Art Bell

[PB the Deplorable]

How is what working out for me? I said a few different thngs.

Finding ''candidates with their heads screwed on right and whose main agenda is solving problems and governing well'', and ''paying a lot of attention, this election in particular, because I see what's at stake''.

How many good candidates are there to choose from that fit the description?  How does paying a lot of attention to them help in the slightest?

Maybe I should have prefaced that by asking whether you think either Clinton or Trump is anything other than a complete bag of shit?  Or is there someone running for a lesser office who will have the influence to get the right things done, because, you know, of what's at stake?

[PB the Deplorable]

Doesn't ''paying a lot of attention'' at this stage mostly mean listening to what they have to say? 

Do you think what either of these two have to say during a campaign is of any value whatsoever?  They are hardly unknowns, saying what's on their minds and letting the chips fall where they may - we already know both are extremely unqualified, for different reasons.  We've known it about them for years.

[Value Of Pi]

Finding ''candidates with their heads screwed on right and whose main agenda is solving problems and governing well'', and ''paying a lot of attention, this election in particular, because I see what's at stake''.

How many good candidates are there to choose from that fit the description?  How does paying a lot of attention to them help in the slightest?

Maybe I should have prefaced that by asking whether you think either Clinton or Trump is anything other than a complete bag of shit?  Or is there someone running for a lesser office who will have the influence to get the right things done, because, you know, of what's at stake?

The choices for POTUS are very disappointing. As I've said a number of times on the subject of this election, I don't expect much progress in the next four years in any case. But I see the risks with Trump being much higher. That's my judgment and my vote will reflect that.

Would you like me to maybe rephrase that statement in an angrier tone of voice? I could do that but what would it accomplish other than to sound like a lot of other people?

[creepygreenlight]

I see the risks with Trump being much higher.

Voting the the candidate who is under a criminal probe from the FBI is certainly a good choice.

Thank you for opting for the continuation of total corruption in the US Government.

Sincerely,
Nobody.

[Value Of Pi]

Voting the the candidate who is under a criminal probe from the FBI is certainly a good choice.

Thank you for opting for the continuation of total corruption in the US Government.

Sincerely,
Nobody.

Listen, dimwit, there are no good choices. Feel free to thank me or blame me for anything you like. It won't change a thing.

[Robert]

The 17th Amendment stripped the state governments of their representatives in DC.  Senators were originally appointed by the state legislatures, and would block bills passed by the House that grew the federal government at the expense of state authority.  Checks and balances, separation of powers.

The Big Government folks in both parties needed that check to go away, and in 1913 the 17th was ratified.  Senators were no longer appointed by the state legislatures, and no longer represented the interests of the state governments.  They were now elected directly, same as House members.

Insignificant.  A movement was already sweeping the states to elect their US senators popularly -- which was allowed by the US Constitution -- and had the 17th amendment not been adopted, it would shortly have been universal practice anyway.  Same as the states have their presidential electors popularly elected, which the US Constitution allows but doesn't mandate.

[Lilith]

Some things are worth fighting for.  We need to go back to the fundamental principles of the Constitution and the Founders.  Instead, we are tearing them down, unconstitutionally, I might add.

Yep.

[Hollow Man]

But the court(s) or Court could simply overrule it. Actually they recently have said the 1st Amendment doesn't apply in their building as a nice bit of irony*. And getting a Article V Convention going would be a big undertaking (I know some have been trying) and would likely do more harm than good considering.
*https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/courts_law/protesters-have-no-free-speech-rights-on-supreme-courts-front-porch/2015/08/28/f79ae262-4d9e-11e5-bfb9-9736d04fc8e4_story.html

Haha. No shit. Not to mention the fact you have to treat them like royalty, standing and sitting when the fuck they tell you to, and demanding that you call them "Your Honor" lest they hold you in contempt and throw you in a cage. Hell, they could even ask you about your fucking bowel movements and there's not a damned thing you could do about it, LOL. When you boil it down, though, they're really just lawyers in dresses, or lawyers AND politicians in dresses, which means the judge essentially embodies some two of the most hated classes in America in their very being. They may serve a "vital role" and all that shit, but that doesn't mean they still aren't a bunch of assholes. 

