20151113 - Terrorism in Paris - Open Lines - Live Show Chat Thread

[swordpoint9]

Sorry Art, not impressed with the "expert".  He's not much of an upgrade from Craig Hulet over at George's show.

Agreed Duke !

[Rocky4228]

Indeed.  We have big problems in Minnesota with the huge Somali population.  They're constantly arresting young men planning to go oversees and fight for the terrorists.

[GravitySucks]

Well, FLLFlash is it a better idea to find out who they are and kill them, or wait until they kill your loved ones?  Like, while they're in a movie theater, or at the ball game or maybe watching a concert?  Your call.

So war crimes are in the eye of the beer holder.

[JamesMcDonald]

He's just falling back on the strategy where we prop up a client strongman to keep order.  In his defense, it's the only thing that has seemed to work.

I think we understood the context of his comments differently.  He seemed to be indicating that Assad was one of the "evil dictators" who uses things like chemical weapons on his own people, so we should not deal with him.  In fact, he seemed to indicate we should go to all-out war with Syria.  Maybe I understood it wrong.  He wasn't too clear on his intention.

[Ghost Nutter]

I don't  think the guest is picking up on art's sense of humor

[Hog]

Like NYC and DC were so well defended in 2001.

They were defended well.  The problem was that the defense hinged on a threat coming in from the sea or over the pole. Not a threat from within it's own borders.

peace
Hog

[JamesMcDonald]

So war crimes are in the eye of the beer holder.

Uh, no.  I think a little intellectual honesty goes a long way.

Bush is a war criminal.  Nothing will change that.

[MABUSE]

The excuse will be that it is better to leave twitter etc. in tact so that "we" can monitor the bad guys because WE have the firepower and fu to magically follow all of this but we are not act on any threat we decipher for fear of the bad guys changing systems.  Its the "enigma" argument vis-à-vis Churchill and Coventry.
Of course, we have only the Powers that Be's assurance of the veracity of any of that proposition...
**M**

[FLLFlash]

That would be a war crime buddy 

F that.

[(Sandman) Logan-5]

If Putin can restore the flow of Syrian Latakia pipe tobacco to the market, he's welcome to it.

Good stuff, but I use Oneida Nations Black Cherry Fire to avoid suppy interruptions.

Happy Fri 13th Everyone


OOOhh.... Serenade

[albrecht]

Sorry Art, not impressed with the "expert".  He's not much of an upgrade from Craig Hulet over at George's show.

Yah, too quick. I think he should have some guys from the 'old guard' during the Algerian crisis and attempted coup and the so-called 'rightwing' types who could've saved both Algeria and France.

[swordpoint9]

They were defended well.  The problem was that the defense hinged on a threat coming in from the sea or over the pole. Not a threat from within it's own borders.

peace
Hog

agreed to a point Sir .....

[Lt.Uhura]

I think his point was it's allowing them to use those tools to better communicate with each other.

Where's Anonymous?   

[norland2424]

F that.

Im being sarcastic lol.

[maren]

Very interesting guest (I learned things) - and as always, spot-on questions from Art (and I learned things because of those questions, too).

I missed just about all of this today while at work and running around -- came home and turned on CNN and MSNBC, but was most happy to learn Art was going to have a bit on it.   Art always does the right thing.

Thanks, Art.

And thanks for being here, Bellgabbers *BIG group hug*

[K_Dubb]

I think we understood the context of his comments differently.  He seemed to be indicating that Assad was one of the "evil dictators" who uses things like chemical weapons on his own people, so we should not deal with him.  In fact, he seemed to indicate we should go to all-out war with Syria.  Maybe I understood it wrong.  He wasn't too clear on his intention.

I understood his "sit down with Assad" as maybe calling for a restoration.  Will have to consult the archive in the morning to be sure.

[MABUSE]

Where's Anonymous?

Busy in their jihad against all enemies of the "Progressive" social engineering diktat.
**M**

[Sandra Kristen]

We need to have a sit down talk with our "Allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia if we are actually serious about ending fundamentalist Islamic terror. But noooope.

[WanagoBleu]

Very interesting guest (I learned things) - and as always, spot-on questions from Art (and I learned things because of those questions, too).

I missed just about all of this today while at work and running around -- came home and turned on CNN and MSNBC, but was most happy to learn Art was going to have a bit on it.   Art always does the right thing.

Thanks, Art.

And thanks for being here, Bellgabbers *BIG group hug*

hugs back to you Maren!

[albrecht]

Where's Anonymous?

They are busy hacking teenage girls phone accounts, small town sheriffs, and, relatively, benign US and European governments, or just going after old people and small businesses with their hacking crytpolocking crap. Heaven forbid they go after cartels, terrorists, dangerous countries, banker criminal launders, etc.

