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President Donald J. Trump

Started by The General, February 11, 2011, 01:33:34 AM

WildCard

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 30, 2018, 02:01:09 PM
I never thought I'd need to teach a class on Christianity 101 but it looks like it is needed.  I guess my only question is why the hostility?

but why tho?

Dr. MD MD

And, since you seem so hopelessly lost about this I'm going to tell you what the real difference is. The God of the old testament was an angry God who prescribed punishment and encouraged his followers to do the same. Jesus said no, this is not the true nature of God. He's really loving and forgiving, the way a father is to his children (ideally). That's it.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 01:58:37 PM
Hence, NOT Judaism. To the Jews it's radically different. Why can't you accept that? Why do you keep trying to subsume their religion?!

Their religion is part of our religion but not the whole enchilada.  The Nazis sure as hell wouldn't have distinguished between the original Christians and traditional Jews.  They would have put a star of David on them as well before sending them to the ovens.

Jojo

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 01:58:37 PM
Hence, NOT Judaism. To the Jews it's radically different. Why can't you accept that? Why do you keep trying to subsume their religion?!
I do it to save souls.  I'm a doubting Thomas.  As a Gentile in order to become a Christian, I needed to go to some places most people might think are weird.  Along the way I found out that the Jews (IMHO) are indoctrinated & even lie to themselves collectively.  Pardon me, if that offends anyone.  It's just my opinion, as someone who has known & respected many Jews in multi-faith social environments.
Me

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: WildCard on June 30, 2018, 02:01:22 PM
fuck why! you don't have to know why something is, to know that it is
it's just a fact of history. it was a little jewish cult for centuries

Go take your meds, goober! ::)

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 12:17:46 PM
Jew trying to make the whole world Jewish.








Baseless conspiracy theory! They don't want to normalize kidfucking, that's totally a conspiracy theory too.

Gd5150

Quote from: ItsOver on June 30, 2018, 01:14:50 PM
Too many idiots and mentally ill dingbats, and folks willing to take advantage of them for power.  Today's educational system regressive educational indoctrination just adds to the problem.  Capture them at an early age and it is tough to change the programming later.



Cmon that would never happen in this day and age. Especially with such an open minded education industry.

https://youtu.be/08BAfKCfu74

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:03:07 PM
And, since you seem so hopelessly lost about this I'm going to tell you what the real difference is. The God of the old testament was an angry God who prescribed punishment and encouraged his followers to do the same. Jesus said no, this is not the true nature of God. He's really loving and forgiving, the way a father is to his children (ideally). That's it.

That's a warmed-over New Age take on Christianity.  I can assure you the God of the New Testament can become angry just as Jesus was angry at the temple. Jesus also called that same temple His Father's Temple.  Why would he call a synagogue his Father's Temple unless he was Jewish?  Why would he get angry there since it wasn't his religion? Also, you do know Revelations, right?  God gets pretty angry there!


Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 30, 2018, 02:12:50 PM
That's a warmed-over New Age take on Christianity.  I can assure you the God of the New Testament can become angry just as Jesus was angry at the temple. Jesus also called that same temple His Father's Temple.  Why would he call a synagogue his Father's Temple unless he was Jewish?  Why would he get angry there since it wasn't his religion? Also, you do know Revelations, right?  God gets pretty angry there!

You get lost in silly details and lose the central thread. Best of luck on your Indiana Jones type adventure though. ::)

Jojo

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:03:07 PM
And, since you seem so hopelessly lost about this I'm going to tell you what the real difference is. The God of the old testament was an angry God who prescribed punishment and encouraged his followers to do the same. Jesus said no, this is not the true nature of God. He's really loving and forgiving, the way a father is to his children (ideally). That's it.
If that keeps you faithful, far be it from me to disturb you.  I'm sorry.

To my mind, that kind of thinking was too black and white, too divergent, for me to believe, knowing that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy.  I personally was not able to have Christian faith with that paradigm,

I learned from my search that of course, God in the OT is very hard to accept.  However, original people DID accept him.  They were much closer to God in origin, having ancestors who knew God, ancestors who literally wrestled with him (I guess), ancestors who spoke directly to God, etc...

I also learned that as seen in the OT, God is highly emotional.  For some reason, I think that is really important.  I suspect technology will eventually try to obsolete emotion.

I learned that God is subjective, again another uncomfortable topic.  God plays favorites.  God is biased.  God has preferences which might seem arbitrary.

Do I need to apologize that those things made God more "human" to me?  I am so grateful for the things I learned about God from the Old Testament.

I realize I've skipped over OT violence; I just don't know what to say.

In the end, I decided there is a slight difference between "good" and "holy".  I believe God is holy.  But I don't feel comfortable going around saying God is "good".  There just is some slight difference.  Some things have to be a mystery, since we are not God and can't fathom everything.

You know, though, God can't be with evil because then God would not be holy.  There has to be a separation.  Yet God wanted us to have free will.  Free will leads to some evil.  Yet God wants us, loves us.  So he sent a huge part of himself to be killed, which died.  Part of God died in a paradox.  The part that died took all our sins with Him.  He sacrificed part of Himself so that we can unite with him for eternity.  The OT had a lot of emphasis on sin.  No one could completely obey God's laws in the first 5 books.  Every person was a sinner.  It was humanly impossible to keep laws which number practically more than you can count.  There was no doubt in the people's minds that they had sinned & needed a Messiah to redeem them in God's eyes.

Me


Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 14 on June 30, 2018, 02:16:14 PM
If that keeps you faithful, far be it from me to disturb you.  I'm sorry.

