School shooting Miami area 20180214

[Jojo]

Walmart and local libraries protect their inventory better than schools protect students.  Other than maybe one security officer, there is no protection.  No cameras (as far as I know), no door detectors, no security team, and most of the time, no realistic plan for disaster response in the various buildings.  Anyone could slaughter everyone at any time.  Yet, if someone walks out of Walmart with an unauthorized $4 product, alarms go off, a guard challenges the person, and a lot of people stare.

It's not reasonable to expect first responders to enter Schools of Slaughter, which have no security.  Everyone knows that mass school shootings have gone on for decades, yet schools fail to implement protective measures.  If the school and community don't care enough about the children to protect them, then why should first responders give their lives over the issue!

There is no excuse for not training staff and requiring them to wear guns.  Nowadays, weapons can be very discreet.  There is also no excuse for not having all students go through door detectors similar to the ones in every retail store they visit when they are out of school.  As a society, we are criminally negligent, here.

We have tossed our children to the wolves and expect them to go with a smile.  We have disrespected school staff and first responders by not taking reasonable precautions.

Also, mass shootings don't happen much at airports.  I guess suitcases are more important than school children. 

[Epaphroditus]

My bible believing neighbor actually told me that children have no value , he votes against every public school funding referendum but spends money chasing ghosts on the weekends .

[Uncle Duke]

Walmart and local libraries protect their inventory better than schools protect students.  Other than maybe one security officer, there is no protection.  No cameras (as far as I know), no door detectors, no security team, and most of the time, no realistic plan for disaster response in the various buildings.  Anyone could slaughter everyone at any time.  Yet, if someone walks out of Walmart with an unauthorized $4 product, alarms go off, a guard challenges the person, and a lot of people stare.

It's not reasonable to expect first responders to enter Schools of Slaughter, which have no security.  Everyone knows that mass school shootings have gone on for decades, yet schools fail to implement protective measures.  If the school and community don't care enough about the children to protect them, then why should first responders give their lives over the issue!

There is no excuse for not training staff and requiring them to wear guns.  Nowadays, weapons can be very discreet.  There is also no excuse for not having all students go through door detectors similar to the ones in every retail store they visit when they are out of school.  As a society, we are criminally negligent, here.

We have tossed our children to the wolves and expect them to go with a smile.  We have disrespected school staff and first responders by not taking reasonable precautions.

Also, mass shootings don't happen much at airports.  I guess suitcases are more important than school children.

I doubt anyone would support requiring school staff to be armed.  The push back from groups like NEA would overwhelming.  On the other hand, any staff member who agrees to take/pass a rigorous training course and wants to be armed at school should be allowed to do so. Here in Ohio such a course already exists, and includes not only advanced firearms training, but security planning, crisis management, and tactical medical training as well.  I took their medical course, it was taught by combat medics and was very hands on.

https://fastersaveslives.org/

[albrecht]

My bible believing neighbor actually told me that children have no value , he votes against every public school funding referendum but spends money chasing ghosts on the weekends .

Perhaps a C2C guest? Or, at least, a caller? He sounds like he needs a national platform to rant and explain his political views and paranormal experiences!

[Yorkshire pud]

Walmart and local libraries protect their inventory better than schools protect students.  Other than maybe one security officer, there is no protection.  No cameras (as far as I know), no door detectors, no security team, and most of the time, no realistic plan for disaster response in the various buildings.  Anyone could slaughter everyone at any time.  Yet, if someone walks out of Walmart with an unauthorized $4 product, alarms go off, a guard challenges the person, and a lot of people stare.

It's not reasonable to expect first responders to enter Schools of Slaughter, which have no security.  Everyone knows that mass school shootings have gone on for decades, yet schools fail to implement protective measures.  If the school and community don't care enough about the children to protect them, then why should first responders give their lives over the issue!

There is no excuse for not training staff and requiring them to wear guns.  Nowadays, weapons can be very discreet.  There is also no excuse for not having all students go through door detectors similar to the ones in every retail store they visit when they are out of school.  As a society, we are criminally negligent, here.

We have tossed our children to the wolves and expect them to go with a smile.  We have disrespected school staff and first responders by not taking reasonable precautions.

