Author Topic: Teachers With Guns  (Read 1178 times)

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Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #120 on: February 23, 2018, 10:57:41 PM »

Just heard Gov. Scott will make having one law enforcement officer in every public school mandatory by the beginning of the 2018 school year. More than one if student population is over 1,000. School districts/boards can also request Sherriffs departments to train additional school personnel or additional reserve officers to protect the students

Seems better to me than arming teachers with no professional back up.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #121 on: February 23, 2018, 11:06:03 PM »
Hope you feel better, TL. The flu really sucks this time around.

The main reason I don't lean too far on the more-gun-restrictions side of the fence is gradualism. An example of gradualism is income tax, which was unconstitutional till the 16th Amendment. It was to be temporary, to be used to pay for WW1. It was 1% for most people and I think topped out at 2%. People complained loudly. Lol. Anyway, if you get lax about letting the gov't take liberties, that kind of thing tends to happen. You start with "sensible laws" controlling access to a certain class of firearms, and then some lawmaker declares any non-bolt-action rifle to be an "assault" rifle. Before you know it they're banning all semi-auto firearms and eventually many of us are paying about half of our income in state and federal income taxes and granny becomes a criminal because she doesn't turn in her single-shot .22.

I'm not sure a bump-stock law would've saved lives in Vegas. If he hadn't been able to rig one of those cheap things, he may have just decided to go ahead and put out the cash for a more expensive, even more lethal setup.

Thanks, Z. Slowly recovering. Like I said I doubt any gun laws will change. They haven't yet. At first glance,  I like Scott's proposal for some immediate professional assistance to protect schoolkids

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #122 on: February 23, 2018, 11:12:39 PM »
Well, there you go again, using dead kids as a political football when it was your people who killed them (No, I don't mean they pulled the trigger. Grow the fuck up! ::))



That was a question. I will repeat slowly. When you said "This was a setup by the Democrats and the FBI for gun control",  were you referring to the school shooting or something else?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #123 on: February 23, 2018, 11:12:45 PM »
Just heard Gov. Scott will make having one law enforcement officer in every public school mandatory by the beginning of the 2018 school year. More than one if student population is over 1,000. School districts/boards can also request Sherriffs departments to train additional school personnel or additional reserve officers to protect the students

Seems better to me than arming teachers with no professional back up.

How is that different than the deputy sheriff that was on duty?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #124 on: February 23, 2018, 11:17:10 PM »
"They" teach this now as a "fallacy." Not a logical, tradtional sense but an "informal" one. "Slipperly slope" etc. Even though, actually, it happens ALL THE TIME.


No judgement but look here. Seatbelt laws or even drunk, then open container, then others in car, driving laws. Look at the progression. Not saying "bad" but get more constrictive when, originally proposed, passed, "only for driver." etc.

Yep. When I moved to Texas you could drink while you were driving to a state park, but you couldn’t drink once you got there.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #125 on: February 23, 2018, 11:19:41 PM »
That was a question. I will repeat slowly. When you said "This was a setup by the Democrats and the FBI for gun control",  were you referring to the school shooting or something else?

Yes, just look at the facts surrounding it.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #126 on: February 23, 2018, 11:23:35 PM »
How is that different than the deputy sheriff that was on duty?

You said he will eat his gun so I doubt he would be available. Even if he doesn't, I believe his law enforcement career is over. I think schoolteachers would die for their kids but I think the killing part might be better left to professional law enforcement if possible.

Did you read my scenario in my first post? Can you imagine all the things that could go wrong with unbattletested teachers having to react and make these snap judgments? Just because they know how to shoot a gun?  Ask our battle veterans here how easy it is

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #127 on: February 23, 2018, 11:26:09 PM »
In an ideal world:

School loudspeaker: “would those in our faculty whove chosen to arm themselves so they can protect themselves and our students rather than burying their head in the sand and waiting for the government take care of them please come to the science to department immediately, we’ve got another goofy fucktard here with a gun”


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #128 on: February 23, 2018, 11:29:29 PM »
Yes, just look at the facts surrounding it.

Clarify, please. I want to make sure I understand you, perfectly. The school shooting was a set up? Planned and executed by Democrats and the FBI to encourage more gun control laws?

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #129 on: February 23, 2018, 11:30:06 PM »
Clarify, please. I want to make sure I understand you. The school shooting was a set up? Planned and executed by Democrats and the FBI to encourage more gun control laws?

Exactly. Well, planned, anyway. The one guy (of the 3 reported) that they're pinning it all on is probably just some nut case who they knew would eventually go off and they probably helped and encouraged him along the way.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #130 on: February 23, 2018, 11:40:40 PM »
You said he will eat his gun so I doubt he would be available. Even if he doesn't, I believe his law enforcement career is over. I think schoolteachers would die for their kids but I think the killing part might be better left to professional law enforcement if possible.

