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Art Bell

Started by sillydog, April 07, 2008, 11:21:45 PM

Quote from: K_Dubb on June 18, 2016, 06:09:59 PM
Exactly.  We're the first humans in history to commit ourselves to a purely material existence.  Our ancestors spent enormous effort and vast resources trying to peer into the dark, while the modern man insists there is only light and what's for lunch.  It takes bolder, far more optimistic man than I to hail this as progress and turn his back on myth.

I think we are actually headed in the wrong direction. The fact the Kardashians are respected my a large amount of people, instant gratification society and the ME generation is cause for great concern.

So let me get this straight, the folks who've been so insistent for the past 50 years that the government stay out of our bedrooms are now insisting it needs to be in our bathrooms?  And wrap themselves in the flag for both arguments?

Are there any other rooms in our homes, offices, and communities that need new rules and surveillance, or do they come up with this stuff on the fly?

Quote from: nooryisawesome on June 18, 2016, 06:34:19 PM
I think we are actually headed in the wrong direction.

Careful, you'll be accused of being old fashioned and belonging in a different century

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 06:34:26 PM
So let me get this straight, the folks who've been so insistent for the past 50 years that the government stay out of our bedrooms are now insisting we need it in our bathrooms?  And wrap themselves in the flag for both arguments.

Are there any other rooms in our homes, offices, and communities that need new rules and surveillance, or do they come up with this stuff on the fly?

Start putting toilets in the bedrooms, I think that is the only logical solution.

Quote from: nooryisawesome on June 18, 2016, 06:37:21 PM
Start putting toilets in the bedrooms, I think that is the only logical solution.

Well yeah, but what kind of toilets, how many, what color and size?

Imconfused

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 06:34:26 PM
So let me get this straight, the folks who've been so insistent for the past 50 years that the government stay out of our bedrooms are now insisting it needs to be in our bathrooms?  And wrap themselves in the flag for both arguments?

Are there any other rooms in our homes, offices, and communities that need new rules and surveillance, or do they come up with this stuff on the fly?

Well,  bathrooms do.  I thought we went over this.   ;)

Value Of Pi

Quote from: K_Dubb on June 18, 2016, 06:09:59 PM
Exactly.  We're the first humans in history to commit ourselves to a purely material existence.  Our ancestors spent enormous effort and vast resources trying to peer into the dark, while the modern man insists there is only light and what's for lunch.  It takes bolder, far more optimistic man than I to hail this as progress and turn his back on myth.

On that note, I never much appreciated modern humans who believe that science is enough without spirituality or that the death of God (which has been routinely announced for the last 150 years) would be no loss to humanity. The capacity to believe in things beyond our personal boundaries, whether we find it in religion, on a paranormal radio show, or wherever, is vital for our health and sanity.

You look at all the unhappy, distressed people who have everything (or have enough) and wonder what they're missing. They're missing all the things they can't see, hear, taste and get their hands on. All that stuff that only exists in the darkness beyond their reach.

ItsOver

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 06:38:48 PM
Well yeah, but what kind of toilets, how many, what color and size?
Come on, P*B.  Of course, that will be up to Uncle Fed.  We may even need a new agency for it.  The Department of Motherland Crappers.

Value Of Pi

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 06:36:34 PM
Careful, you'll be accused of being old fashioned and belonging in a different century

Or maybe the modern humans he's talking about will be accused of belonging in the future. I'm thinking that maybe they are ahead of their time by a couple of hundred years. Fortunately, those of us who understand what he's talking about won't be around to see that world.

analog kid

Quote from: Value Of Pi on June 18, 2016, 06:49:41 PM
On that note, I never much appreciated modern humans who believe that science is enough without spirituality or that the death of God (which has been routinely announced for the last 150 years) would be no loss to humanity. The capacity to believe in things beyond our personal boundaries, whether we find it in religion, on a paranormal radio show, or wherever, is vital for our health and sanity.

You look at all the unhappy, distressed people who have everything (or have enough) and wonder what they're missing. They're missing all the things they can't see, hear, taste and get their hands on. All that stuff that only exists in the darkness beyond their reach.