Also, mass shootings don't happen much at airports.  I guess suitcases are more important than school children.

Bold  There is a very good reason why not. Well, more than one. A)Teachers are teachers and not armed guards too. B) The likelihood of an armed teacher making a very bad situation even worse because they're armed is high. The reasons are simple, as in the Parkside massacre, the assailant simple got rid of the weapon and blended into the panicking crowd. So who does the teacher (who is teaching at the time) shoot? And what do you think the chances of panicking innocent kids and other staff being caught in the crossfire is, apart from exponentially high?

Trained SF personnel train with live ammunition in real world scenarios everyday unless they're on operations. They go through more ammunition in a week than the average soldier will ever use in their career. And they still make mistakes occasionally. What do you envisage happening with a teacher who may know the assailant? They could take a second or two to realise what is going on, and then shoot anything that moves. The real way to tackle it is thoughts and prayers.



I guess suitcases are more important than school children

That's a fairly facile and completely erroneous assessment of airport security. I take it you haven't been in one lately?

[Uncle Duke]

Bold  There is a very good reason why not. Well, more than one. A)Teachers are teachers and not armed guards too. B) The likelihood of an armed teacher making a very bad situation even worse because they're armed is high. The reasons are simple, as in the Parkside massacre, the assailant simple got rid of the weapon and blended into the panicking crowd. So who does the teacher (who is teaching at the time) shoot? And what do you think the chances of panicking innocent kids and other staff being caught in the crossfire is, apart from exponentially high?

Trained SF personnel train with live ammunition in real world scenarios everyday unless they're on operations. They go through more ammunition in a week than the average soldier will ever use in their career. And they still make mistakes occasionally. What do you envisage happening with a teacher who may know the assailant? They could take a second or two to realise what is going on, and then shoot anything that moves. The real way to tackle it is thoughts and prayers.

You make many valid points, that's why any armed teachers/staff who volunteer must be carefully screened/vetted and highly/recurrently trained.  I've taken eight different tactical shooting courses, both pistol and carbine/SBR, and learning when NOT to shot is stressed as much, if not more so, than shooting.

I've shot with school staff who've completed the course I referenced before, most are at least as good as the local police officers who've I shared ranges with for years.  Having come from a family of teachers (three generations) and having a son-in-law who is a teacher, my guess is less than one in ten teachers would have the temperament and/or desire to take, let alone complete the FASTER training in place here.  And  I agree with you on that point, I don't want that 90+% carrying or even owing a gun, period. 

[albrecht]

You make many valid points, that's why any armed teachers/staff who volunteer must be carefully screened/vetted and highly/recurrently trained.  I've taken eight different tactical shooting courses, both pistol and carbine/SBR, and learning when NOT to shot is stressed as much, if not more so, than shooting.

I've shot with school staff who've completed the course I referenced before, most are at least as good as the local police officers who've I shared ranges with for years.  Having come from a family of teachers (three generations) and having a son-in-law who is a teacher, my guess is less than one in ten teachers would have the temperament and/or desire to take, let alone complete the FASTER training in place here.  And  I agree with you on that point, I don't want that 90+% carrying or even owing a gun, period.

Training even just basic is the key. And much available for free. And, like all, changes, so don't rely on old ideas/training (snake stuff or CPR comes to mind.) As have responses to bad events. A oood thing also is lots of new training in LEO on mental issues. And figuring how negotiation/escalation/etc than the old "call it in' and wait or the go in guns a-blazing. The media is bad, celebrating these incidents and also not folks reporting, following up on the nihilism and chaos. And trying to understand, and help, the perps, whether kids, vets, "disgruntle employee" etc.

[Yorkshire pud]

Training even just basic is the key. And much available for free. And, like all, changes, so don't rely on old ideas/training (snake stuff or CPR comes to mind.) As have responses to bad events. A oood thing also is lots of new training in LEO on mental issues. And figuring how negotiation/escalation/etc than the old "call it in' and wait or the go in guns a-blazing. The media is bad, celebrating these incidents and also not folks reporting, following up on the nihilism and chaos. And trying to understand, and help, the perps, whether kids, vets, "disgruntle employee" etc.