[swordpoint9]

We need to have a sit down talk with our "Allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia if we are actually serious about ending fundamentalist Islamic terror. But noooope.

I totally Agree having been there done that even in the Kingdom of SA ...

[GravitySucks]

We need to have a sit down talk with our "Allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia if we are actually serious about ending fundamentalist Islamic terror. But noooope.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2015/09/04/the-arab-worlds-wealthiest-nations-are-doing-next-to-nothing-for-syrias-refugees/

[JamesMcDonald]

That would be a war crime buddy 

The definition of a "war crime" is very clear, in case any of you are wondering or unsure.

https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule156

It's a long read, but the bottom line is what the U.S. did in Iraq is a war crime.  That's why this is such a complicated and toxic situation.  You have to remember that was the LONGEST war in American history, and many of the people we are now seeing fighting are the CHILDREN of those killed by U.S. and "coalition" forces back in the 2000's.

I predicted this would happen when Bush pulled the trigger.  And I was right.  Many of those fighting with ISIS and others right now were 9, 10, 11 year old boys who watched their families get killed.  Now they're in their late teens and early 20's, and they're FUCKING mad.

I must say there is a hell of a lot of denial in the U.S. right now.  Bread and circuses baby.

[MABUSE]

They are busy hacking teenage girls phone accounts, small town sheriffs, and, relatively, benign US and European governments, or just going after old people and small businesses with their hacking crytpolocking crap. Heaven forbid they go after cartels, terrorists, dangerous countries, banker criminal launders, etc.

ok AND THAT TOO! LOL!!!
EXCELLENT!
**M**

[norland2424]

We need to have a sit down talk with our "Allies" like Turkey and Saudi Arabia if we are actually serious about ending fundamentalist Islamic terror. But noooope.

Lol goodluck with that.

[FLLFlash]

France is about the size of Texas.
True, but back in May when Islamic Terrorists decided to attack a cartoon festival here in Texas,
they discovered that we are not sheep to the slaughter.
In tactical terms it was not only an epic FAIL for the terrorists, but also a humiliation.
One good old DPS trooper faced off against an AK armed jihadi with his service pistol and took care of business.
**M**

This is tough to say but...

This attack was a major fail as well. The stadium attack was a flop and I rather imagine that was the primary piece.

[Uncle Duke]

Horne is a good author (LOVE his stuff on Napoleon, "How Far Austerlitz" is one my favorites.) but, Uncle, they also didnt go as far as maybe they should. Look to Philippians etc or etc. The French "right" at the time could've forbade this. (You will recall, I'm sure, the intrigue and almost coups at that time from them.) If they would've won? Algiers, solved, no immigrants, no imbedded fifth column in the suburbs and even, maybe, a balance for Germany and EU (or a more acceleralted Germany-based EU?) Who knows?

Fair points, but probably not the place to get into a detailed discussion of French political vice military decisions/reactions regarding Algeria.  Would also get into a serious discussion of Suez and the Eisenhower Administration's reaction to Anglo-Franco "colonialism" and how that got us into the shitstorm we're in today.  Would love to sit down with you over a couple beers, would be great to see where we agree and disagree.

[starrmtn001]

Ruptly TV has been giving good coverage, sometimes live.

https://www.youtube.com/user/RuptlyTV

[GravitySucks]

The definition of a "war crime" is very clear, in case any of you are wondering or unsure.

https://www.icrc.org/customary-ihl/eng/docs/v1_rul_rule156

It's a long read, but the bottom line is what the U.S. did in Iraq is a war crime.  That's why this is such a complicated and toxic situation.  You have to remember that was the LONGEST war in American history, and many of the people we are now seeing fighting are the CHILDREN of those killed by U.S. and "coalition" forces back in the 2000's.

I predicted this would happen when Bush pulled the trigger.  And I was right.  Many of those fighting with ISIS and others right now were 9, 10, 11 year old boys.  Now they're in their late teens and early 20's, and they're FUCKING mad.

I must say there is a hell of a lot of denial in the U.S. right now.  Bread and circuses baby.

The part I agree with is that Sadaam should have been allowed to keep killing all the Sunnis he wanted to.

[VtaGeezer]

France is about the size of Texas.
True, but back in May when Islamic Terrorists decided to attack a cartoon festival here in Texas,
they discovered that we are not sheep to the slaughter.
In tactical terms it was not only an epic FAIL for the terrorists, but also a humiliation.
One good old DPS trooper faced off against an AK armed jihadi with his service pistol and took care of business.
**M**

It helped that the attackers were untrained idiots who attacked an event that expected trouble and had police posted.  The guys in Paris were trained and well coordinated.  They had scouted a major concert venue that had no security.  They went in shooting and there was no time for reaction.  I wouldn't be surprised if the 100+ victims were dead before the cops knew the place was attacked.