[Tinfoil_Helm]

We only have two choices in the real World, I am at heart Libertarian but I am also a realist, one of these two will be it. Trump has to straighten his ass up and become Presidential or we are doomed.

Art

Art has about the same smarts picking his President as he does picking his radio replacement.

[Hollow Man]

According to you, the Congress has a whole lot of power that they not only are not using but don't even appear to recognize. They can simply get rid of all those pesky justices they don't like and tell the SCOTUS what cases they can and can't rule on, thereby having the power to make the laws and also effectively decide on how they're interpreted. Someone should tell them about all this.

The executive branch also sounds fairly powerless, since it can't do anything without money and Congress controls that. Except, as Ted Cruz and others have shown in recent years, shutting down the government or cutting off funding is ineffective and a lousy way to govern.

As for the SCOTUS, voters elect the presidents who nominate these justices and the senators who confirm them. So we and those two branches (executive and legislative) have some say about what kind of justices end up on the court. If the judiciary has taken on too much power, we already have the ability to change that.

All the same, I suggest telling your representatives about any power they have but are not, for some reason, using. They're always looking for that kind of help.

Well, actually, they do have alot of power they aren't using or don't even recognize. Where the fuck have you been? They're either total bitches for the President or too damn scared to go on the record. Those fuckers can't even be bothered to vote for a fucking "war resolution", which is just the passive, sniveling, unconstitutional substitute for the declaration of war; they don't even want to touch it. That's one of the most, if not THE most, important power Congress has- the power that utterly defines it as a force- and they stopped using it long ago; you wonder if they even know they got it, LOL. They'd much rather just let the President do his thing and bash it if it doesn't work. Pathetic.

During the Bush years they did nothing except everything King George wanted them to. They simply bowed down, like chumps.  Congress has a long track record of not standing up for itself and abdicating its Constitutional powers. It's nothing new. You'd think pride and a jealous regard for its own power, not to mention the simple, base egotistic love for power, would be enough to prevent that, but I guess people are even more slavish and sniveling than I thought. Heh. Gutless faggots...

[BelgianCarbonFibre]

The choices for POTUS are very disappointing. As I've said a number of times on the subject of this election, I don't expect much progress in the next four years in any case. But I see the risks with Trump being much higher. That's my judgment and my vote will reflect that.

Would you like me to maybe rephrase that statement in an angrier tone of voice? I could do that but what would it accomplish other than to sound like a lot of other people?

It's like you're stuck in the '90s and don't recognize it.

[Value Of Pi]

Well, actually, they do have alot of power they aren't using or don't even recognize. Where the fuck have you been? They're either total bitches for the President or too damn scared to go on the record. Those fuckers can't even be bothered to vote for a fucking "war resolution", which is just the passive, sniveling, unconstitutional substitute for the declaration of war; they don't even want to touch it. That's one of the most, if not THE most, important power Congress has- the power that utterly defines it as a force- and they stopped using it long ago; you wonder if they even know they got it, LOL. They'd much rather just let the President do his thing and bash it if it doesn't work. Pathetic.

During the Bush years they did nothing except everything King George wanted them to. They simply bowed down, like chumps.  Congress has a long track record of not standing up for itself and abdicating its Constitutional powers. It's nothing new. You'd think pride and a jealous regard for its own power, not to mention the simple, base egotistic love for power, would be enough to prevent that, but I guess people are even more slavish and sniveling than I thought. Heh. Gutless faggots...

I was talking only about the power of Congress where the Supreme Court is concerned. I wasn't talking generally. It doesn't look like you read past my first line. But, of course, Congress is a big part of the problem we have with the way government works. You won't find many arguments there.

[Value Of Pi]

It's like you're stuck in the '90s and don't recognize it.

Not sure what you mean, but now that you mention it, I think the whole country has been stagnating, pretty much on hold, for about 15 years. Economically and politically, anyway (socially has been another story). Starting with the big dot com bust and 9/11. Made worse by the Great Recession.

I'm not seeing a way out of that, based on the political leadership we'll have (and won't have) over the next four years. I wish I could be more optimistic about this on the eve of a presidential election, but I don't see much reason to be.

[Value Of Pi]

Doesn't ''paying a lot of attention'' at this stage mostly mean listening to what they have to say? 