A few months ago, apparently (I didn't witness it so I don't know the details) an employee at my firm was sacked. The parting comments were clearly enough to rattle the manager doing the deed for the instruction to go round to shut all outside doors, including the three roller doors used in the warehouses we have.  Later that day when we left to go home, there were two private security guards walking the site.

Three days later our beloved safety officer based over in Fresno gave us all (in shifts) a video conference seminar and pp presentation on 'what to do when an armed assailant pays a visit' (And not bringing cookies and good cheer presumably). It was quite comprehensive and she went through various scenarios (We got the impression she'd had this planned some time and it was coincidental with the timing) involving various shit that might get real.

The upshot (No punn intended) was that if we could, hide and/or get out asap, put phones on silent and don't talk to the feds when they turn up (Not sure about the reasoning with that last bit)...However because like the majority of buildings in Sac, ours is wooden framed and boarded with more wood. Now call me cynical, but I'm fairly sure anything useful to get through a body will make short work of plywood walls. Anyone with anything semi automatic and above .22 could chew up a wall knowing he'd connect with a person on the other side (However sales might be sacrificial). Now if he used a rope or a sword (Or even a sword in each hand), we'd stand more of a chance, but bullets we're not really going to escape.

[albrecht]

A few months ago, apparently (I didn't witness it so I don't know the details) an employee at my firm was sacked. The parting comments were clearly enough to rattle the manager doing the deed for the instruction to go round to shut all outside doors, including the three roller doors used in the warehouses we have.  Later that day when we left to go home, there were two private security guards walking the site.

Three days later our beloved safety officer based over in Fresno gave us all (in shifts) a video conference seminar and pp presentation on 'what to do when an armed assailant pays a visit' (And not bringing cookies and good cheer presumably). It was quite comprehensive and she went through various scenarios (We got the impression she'd had this planned some time and it was coincidental with the timing) involving various shit that might get real.

The upshot (No punn intended) was that if we could, hide and/or get out asap, put phones on silent and don't talk to the feds when they turn up (Not sure about the reasoning with that last bit)...However because like the majority of buildings in Sac, ours is wooden framed and boarded with more wood. Now call me cynical, but I'm fairly sure anything useful to get through a body will make short work of plywood walls. Anyone with anything semi automatic and above .22 could chew up a wall knowing he'd connect with a person on the other side (However sales might be sacrificial). Now if he used a rope or a sword (Or even a sword in each hand), we'd stand more of a chance, but bullets we're not really going to escape.

Funny, but not haha.

1) our legislators have now made brass knuckles and various Orientalaccoutrement legal to carry and possession in public (following an earlier odd law change about swords, although, arguably, this was to help illegals and carrying of machetes for garden, ranch work or MS-13 work.)

2)  a friend at a State office told me he "was worried" but "couldn't do anything" due to rules, labor, etc but some guy about to retire but sorta boxed into a position kept sending "anonymous" semi-threats in the agency's "suggestion box." A weird deal but due to rules and, technicalcly/legally the "box" they can't act on them. But he did retire, with pension, and, so far no problems. But some tense months. And crazy, apparently, with lots of stress and ways to make him not go public, be in meetings, etc. Govt world is strange due to labor rules- even in Texas.

[Uncle Duke]

A few months ago, apparently (I didn't witness it so I don't know the details) an employee at my firm was sacked. The parting comments were clearly enough to rattle the manager doing the deed for the instruction to go round to shut all outside doors, including the three roller doors used in the warehouses we have.  Later that day when we left to go home, there were two private security guards walking the site.

Three days later our beloved safety officer based over in Fresno gave us all (in shifts) a video conference seminar and pp presentation on 'what to do when an armed assailant pays a visit' (And not bringing cookies and good cheer presumably). It was quite comprehensive and she went through various scenarios (We got the impression she'd had this planned some time and it was coincidental with the timing) involving various shit that might get real.

The upshot (No punn intended) was that if we could, hide and/or get out asap, put phones on silent and don't talk to the feds when they turn up (Not sure about the reasoning with that last bit)...However because like the majority of buildings in Sac, ours is wooden framed and boarded with more wood. Now call me cynical, but I'm fairly sure anything useful to get through a body will make short work of plywood walls. Anyone with anything semi automatic and above .22 could chew up a wall knowing he'd connect with a person on the other side (However sales might be sacrificial). Now if he used a rope or a sword (Or even a sword in each hand), we'd stand more of a chance, but bullets we're not really going to escape.