To my mind, that kind of thinking was too black and white, too divergent, for me to believe, knowing that Jesus fulfilled OT prophecy.  I personally was not able to have Christian faith with that paradigm,

I learned from my search that of course, God in the OT is very hard to accept.  However, original people DID accept him.  They were much closer to God in origin, having ancestors who knew God, ancestors who literally wrestled with him (I guess), ancestors who spoke directly to God, etc...

I also learned that as seen in the OT, God is highly emotional.  For some reason, I think that is really important.  I suspect technology will eventually try to obsolete emotion.

I learned that God is subjective, again another uncomfortable topic.  God plays favorites.  God is biased.  God has preferences which might seem arbitrary.

Do I need to apologize that those things made God more "human" to me?  I am so grateful for the things I learned about God from the Old Testament.

I realize I've skipped over OT violence; I just don't know what to say.

In the end, I decided there is a slight difference between "good" and "holy".  I believe God is holy.  But I don't feel comfortable going around saying God is "good".  There just is some slight difference.  Some things have to be a mystery, since we are not God and can't fathom everything.

You know, though, God can't be with evil because then God would not be holy.  There has to be a separation.  Yet God wanted us to have free will.  Free will leads to some evil.  Yet God wants us, loves us.  So he sent a huge part of himself to be killed, which died.  Part of God died in a paradox.  The part that died took all our sins with Him.  He sacrificed part of Himself so that we can unite with him for eternity.  The OT had a lot of emphasis on sin.  No one could completely obey God's laws in the first 5 books.  Every person was a sinner.  It was humanly impossible to keep laws which number practically more than you can count.  There was no doubt in the people's minds that they had sinned & needed a Messiah to redeem them in God's eyes.

Me

TL; DR ::)


aldousburbank

I'm more of a cactus hugging animist, less of a burnt offering kind of guy. 

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:15:06 PM
You get lost in silly details and lose the central thread. Best of luck on your Indiana Jones type adventure though. ::)

When I offer reliable facts about Jesus and Christianity you dismiss them as silly details.  LOL.  I get it.  Whatever, Doc.  I have to do some chores.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 30, 2018, 02:18:46 PM
When I offer reliable facts about Jesus and Christianity you dismiss them as silly details.  LOL.  I get it.  Whatever, Doc.  I have to do some chores.

Most of your "reliable facts" are just quotes from the old testament.  ;D

You do know about circular logic, don't you? :D

It's OK, I thought I heard your mom calling you too. ;)

pyewacket

Quote from: ItsOver on June 30, 2018, 01:32:21 PM
LOL. Yes, look at The Pud.  They really worked him over at a tender age, across the pond.  Good to see you in "MV's Wondrous World," Pye.

It's always a pleasure, IO. Happy to see many of the old regulars and some new people.

Look at the Pud?- Only if I have to- ;)

Isn't MV's Wondrous World two doors down from Pee Wee's Playhouse?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BKcYGOIJhqo

I am beginning to think that some people actually see the world this way.

WildCard

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:15:06 PM
You get lost in silly details and lose the central thread. Best of luck on your Indiana Jones type adventure though. ::)

the red letters are not "silly details"
even if you don't include revelations, they don't resemble your disney jesus

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: aldousburbank on June 30, 2018, 02:18:35 PM
I'm more of a cactus hugging animist, less of a burnt offering kind of guy.

I respect that WAY more than chumps trying to turn Christianity into Judaism. ;)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: WildCard on June 30, 2018, 02:23:45 PM
the red letters are not "silly details"
even if you don't include revelations, they don't resemble your disney jesus

Explain.

Jojo

This brief essay says near the end, that as violent as the Hebrews were, other nearly cultures were also very, very violent in those years.
https://relevantmagazine.com/god/why-was-god-old-testament-so-violent

aldousburbank

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:23:57 PM
I respect that WAY more than chumps trying to turn Christianity into Judaism. ;)

I'm still bummed about Christianity becoming involved with religion.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:21:46 PM
Most of your "reliable facts" are just quotes from the old testament.  ;D

You do know about circular logic, don't you? :D

It's OK, I thought I heard your mom calling you too. ;)

I didn't quote a single bit of the Old Testament.  My referrals were all to the New Testament.  Start reading the Bible more rather than saying silly things that have no merit.  I'll be happy to debate you more when you've done your homework.  Ciao!

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 30, 2018, 02:26:59 PM
I didn't quote a single bit of the Old Testament.  My referrals were all to the New Testament.  Start reading the Bible more rather than saying silly things that have no merit.  I'll be happy to debate you more when you've done your homework.  Ciao!

No, it's up to you to explain your side of things and on that you've failed...utterly. ::)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: aldousburbank on June 30, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
I'm still bummed about Christianity becoming involved with religion.

+1

Quote from: aldousburbank on June 30, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
I'm still bummed about Christianity becoming involved with religion.

That's humanity for you.  We manage to fuck up everything. ;)

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on June 30, 2018, 02:29:50 PM
That's humanity for you.  We manage to fuck up everything. ;)

Right! Like confusing Christianity with Judaism. :D

WildCard

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:24:29 PM
Explain.

the temple thing that 21 was talkin about, the way he talked about the pharisees and sadducees, he used the word hell more than any patriarch before him . . .

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 30, 2018, 02:30:58 PM
Right! Like confusing Christianity with Judaism. :D

Would Forrest like a box of chocolates?   8)

Jojo

Quote from: aldousburbank on June 30, 2018, 02:26:35 PM
I'm still bummed about Christianity becoming involved with religion.
I know what you mean.  Sometimes I suspect the False Church is sitting right alongside in the pew...  And what to do?  One often becomes like one's associates, but then not to attend at all isn't right either.  A lot of churches do a boatload of work for the poor.  Oh well, I don't go very often.
Me

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