Did you read my scenario in my first post? Can you imagine all the things that could go wrong with unbattletested teachers having to react and make these snap judgments? Just because they know how to shoot a gun?  Ask our battle veterans here how easy it is

I read your scenario. I didn’t believe it was plausible but I respect your out of the box thinking.

All I see is this governor making a political decision. There was already an armed sheriff on duty. I see no difference other than publicity. See? I can criticize a republican too.

I think the possibility that any given employee on school grounds MAY be carrying a concealed handgun is much more of a deterrent than saying the guy with the blue uniform by the front door has a gun.

I don’t envy any concealed handgun owner that has to pull their weapon. Even if they are 100% in the right and do everything exactly correct, their life is going to be destroyed.

I see more problems that haven’t even been discussed here. What if a teacher is carrying and refuses to draw their weapon and people are killed?  You can’t compel a volunteer to kill someone else. What happens if a teacher comes across a  violent assault where a student is bashing someone to death with a brick. Will deadly force be allowed on school property when the attacker doesn’t have a gun?  If that was happening in a parking lot of a Texas Walmart, deadly force would be justified.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #131 on: February 23, 2018, 11:41:55 PM »

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #132 on: February 23, 2018, 11:50:02 PM »
Exactly. Well, planned, anyway. The one guy (of the 3 reported) that they're pinning it all on is probably just some nut case who they knew would eventually go off and they probably helped and encouraged him along the way.

Thank you for answering my question

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #133 on: February 23, 2018, 11:52:11 PM »
I read your scenario. I didn’t believe it was plausible but I respect your out of the box thinking.

All I see is this governor making a political decision. There was already an armed sheriff on duty. I see no difference other than publicity. See? I can criticize a republican too.

I think the possibility that any given employee on school grounds MAY be carrying a concealed handgun is much more of a deterrent than saying the guy with the blue uniform by the front door has a gun.

I don’t envy any concealed handgun owner that has to pull their weapon. Even if they are 100% in the right and do everything exactly correct, their life is going to be destroyed.

I see more problems that haven’t even been discussed here. What if a teacher is carrying and refuses to draw their weapon and people are killed?  You can’t compel a volunteer to kill someone else. What happens if a teacher comes across a  violent assault where a student is bashing someone to death with a brick. Will deadly force be allowed on school property when the attacker doesn’t have a gun?  If that was happening in a parking lot of a Texas Walmart, deadly force would be justified.

If he sounds like a Democrat

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #134 on: February 24, 2018, 12:07:06 AM »
Thank you for answering my question

No problem. You could see it yourself if you look at the facts. He was on the FBI's radar a few times in the last couple years. Sorry but the neglegence sounds intentional and now we know to what end. It's also been reported that, aside from being a big Hillary supporter, 4 of the sheriff's deputies waited outside until the shooting stopped. If that's not a stand down order I don't know what is. They also reported a disturbance at the school about quarter past noon but the shooting didn't happen until after 2pm. Is this starting to add up for you? Am I getting through to you, Alba?!


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #135 on: February 24, 2018, 12:24:28 AM »
No problem. You could see it yourself if you look at the facts. He was on the FBI's radar a few times in the last couple years. Sorry but the neglegence sounds intentional and now we know to what end. It's also been reported that, aside from being a big Hillary supporter, 4 of the sheriff's deputies waited outside until the shooting stopped. If that's not a stand down order I don't know what is. They also reported a disturbance at the school about quarter past noon but the shooting didn't happen until after 2pm. Is this starting to add up for you? Am I getting through to you, Alba?!


Truth is stranger than fiction


Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #136 on: February 24, 2018, 12:32:08 AM »
Truth is stranger than fiction





Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #137 on: February 24, 2018, 12:33:51 AM »
I actually don’t care much if Florida raises the age to 21. I have issues with it at the federal level. Any gun laws should be by state.

I think it is unconstitutional at the federal level. No other rights in the bill of rights has an age restriction.

If drinking is 21, and you are going to establish 21 as the age for firearms then we need to make 21 the age for military service and for the right to vote.

^This^  I also still think appropriate signage would deter some would-be shooters.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #138 on: February 24, 2018, 12:37:43 AM »
^This^  I also still think appropriate signage would deter some would-be shooters.