We used to have no notice "shelter in place" drills, same mindset you described.  A young 1LT who worked for me was the unit security stuckee ("other duties as assigned"), he always looked unamused when I would refer to these exercises as "cowering in place."   The lead tech data loggie on the program, a former SEAL, sat two cubicles down from my office.  In the event of a real world event, I was sticking with him.

[albrecht]

We used to have no notice "shelter in place" drills, same mindset you described.  A young 1LT who worked for me was the unit security stuckee ("other duties as assigned"), he always looked unamused when I would refer to these exercises as "cowering in place."   The lead tech data loggie on the program, a former SEAL, sat two cubicles down from my office.  In the event of a real world event, I was sticking with him.

Oddly Sixteen had a good video she posted that showed, I'm not sure of the protocol, how herd mentality and social judgements works, but, I think, generally, a valid thing. People put into a room in which evidence of a fire happens and, alone, they either investigate and leave. BUT put in a room with actors who are told to ignore signs, smoke, alarm? Most people stay so long that, if real, would die. There are other interesting ones- like notice. Person dealing with a mundane issue at a desk, for example, can "switch" and many people won't notice and the whole basketball ape deal vis-a-via signal and noise.

[Jojo]

Bold  There is a very good reason why not. Well, more than one. A)Teachers are teachers and not armed guards too. B) The likelihood of an armed teacher making a very bad situation even worse because they're armed is high. The reasons are simple, as in the Parkside massacre, the assailant simple got rid of the weapon and blended into the panicking crowd. So who does the teacher (who is teaching at the time) shoot? And what do you think the chances of panicking innocent kids and other staff being caught in the crossfire is, apart from exponentially high?

Trained SF personnel train with live ammunition in real world scenarios everyday unless they're on operations. They go through more ammunition in a week than the average soldier will ever use in their career. And they still make mistakes occasionally. What do you envisage happening with a teacher who may know the assailant? They could take a second or two to realise what is going on, and then shoot anything that moves. The real way to tackle it is thoughts and prayers.



I guess suitcases are more important than school children

That's a fairly facile and completely erroneous assessment of airport security. I take it you haven't been in one lately?

Yorkster, the answer to the first scenario is:. Don't shoot an unarmed assailant, and expell him using the cameras to identify him.  I guess I took it for granted (silly me,) that passing tactical training would become part of the Master's in Education.  Well, maybe if you don't like that, then the National Guard needs to go local, local guards for municipalities and counties.  Just my opinion.

Well, we hear about school shootings all the time.  But I don't remember hearing about any airport shooting.  We protect our businessmen.  Maybe businessmen need to rally, "Businessmen Beat Bullets from Brats" and come up with  with a plan for stopping school slaughters.  I mean, the fact that these school slaughters go on, and on, and on, has gotten ridiculous.  If this was happening in homes or businesses, it would not be tolerated.

[Jojo]

We used to have no notice "shelter in place" drills, same mindset you described.  A young 1LT who worked for me was the unit security stuckee ("other duties as assigned"), he always looked unamused when I would refer to these exercises as "cowering in place."   The lead tech data loggie on the program, a former SEAL, sat two cubicles down from my office.  In the event of a real world event, I was sticking with him.

I would probably, too.  Yes, I agree, when I first heard "shelter in place," I thought it was for weinies.  However, schools could do more to make sure bulletproof partitions can be remotely lowered to halve damages (students don't need to know it's bulletproof).  And to make sure multiple staff are on duty with it's remote activation.  Just an idea.  Same with lights.  Shooter's not gonna get too many endophins in the dark.  Large common areas could be designed to be darkened fast, wirelessly.  Or things as simple as bulletproofing doors, and giving every room a lock.  Evaluating whether it's really necessary to have a huge cafeteria, or if staggered lunches and end times could save lives.  These r just brainstorm ideas - someone w tactical exp could come up w much more.

But I really think gun detectors and trained, armed personnel are best.  That's kind of what Walmart does, and they are thriving.  Every cash truck is armored; yet fruit if the womb is left unprotected.