I know it's fiction, but I prefer the future Gene Roddenberry envisioned - one where science provides peace and prosperity, without the need for superstition. I'd also note that, statistically speaking, humanity is more tolerant than ever before in human history, and crime rates have dropped steadily for fifty years (it's down 50% just since the 90s). Despite the margins of religious extremism, and what we're fed by the media, there has never been a more peaceful and prosperous time to be alive. At the same time, religiosity is at an all-time low, across the free world. I think it correlates at least somewhat.

albrecht

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 07:37:16 PM
I know it's fiction, but I prefer the future Gene Roddenberry envisioned - one where science provides peace and prosperity, without the need for superstition. I'd also note that, statistically speaking, humanity is more tolerant than ever before in human history, and crime rates have dropped steadily for fifty years (it's down 50% just since the 90s). Despite the margins of religious extremism, and what we're fed by the media, there has never been a more peaceful and prosperous time to be alive. At the same time, religiosity is at an all-time low, across the free world. I think it correlates at least somewhat.
I don't know. Violent crime and mass murders, maybe, over the whole population but financial, so-called "white collar" crime? LIBOR manipulation, front-running, the MBS and CDO associated frauds resulting in bailouts, Cartel and organized crime (drugs, human trafficking, counterfeiting, etc,) the UBS (and other) allegations and tax-fraud, money laundering, and shadow banking? Costs in the trillions. That is a lot of crime.

analog kid

Quote from: albrecht on June 18, 2016, 07:58:19 PM
I don't know. Violent crime and mass murders, maybe, over the whole population but financial, so-called "white collar" crime? LIBOR manipulation, front-running, the MBS and CDO associated frauds resulting in bailouts, Cartel and organized crime (drugs, human trafficking, counterfeiting, etc,) the UBS (and other) allegations and tax-fraud, money laundering, and shadow banking? Costs in the trillions. That is a lot of crime.

I should have said violent crime. But IMO some of that has risen because it's easier in the internet age.

Still, the point that the lack of spirituality leads to problems isn't borne out by the statistics. The world has lots of examples of how, the more secular a nation is, the better off it is, while the more religious they are, the more they descend into chaos.

K_Dubb

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 07:37:16 PM
I know it's fiction, but I prefer the future Gene Roddenberry envisioned - one where science provides peace and prosperity, without the need for superstition. I'd also note that, statistically speaking, humanity is more tolerant than ever before in human history, and crime rates have dropped steadily for fifty years (it's down 50% just since the 90s). Despite the margins of religious extremism, and what we're fed by the media, there has never been a more peaceful and prosperous time to be alive. At the same time, religiosity is at an all-time low, across the free world. I think it correlates at least somewhat.

Religion may be on the wane but mythology certainly isn't, as you so nicely demonstrate -- might as well be St. John's vision of the Holy City.  The only thing we've done differently is to shift most of it to a future setting so pesky archaeologists don't go trying to disprove it.

albrecht

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 09:06:53 PM
I should have said violent crime. But IMO some of that has risen because it's easier in the internet age.

Still, the point that the lack of spirituality leads to problems isn't borne out by the statistics. The world has lots of examples of how, the more secular a nation is, the better off it is, while the more religious they are, the more they descend into chaos.
I guess it depends. Some very low violent crime rate countries/societies are spiritual/religious and some countries were secular and elimination of religion was government policy became of the worst examples of atrocities (USSR, China, Cambodia, etc.) Overall I think violent crime is more related to age of population, economy, homogeneity vs diversity, and personal freedom versus more centralized command governments (though, arguably, there the crimes still exists but transferred from the individuals to the State in their commission!) As a side note, I also am very suspect of studies (even legit studies) because there is so much variance in the reporting and definitions of crime (different legal definitions) as well as issue like if never reported, consider only arrests or convictions, etc between countries and even States. And statistical manipulation and even possible agendas. And then in some countries there is corruption and different forms of "justice" (informal, as it were) so who knows if we can get real data. Very "religious" countries, like Bahrain, UAE, or Saudi Arabia can (at least formerly) claim very low crime rates but I would consider beheading people, not letting women drive, stonings etc crimes themselves.

analog kid

Quote from: K_Dubb on June 18, 2016, 09:11:57 PM
Religion may be on the wane but mythology certainly isn't, as you so nicely demonstrate -- might as well be St. John's vision of the Holy City.  The only thing we've done differently is to shift most of it to a future setting so pesky archaeologists don't go trying to disprove it.

Your avatar is strangely appropriate.

I don't think the mythology you're referring to is accepted as a reality like religion is though.

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 09:26:30 PM
Your avatar is strangely appropriate.

I don't think the mythology you're referring to is accepted as a reality like religion is though.

not until you show up for jury duty in a starfleet uniform.

Value Of Pi

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 09:06:53 PM
I should have said violent crime. But IMO some of that has risen because it's easier in the internet age.

Still, the point that the lack of spirituality leads to problems isn't borne out by the statistics. The world has lots of examples of how, the more secular a nation is, the better off it is, while the more religious they are, the more they descend into chaos.