I'd be OK with it all being 21. Anyone much older than that knows that by today's standards that's still pretty fucking young even though we should have our shit together in some sense by then. People used to at one time, apparently.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #139 on: February 24, 2018, 12:38:39 AM »
Truth is stranger than fiction


Oh, what a tangled web they weave. ::)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #140 on: February 24, 2018, 12:41:33 AM »
ol'Mrs Snodgrass nor any other school staff member should be forced to carry, it should be volunteers only.  There are tactical training templates already in place, such as that used by the TSA to arm/train commercial airline pilots. These are not combat situations, they are massacres.  You are not training staff members to fight the SAS or Navy SEALS, historically they would face a lone, screwed up kid with little to no tactical training other than video games.  (If a Beslan style attack on a US school occurs, God help us.  The impact will be greater than 9/11.)  Determining how many staff to arm and where to place them would be based on agorithms derivatived from past experience/research.  A gun for every X sq feet of school/campus or Y number of kids? The Israelis have been arming teachers for years with great success, there's a good place to start to develop deployment schemes. 

Thanks to "Troops to Teachers" and similar programs that have been in place since the mid 90s, there are a good number of former military working in our schools.  Add in the number of staff who have concealed carry permits, we already have a nucleus on which to start building programs if local communities choose to do so.  Clearly not every staff member is a candidate, and that's actually good.  If parents opt to pull their kids out of a school where the community supports armed staff, so be it.  Won't be the first or last time parents have pulled kids out a school due to their disagreeing with a policy.

More excellent points.  No kid has combat training.  It wouldn't take a Seal to take down one of these shooters.  I also emphasize only school employees who volunteer should carry and keep the gun hidden.  You don't want to advertise which teacher is carrying and which isn't.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #141 on: February 24, 2018, 12:44:44 AM »
More excellent points.  No kid has combat training.  It wouldn't take a Seal to take down one of these shooters.  I also emphasize only school employees who volunteer should carry and keep the gun hidden.  You don't want to advertise which teacher is carrying and which isn't.

Excellent Trumpian point! Don't give away your plans to potential enemies.

Now what's that rule? Plays it cool. 8)

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #142 on: February 24, 2018, 12:59:00 AM »
Just heard Gov. Scott will make having one law enforcement officer in every public school mandatory by the beginning of the 2018 school year. More than one if student population is over 1,000. School districts/boards can also request Sherriffs departments to train additional school personnel or additional reserve officers to protect the students

Seems better to me than arming teachers with no professional back up.

Probably the best thing to do but I'd also add a handful of conceal-carry well-trained teachers who volunteer to help. Also, add signs that say there are armed personnel on the campus.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #143 on: February 24, 2018, 01:03:04 AM »
I'd be OK with it all being 21. Anyone much older than that knows that by today's standards that's still pretty fucking young even though we should have our shit together in some sense by then. People used to at one time, apparently.

If you can join the military at 18, you should be able to own a gun and have a beer, IMHO.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #144 on: February 24, 2018, 01:04:00 AM »
No problem. You could see it yourself if you look at the facts. He was on the FBI's radar a few times in the last couple years. Sorry but the neglegence sounds intentional and now we know to what end. It's also been reported that, aside from being a big Hillary supporter, 4 of the sheriff's deputies waited outside until the shooting stopped. If that's not a stand down order I don't know what is. They also reported a disturbance at the school about quarter past noon but the shooting didn't happen until after 2pm. Is this starting to add up for you? Am I getting through to you, Alba?!



This is appalling. This deserves a special investigation. Unfortunately everyone’s tied up right now with the witch hunt to no where.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #145 on: February 24, 2018, 01:05:13 AM »
If you can join the military at 18, you should be able to own a gun and have a beer, IMHO.

Drinking and buying guns, 21. If you join military, your military ID gives you same privelages as a 21 year old.  Voting, raise the age to 40.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #146 on: February 24, 2018, 01:05:18 AM »
If you can join the military at 18, you should be able to own a gun and have a beer, IMHO.

Yeah, I was including moving that up to 21 too. Maybe the trade off would be to have some sort of mandatory domestic service before then, like Israel does.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #147 on: February 24, 2018, 01:21:06 AM »
Probably the best thing to do but I'd also add a handful of conceal-carry well-trained teachers who volunteer to help. Also, add signs that say there are armed personnel on the campus.

I like it. Lots of "armed personnel" signs. Don't even need actual armed teachers. Just the appearance. But also have a few baby-faced undercover officers mixed in with the kids who look a little like Pete DeLuise and Johnny Depp.

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #148 on: February 24, 2018, 01:58:36 AM »
I like it. Lots of "armed personnel" signs. Don't even need actual armed teachers. Just the appearance. But also have a few baby-faced undercover officers mixed in with the kids who look a little like Pete DeLuise and Johnny Depp.

Pete DeLuise, ok. But Johnny Depp was way too cute for covert work. All the girls would be crushing on him, bringing attention to him and constantly threatening to blow his ... cover

Re: Teachers With Guns
« Reply #149 on: February 24, 2018, 02:00:07 AM »
Pete DeLuise, ok. But Johnny Depp was way too cute for covert work. All the girls would have a crush on him and constantly threatening to blow his ... cover

Somehow I knew that would get you to claw your way to a keyboard.