[Jojo]

Oddly Sixteen had a good video she posted that showed, I'm not sure of the protocol, how herd mentality and social judgements works, but, I think, generally, a valid thing. People put into a room in which evidence of a fire happens and, alone, they either investigate and leave. BUT put in a room with actors who are told to ignore signs, smoke, alarm? Most people stay so long that, if real, would die. There are other interesting ones- like notice. Person dealing with a mundane issue at a desk, for example, can "switch" and many people won't notice and the whole basketball ape deal vis-a-via signal and noise.

One time be we smelled electrical smoke at a call center where I worked 5 years ago, with mostly young people.  It was ten minutes to shift end time.  There was no punch clock - and no mgr there, just a lead.  I left, but stated on the property.  Once outside, I saw another  person over forty had evacuated too, a man.  No one else did, 48 dough brains kept working in a room w windows that did not open.  The Fire Dept found a fire on another floor.  But before they arrived, I went back in to get the lead.  She wouldn't come; it was a very stressful second-by-second job and she would not sacrifice her work, even tho she was trembling and admitted being afraid.  She was Asian.  Unbelievable.  All for minimum wage w no benefits!  Anyhow, at least it had a happy ending.  No one got in trouble.  MGMT never even acknowledged the incident.  Trashy.

[Jojo]

Funny, but not haha.

1) our legislators have now made brass knuckles and various Orientalaccoutrement legal to carry and possession in public (following an earlier odd law change about swords, although, arguably, this was to help illegals and carrying of machetes for garden, ranch work or MS-13 work.)

2)  a friend at a State office told me he "was worried" but "couldn't do anything" due to rules, labor, etc but some guy about to retire but sorta boxed into a position kept sending "anonymous" semi-threats in the agency's "suggestion box." A weird deal but due to rules and, technicalcly/legally the "box" they can't act on them. But he did retire, with pension, and, so far no problems. But some tense months. And crazy, apparently, with lots of stress and ways to make him not go public, be in meetings, etc. Govt world is strange due to labor rules- even in Texas.

The box was going abused.  Time for camera.

At my career company, a guy said told me was going to shoot co-workers up.  He and his lead also came to work bruised from fighting each other in domestic violence, or made it look like it.  I reported his threat anonymously thru the ethics hotline, but I refused to identify his name because if I did, he wd know I ratted him out.  I expected the company to do employee satisfaction stuff, locate resentful employees and fix issues.  Install gun detectors. Maybe I expected too much.  They did offer free massages, though. A year later, he took a buyout.  Shortly after that, I saw him trying to shop lift from an auto parts store.  Then I saw him  in orange, doing what looked like community service.  It had been a tense year.  He had claimed he would spare me, but in the heat of the moment, or if he knew I ratted on him, his promise might have gone awry.   I'm glad it all ended well.

[Jojo]

A few months ago, apparently (I didn't witness it so I don't know the details) an employee at my firm was sacked. The parting comments were clearly enough to rattle the manager doing the deed for the instruction to go round to shut all outside doors, including the three roller doors used in the warehouses we have.  Later that day when we left to go home, there were two private security guards walking the site.

Three days later our beloved safety officer based over in Fresno gave us all (in shifts) a video conference seminar and pp presentation on 'what to do when an armed assailant pays a visit' (And not bringing cookies and good cheer presumably). It was quite comprehensive and she went through various scenarios (We got the impression she'd had this planned some time and it was coincidental with the timing) involving various shit that might get real.

The upshot (No punn intended) was that if we could, hide and/or get out asap, put phones on silent and don't talk to the feds when they turn up (Not sure about the reasoning with that last bit)...However because like the majority of buildings in Sac, ours is wooden framed and boarded with more wood. Now call me cynical, but I'm fairly sure anything useful to get through a body will make short work of plywood walls. Anyone with anything semi automatic and above .22 could chew up a wall knowing he'd connect with a person on the other side (However sales might be sacrificial). Now if he used a rope or a sword (Or even a sword in each hand), we'd stand more of a chance, but bullets we're not really going to escape.

Scary!  Esp since some people come back later.  Tough situation, but smart abt cell phones, I had never that abt that.