To K_Dubb's point, secular indicates non-religious, not non-spiritual. We still need our spiritual fix no matter what. Even if it has to come from Hollywood sci-fi or fantasy. Secularism is mainly a first world trend anyway. As is the notion that people who are religious or otherwise believe in God must be a little wacky. That's pretty recent as well.

analog kid

Quote from: albrecht on June 18, 2016, 09:20:31 PM
I guess it depends. Some very low violent crime rate countries/societies are spiritual/religious and some countries were secular and elimination of religion was government policy became of the worst examples of atrocities (USSR, China, Cambodia, etc.) Overall I think violent crime is more related to age of population, economy, homogeneity vs diversity, and personal freedom versus more centralized command governments (though, arguably, there the crimes still exists but transferred from the individuals to the State in their commission!) As a side note, I also am very suspect of studies (even legit studies) because there is so much variance in the reporting and definitions of crime (different legal definitions) as well as issue like if never reported, consider only arrests or convictions, etc between countries and even States. And statistical manipulation and even possible agendas. And then in some countries there is corruption and different forms of "justice" (informal, as it were) so who knows if we can get real data. Very "religious" countries, like Bahrain, UAE, or Saudi Arabia can (at least formerly) claim very low crime rates but I would consider beheading people, not letting women drive, stonings etc crimes themselves.

Yeah, point taken. Again, relying on statistics though, the nations currently rated as the most peaceful and prosperous are also the most secular, like New Zealand and the Netherlands. I don't want to argue that religion is a problem, but it's the extremists. The mix of religion and government.

My Ambien has kicked in, and I'm hallucinating.

K_Dubb

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 09:26:30 PM
Your avatar is strangely appropriate.

I don't think the mythology you're referring to is accepted as a reality like religion is though.

I don't know.  I don't think those old Greeks went around making side-eyes at swans and bulls and eagles just in case they were Zeus in a rapey mood. 

Would a transgendering person be more inclined to leave the seat up or down?

albrecht

Quote from: analog kid on June 18, 2016, 09:36:31 PM
Yeah, point taken. Again, relying on statistics though, the nations currently rated as the most peaceful and prosperous are also the most secular, like New Zealand and the Netherlands. I don't want to argue that religion is a problem, but it's the extremists. The mix of religion and government.

My Ambien has kicked in, and I'm hallucinating.
Note when the demographics shift how the crime rate does in countries, like the Netherlands. Never lived or visited NZ so don't know the experience there. Or Sweden, as a popular example for sex crimes the past few years. I think age, gender, economic, and homogeneous vs diverse factors are more important than religion. Though clearly religion is important when there are two (or more but two is usually) conflicting ones (Catholic/Protestant, Muslim/Christian, Muslim/Jew, Muslim/Hindi, Muslim/Buddhist, etc), though again for other examples: Switzerland low violent crime rate and is divided linguistically, religiously, etc and though now more secular still has several languages and religious differences.

albrecht

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 09:52:06 PM
Would a transgendering person be more inclined to leave the seat up or down?
I think the urinal or seat question has been answered during the initial men vs women debate. Everyone must sit down for equality sake. Though I'm told to solve the bathroom line problem there have been some 'same gender' special urinals designed.

ge30542

Quote from: Paper*Boy on June 18, 2016, 06:34:26 PM
So let me get this straight, the folks who've been so insistent for the past 50 years that the government stay out of our bedrooms are now insisting it needs to be in our bathrooms?  And wrap themselves in the flag for both arguments?

Are there any other rooms in our homes, offices, and communities that need new rules and surveillance, or do they come up with this stuff on the fly?
Excellent post/thought.

dan7800

We have too many problems in this country to be worrying about the proper bathrooms people need to be using.


JesusJuice

Only Art can turn this thread back on course. All he has to do is come back and say something innocuous like "I really enjoyed myself on Bell Philes last week" and then his groupies will come out and say that they enjoyed hearing his voice again and then the thread will be good once again.

norland2424

Quote from: JesusJuice on June 18, 2016, 10:11:14 PM
Only Art can turn this thread back on course. All he has to do is come back and say something innocuous like "I really enjoyed myself on Bell Philes last week" and then his groupies will come out and say that they enjoyed hearing his voice again and then the thread will be good once again.

Arent you an Art bell booty boi?

Quote from: JesusJuice on June 18, 2016, 10:11:14 PM
Only Art can turn this thread back on course. All he has to do is come back and say something innocuous like "I really enjoyed myself on Bell Philes last week" and then his groupies will come out and say that they enjoyed hearing his voice again and then the thread will be good once again.

lol this thread was never good

ItsOver

Quote from: Evil Twin Of Zen on June 18, 2016, 09:28:21 PM
not until you show up for jury duty in a starfleet uniform.
I prefer showing up in my Klingon issue and answering any questions in Klingon.  Inclusion is so wonderful.

Quote from: sillydog on April 07, 2008, 11:21:45 PMhe presided over an orderly nut house

That's gotta be the best summarized description of the old Coast to Coast AM that I've ever heard.

analog kid

Quote from: ItsOver on June 18, 2016, 10:24:16 PM
I prefer showing up in my Klingon issue and answering any questions in Klingon.  Inclusion is so wonderful.

In your case, no makeup is needed.

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