Do you think what either of these two have to say during a campaign is of any value whatsoever?  They are hardly unknowns, saying what's on their minds and letting the chips fall where they may - we already know both are extremely unqualified, for different reasons.  We've known it about them for years.

Sorry, missed this before. No, it doesn't mostly mean listening to them, although that's part of it. Mostly, it means trying to figure out what they would actually do and what the ramifications of that would be.

[JesusJuice]

What a shitty thread.

[21st Century Man]

I respect your point of view but as I indicated, I'm not an ideologue. I look at the policy first and decide whether it would be good or bad for the country. If it happens to involve a constitutional issue that a court rules on, I make a judgment on the strength of the opposing arguments.

I might wind up in the conservative camp or the progressive camp or some other camp on a particular issue, which is fine. I'm not a card-carrying member of any party.

So you are willing to tear down the Constitution on some issues.  Glad we cleared that up.

[Value Of Pi]

So you are willing to tear down the Constitution on some issues.  Glad we cleared that up.

I didn't say that at all, now did I? What I indicated is that not every political decision, not every policy, becomes a constitutional issue. Most don't. That's because the Constitution itself allows for a certain amount of latitude in how the government operates.

Was the decision to land in Normandy on D-Day instead of Pas de Calais constitutional, for example? Nobody in their right mind would ever seriously ask that, because the government had clear, undeniable authority to make that decision. The Constitution is an extremely critical and important document in this country. This doesn't mean that everything that matters in the world directly concerns the Constitution.

[21st Century Man]

I didn't say that at all, now did I? What I indicated is that not every political decision, not every policy, becomes a constitutional issue. Most don't. That's because the Constitution itself allows for a certain amount of latitude in how the government operates.

Was the decision to land in Normandy on D-Day instead of Pas de Calais constitutional, for example? Nobody in their right mind would ever seriously ask that, because the government had clear, undeniable authority to make that decision. The Constitution is an extremely critical and important document in this country. This doesn't mean that everything that matters in the world directly concerns the Constitution.

OK. I'm sorry.  I misinterpreted what you were saying.  You are right.

[Hollow Man]

I was talking only about the power of Congress where the Supreme Court is concerned. I wasn't talking generally. It doesn't look like you read past my first line. But, of course, Congress is a big part of the problem we have with the way government works. You won't find many arguments there.

No, I read past it. It's just the one that jumped out at me. I thought you did mean that generally overall, not just with the Courts. My bad, LOL. I have encountered that exact mentality, though. Some of the people I've talked to about this kinda thing looked at me like I was some violent radical or I called their daughter a whore or something. Basically the "My President, right or wrong" types. Doesn't matter if they're left or right, you got different flavors. It's really just pretty basic shit that anybody should get regardless of their politics any which way. 

[Value Of Pi]

Okay guys, no problemo. I vote for everybody to hit the sack.

[Hollow Man]

folks
the MEETING is Cancelled

i refuse to explain why

bobo

Fuck you AND the horse you rode in on. No, wait a minute... 

[SciFiAuthor]

folks
the MEETING is Cancelled

i refuse to explain why

bobo

Come up with something new. Your schtick is worn out and stupid at this point. Quit with the overkill. Please.

[norland2424]

Come up with something new. Your schtick is worn out and stupid at this point. Quit with the overkill. Please.

its always been stupid lol

[Hollow Man]

Okay guys, no problemo. I vote for everybody to hit the sack.

Nah, I got some bodies I gotta bury. Can't let 'em rot any longer; it's quite the stench. But I've said too much already. You have a good night, now...

[Hollow Man]

Art has about the same smarts picking his President as he does picking his radio replacement.

Where's Bugs when you need him...

[MV/Liberace!]

OK. I'm sorry.  I misinterpreted what you were saying.  You are right.

[Hollow Man]

What the fuck is that thing in your avatar, man? She's fucking hideous, LOL.

[Scorch]

Thanks Art.  I just realized I listened to Snoory and Edger Mitchell and George was tolerable.  Never saw this coming.  Wow.  Wish things were different.

[ItsOver]

What the fuck is that thing in your avatar, man? She's fucking hideous, LOL.

Bobo's next adventure.

[Royal_Tenenbaum]

What the fuck is that thing in your avatar, man? She's fucking hideous, LOL.

Donatella Versace.