[Jojo]

My bible believing neighbor actually told me that children have no value , he votes against every public school funding referendum but spends money chasing ghosts on the weekends .

I've never liked property tax.  At the time of the sale, well, if course.  Developers could chip in more.  Are schools ran efficiently?  Well, anyhow.  He probably had a bad childhood.  Maybe property tax isn't so bad year after year if you aren't mortgage poor. The initial years w mortgage insurance (should be illegal!) are higher.

[Jojo]

Yes, that is curious because according to the brief stuff I've read he had, wisely on his behalf*, refused to testify or give statements. He has talked to a few news outlets but that is not under oath or in some kind of official process- so even if he lied in those rare interviews I don't see perjury. Arguably also a "misperception of facts" can get a person out of a perjury even when under oath,

In general I give some deference to police, or anyone, involved in a chaotic situation like this but it would appear that he acted badly and could've lessened the carnage had he engaged, especially since, apparently, he advised other officers not to do so.  And his job specifically was to protect the school. He wasn't a bystander or even a local cop who happened upon the situation.

* many police are well aware of the danger or talking to any police, in a hearing, in court, etc.  Many ways that even a totally honest, innocent person can get into trouble.

ps: It is not a good time to have a name like Scot (or Scott) Peterson....

I wonder why he told a team not to go in.  Maybe the dept just sent a duo?

Okay well, I'm having a long nite.  Hope I didn't post too much below.  It happens...

[Uncle Duke]

Yorkster, the answer to the first scenario is:. Don't shoot an unarmed assailant, and expell him using the cameras to identify him.  I guess I took it for granted (silly me,) that passing tactical training would become part of the Master's in Education.  Well, maybe if you don't like that, then the National Guard needs to go local, local guards for municipalities and counties.  Just my opinion.

Well, we hear about school shootings all the time.  But I don't remember hearing about any airport shooting.  We protect our businessmen.  Maybe businessmen need to rally, "Businessmen Beat Bullets from Brats" and come up with  with a plan for stopping school slaughters.  I mean, the fact that these school slaughters go on, and on, and on, has gotten ridiculous.  If this was happening in homes or businesses, it would not be tolerated.

How much experience do you have with firearms?

[ItsOver]

How much experience do you have with firearms?

Imagine the YouTube "star" as an armed teacher.

[Uncle Duke]

But I really think gun detectors and trained, armed personnel are best.  That's kind of what Walmart does, and they are thriving.  Every cash truck is armored; yet fruit if the womb is left unprotected.

Walmart does neither of those.  There are no metal detectors at Walmart, and to my knowledge none of the stores are posted.  I know for a fact Walmart does not employ armed security, the brother of one of my best friends was working in the Walmart in Beavercreek (Oh) when the shooting occurred there in 2014. 

[Yorkshire pud]

Well, we hear about school shootings all the time.  But I don't remember hearing about any airport shooting.  We protect our businessmen.  Maybe businessmen need to rally, "Businessmen Beat Bullets from Brats" and come up with  with a plan for stopping school slaughters. 

However, schools could do more to make sure bulletproof partitions can be remotely lowered to halve damages (students don't need to know it's bulletproof).  And to make sure multiple staff are on duty with it's remote activation.  Just an idea.  Same with lights.  Shooter's not gonna get too many endophins in the dark.  Large common areas could be designed to be darkened fast, wirelessly.  Or things as simple as bulletproofing doors, and giving every room a lock.  Evaluating whether it's really necessary to have a huge cafeteria, or if staggered lunches and end times could save lives.  These r just brainstorm ideas - someone w tactical exp could come up w much more.

It all comes down to money, the politics and motivation. Airports cannot afford to be closed down for very long. The major ones (and increasingly the not so major ones) employ more and more sophisticated security measures (most of which is invisible to the traveller and indeed most of the staff who work there) to prevent and/deal with a threat, all of which costs money, lots of it.

      No-one other than an idiot complains about the big picture even if they do about the tedium of all the checks and waiting because if you're on the plane taking you somewhere, you don't want to be sharing a metal tube six miles up with a hijacker. Call it selfishness, but that does play a part. Almost all commercial airports have armed police/guards who are intensely trained to identify, isolate and if necessary eliminate a threat-and they will, make no mistake. The last option though is the last resort because of the inherent risks of catching bystanders.

