #84 on: February 23, 2018, 08:17:19 PM »
I agree. I am just tired of people throwing down the gauntlet when it’s complete bullshit.

Billy Joe loves the TSA because they made it much safer?  I  call bullshit. A bunch of barely over minimum wage overweight and under intelligent individuals (40,000 of them) that fail 90% of the time when their own inspectors try to get contraband through security.

40,000 to protect a discrete number of airports. Now if I remember correctly ol BJM lives in Kansas. I bet there are less airports in the US that are protected by the TSA than there are schools in the Kansas City school district. Think about the logistics- and how many schools there are around the country. You cannot afford that kind of infrastructure and I dare say based on any reasonable risk assessment, you would find that more lives would be saved by putting seatbelts and airbags on school buses, making it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 from having a driver’s license,  making it illegal for a cell phone to allow texting while in a moving vehicle, and requiring every single homeowner with a swimming pool to employ life guards around the clock.

Fuck. Just outlaw alcohol if your goal is to make your kid’s lives safer.

Ha.  I guess I must be the 10%.  I can't get on there with so much as a toothpick. 

Again, point taken about statistics.  The thing is, I could accept my child being killed in an accident. Being shot to death, not so much. 

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #85 on: February 23, 2018, 08:20:08 PM »
My apologies. You're right. Currently my brain is overloaded with influenza virus and not at optimum peak.  Where I said "automatic" please read "assault".

Bump stock law would have lessened the amount of deaths in Las Vegas. A good background check and wait period possibly would have stopped this recent massacre as well as the Texas church killing.  Are assault weapons registered? I'm not saying it's a cure all but an ounce of prevention is worth .... something

Would you accept any improved or new laws? Is the Australian model a good discussion starting point?  Is arming teachers really a good idea?  What could go wrong with that scenario? Anything less drastic feasible?

My opinion is nothing will change and we'll be stuck only with "thoughts and prayers" to protect our kids. Is that acceptable?

Vegas was a complete outlier so I will get it out of the way. Bump stocks are relatively knew but did you know that there are at least two different devices that clamp on the trigger guard of semiautomatic rifles and they ahve been available on the open market for at least 20 years and they have NEVER been used in commission of a crime?  I believe we are lucky he used bump stocks. I believe he would. Have killed many more people if he had aimed and fired. He might not have wounded as many, but I believe he would have killed more.

In both the church shooting and Florida school you had breakdowns in the reporting and follow up. There was no breakdown in the background check. The Air Force never reported the domestic abuse and the 39 interactions with local police and two tips to the FBI never even caused this kid to be placed on the No Fly list, which doesn’t take ANY Adjudication or due process.

We don’t have a gun law problem. We have a failure to enforce existing gun laws. Less than .1% of the people that lie when trying to purchase a firearm are ever contacted by the ATF. They just try again or by from a private citizen when they are turned down.

I am against any new gun laws at the federal level. That is my position. If a state wants to enact their own, I think that is fine, but sooner or later the Supreme Court will rule if they are legal (i.e Heller)

If you don’t like the second amendment then change it.

After you outlaw alcohol.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #86 on: February 23, 2018, 08:20:58 PM »
I agree. I am just tired of people throwing down the gauntlet when it’s complete bullshit.

Billy Joe loves the TSA because they made it much safer?  I  call bullshit. A bunch of barely over minimum wage overweight and under intelligent individuals (40,000 of them) that fail 90% of the time when their own inspectors try to get contraband through security.

40,000 to protect a discrete number of airports. Now if I remember correctly ol BJM lives in Kansas. I bet there are less airports in the US that are protected by the TSA than there are schools in the Kansas City school district. Think about the logistics- and how many schools there are around the country. You cannot afford that kind of infrastructure and I dare say based on any reasonable risk assessment, you would find that more lives would be saved by putting seatbelts and airbags on school buses, making it illegal for anyone under the age of 21 from having a driver’s license,  making it illegal for a cell phone to allow texting while in a moving vehicle, and requiring every single homeowner with a swimming pool to employ life guards around the clock.

Fuck. Just outlaw alcohol if your goal is to make your kid’s lives safer.

People like us sometimes forget most of the world doesn't see things as problems to be solved with wishbone diagrams and system safety analysis.  Obviously I agree with your risk assessment analogy, but most of the tragedies  you mentioned the world has largely, and sadly, grown to accept.  I know we also agree the world must never accept the slaughter of our children in schools.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #87 on: February 23, 2018, 08:24:30 PM »
Is the "this" you are referring to the Florida shooting or something else?  Asking for a dead kid

How’d that law banning murder workout? Asking for 17,000 murdered in 2016. But don’t worry, another piece of paper will protect you.

As long as we can point the finger at Republicans and the NRA.




Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #88 on: February 23, 2018, 08:27:26 PM »
Ha.  I guess I must be the 10%.  I can't get on there with so much as a toothpick. 

Again, point taken about statistics.  The thing is, I could accept my child being killed in an accident. Being shot to death, not so much.

And again, I will ask why. Because kids die from accidents every day. We are conditioned to accept that as a fact of life. Shooting deaths in a school are rare. They are gnarly. They get the front page. I knew a high school junior that was killed in an accident. She was texting and hit a light pole. She got stuck in her SUV and burned to death while a tow truck driver and another passerby got burned trying their best to pull her out. Did that receive front page news and 24 hour coverage on all the cable channels about how we should raise the driving age to 21 or outlaw cell phones with text messaging capability.

I rest my case.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #89 on: February 23, 2018, 08:31:07 PM »
My apologies. You're right. Currently my brain is overloaded with influenza virus and not at optimum peak.  Where I said "automatic" please read "assault".

Bump stock law would have lessened the amount of deaths in Las Vegas. A good background check and wait period possibly would have stopped this recent massacre as well as the Texas church killing.  Are assault weapons registered? I'm not saying it's a cure all but an ounce of prevention is worth .... something

Would you accept any improved or new laws? Is the Australian model a good discussion starting point?  Is arming teachers really a good idea?  What could go wrong with that scenario? Anything less drastic feasible?

My opinion is nothing will change and we'll be stuck only with "thoughts and prayers" to protect our kids. Is that acceptable?

I believe you're right, Tigerlily.  There are too many arguments to be made at each point.

Examples:

Define "assault" rifle.  Is it a particular make and model, a caliber,  or ANY gun used to actually assault someone?

Bump Stock:  A piece of plastic with springs, used to find that sweet spot with recoil/bolt break.  You can do the exact same thing with your thumb thru a belt loop and your index/trigger finger tension just right.