When it comes to schools it's a different kettle of fish. They're strapped for cash for teaching the kids, where are they going to find the money to implement the measures that you outline? And if they could, have you factored in the other costs of possibly having to rebuild certain/many sections of the internal structure to accommodate such as

bulletproof partitions can be remotely lowered to halve damages

. Such things aren't cheap and how and where would you put them?

The politics play too because in certain states it's still legal for an abusive spouse to carry a firearm (Because of his 'rights') so how do you intend to prevent someone who is 'law abiding' going rogue and entering school grounds with a concealed firearm? They might even be on friendly terms with the staff, or anyone who is employed to guard the school. Psychopaths are frequently intelligent and know how to manipulate and use others for their own gains using a smile, a joke, even a gesture of kindness. But by the time they get to where they're going and have a target friendly environment it's too late and they're the fox in the hen house.

One answer is attitude. If and when the tipping point is reached and enough people say 'enough' then and only then will anything be done. Until that time, the only empty gesture that is offered, is thoughts and prayers. I get the feeling though that wouldn't be enough for a parent who gets told by the local police their own child isn't coming home from school alive. Studies have shown that kids who have had to endure a shooting are traumatised long after the event, recently an ex student of Columbine took his own life, he was in his thirties. In the USA, kids from an age far too young to understand are trained to go through the procedure of a 'lock down' just in case. What sort of anxiety must that be for them, or do they get inured to it ?I cannot imagine it if I'd done the same at that age.
Is it any wonder that some kids grow up nervous wrecks with anxiety issues and mental illnesses before they're twenty? 

[Jojo]

It all comes down to money, the politics and motivation. Airports cannot afford to be closed down for very long. The major ones (and increasingly the not so major ones) employ more and more sophisticated security measures (most of which is invisible to the traveller and indeed most of the staff who work there) to prevent and/deal with a threat, all of which costs money, lots of it.

      No-one other than an idiot complains about the big picture even if they do about the tedium of all the checks and waiting because if you're on the plane taking you somewhere, you don't want to be sharing a metal tube six miles up with a hijacker. Call it selfishness, but that does play a part. Almost all commercial airports have armed police/guards who are intensely trained to identify, isolate and if necessary eliminate a threat-and they will, make no mistake. The last option though is the last resort because of the inherent risks of catching bystanders.

When it comes to schools it's a different kettle of fish. They're strapped for cash for teaching the kids, where are they going to find the money to implement the measures that you outline? And if they could, have you factored in the other costs of possibly having to rebuild certain/many sections of the internal structure to accommodate such as . Such things aren't cheap and how and where would you put them?

The politics play too because in certain states it's still legal for an abusive spouse to carry a firearm (Because of his 'rights') so how do you intend to prevent someone who is 'law abiding' going rogue and entering school grounds with a concealed firearm? They might even be on friendly terms with the staff, or anyone who is employed to guard the school. Psychopaths are frequently intelligent and know how to manipulate and use others for their own gains using a smile, a joke, even a gesture of kindness. But by the time they get to where they're going and have a target friendly environment it's too late and they're the fox in the hen house.

One answer is attitude. If and when the tipping point is reached and enough people say 'enough' then and only then will anything be done. Until that time, the only empty gesture that is offered, is thoughts and prayers. I get the feeling though that wouldn't be enough for a parent who gets told by the local police their own child isn't coming home from school alive. Studies have shown that kids who have had to endure a shooting are traumatized long after the event, recently an ex student of Columbine took his own life, he was in his thirties. In the USA, kids from an age far too young to understand are trained to go through the procedure of a 'lock down' just in case. What sort of anxiety must that be for them, or do they get inured to it ?I cannot imagine it if I'd done the same at that age.
Is it any wonder that some kids grow up nervous wrecks with anxiety issues and mental illnesses before they're twenty?

No, some don't get inured to the anxiety.  Lots of kids dread being sitting ducks and develop hyper-vigilance which impedes learning.  We've asked too much of students. 

I get philanthropy would be the answer for hardware installations and some initiatives.  It was great that Taylor Swift donated $50,000 for the Seattle Symphony, but when do we ever hear about the rich donating to grade schools, lol.

You know who should do it?  Athletes.  Athletes make boat loads of money & you don't see them building Carnegie Hall with it, do you?  Maybe when they aren't too busy buying fiances, they could stand up for the next generations of this county & put some investment into securing physical safety into grade school education.

As far as how to deal with a student or school visitor carrying a concealed weapon, well, detectors at doors would help.  And really, if they get out of hand, just shoot them to wound and then send them for some cruel punishment before their final sentence.  We have become weak.  Every reputable store has little rooms where security personnel sit, with cameras on all aspects of the store.  Few people notice or care.  But, businesses work very hard at protecting merchandise.  Contingent on funding, I don't see any reason why schools can't have the same professional security rooms.

For a long time, I have wanted us to have compulsory law enforcement service.  What better way than to involve students in their own security projects?  Over the years, the Us versus Them mentality about police has grown to absurd proportions.  So many people just do bad things simply to upset law enforcement.  But, if law enforcement is your daughter, your brother, your neighbor, you, that would give the Us/Them mentality a new feel.  Sometimes officers are assassinated just for being officers.  That might be reduced if everyone, everyone were required to be on the inside for 6 months or a year.  Preferably before they have any criminal record.  I don't think it's asking to much to require American citizens to give back this way.  There could be incentives for getting the service done before graduation, like earning credits, and programs to get it down before a mandatory age limit.  I suppose this opens up a lot of questions, but it's been on my mind for a long time.  We take so much for granted, and a lot of people never give back.  We tax people, but we have few other lifetime requirements.  It's like just paying your way & paying your taxes is enough.  How about serving your country a little?

Another idea is to have smaller schools.  Can't shoot too many people if there aren't too many people there.  Plus, with smaller populations, staff would be more in touch with students' mental health.

Which brings me to:  Mental health.  With both parents working full time and often still struggling, I don't know the answer.  But, many kids just don't have good parenting.  Should schools teach about core values, resiliency, altruism, etc...?  I don't know, but if the parents don't have time...?

[Jackstar]

I don't get how people are having actual spasms over deaths by guns, when vehicles kill far, far more people every day. Completely mystifying to me. Get some perspective.

[Uncle Duke]

I don't get how people are having actual spasms over deaths by guns, when vehicles kill far, far more people every day. Completely mystifying to me. Get some perspective.

A smaller subset of vehicular deaths are those caused by drunk drivers, yet for some reason their actions are accepted as a given.  I'm far more concerned about being killed by a drunk behind the wheel of a car than I am a wackjob with a gun.  In most cases, I at least have a chance to defend myself and my family against the shooter.

[SredniVashtar]

A smaller subset of vehicular deaths are those caused by drunk drivers, yet for some reason their actions are accepted as a given.  I'm far more concerned about being killed by a drunk behind the wheel of a car than I am a wackjob with a gun.  In most cases, I at least have a chance to defend myself and my family against the shooter.

They aren't accepted as a given, if you're caught driving under the influence you will be arrested and hopefully jailed. There is actual legislation to prevent it happening, although you can argue about its effectiveness. When it comes to guns all you get is a shoulder shrug, as though being shot were an act of god instead of a preventable death.

[Dr. MD MD]

They aren't accepted as a given, if you're caught driving under the influence you will be arrested and hopefully jailed. There is actual legislation to prevent it happening, although you can argue about its effectiveness. When it comes to guns all you get is a shoulder shrug, as though being shot were an act of god instead of a preventable death.

Is that how you guys do it in Britain? Seems pretty callous but I’d expect that from communists, who’ve historically committed way more genocide than The Nazis ever did.

[SredniVashtar]

Is that how you guys do it in Britain? Seems pretty callous but I’d expect that from communists, who’ve historically committed way more genocide than The Nazis ever did.

Sounds like you've just woken up. You'd better go back to bed, honey.

[Dr. MD MD]

Sounds like you've just woken up. You'd better go back to bed, honey.

I’ve been woke for awhile now. It’s you and your country that need to wake up.

[SredniVashtar]

I’ve been woke for awhile now. It’s you and your country that need to wake up.

If being 'woke' involves joining a human centipede with a bunch of shut-ins like you and jacktard, I'd rather stay asleep, thanks all the same.