Hoagland-Mitchell Friedman-Klass Debates

[driton]

Hey everyone. Been listening to Art Bell since the mid 90's when it first came to WPHT in Philadelphia. Have tons of his shows on mp3 but for the life of me i cannot locate these 2 classics.

05-01-1994 ART BELL
Dreamland - Stanton Friedman & Phil Klass Debate

08-06-1996 5 ART BELL DR. EDGAR MITCHELL, RICHARD C. HOAGLAND
Rebroadcast of May 15, 1996 broadcast - Debate - Hoagland / Mitchell - Ancient Lunar Architecture

Ive checked every source i know of,but cannot locate them.
Any help would be appreciated!

[expat]

The transcript of Hoagland/Mitchell is here.

[driton]

Thanks for the link expat. However i already knew of the text version,and was hoping for the actual recording of it. Ive downloaded art bell torrents for years and never came across these 2 shows on any site...Fineartstream had the hoagland mitchell debate on a few days ago so there had to be copies of those shows floating around somewhere (probably when the older sites were still around)
Oh well,i guess i hafta be part of a secret underground art bell show exchange before i can grab these shows.

[Morgus]

I think some of those older shows from the mid 90s were only available on cassette tapes that you used to be able to order back then.
Unless the network replays it on the weekend Somewhere in Time rebroadcasts, there isn't many other sources to record it from to digital format.

[Archivist1947]

Hey everyone. Been listening to Art Bell since the mid 90's when it first came to WPHT in Philadelphia. Have tons of his shows on mp3 but for the life of me i cannot locate these 2 classics.

05-01-1994 ART BELL
Dreamland - Stanton Friedman & Phil Klass Debate

08-06-1996 5 ART BELL DR. EDGAR MITCHELL, RICHARD C. HOAGLAND
Rebroadcast of May 15, 1996 broadcast - Debate - Hoagland / Mitchell - Ancient Lunar Architecture

Ive checked every source i know of,but cannot locate them.
Any help would be appreciated!

Hello Driton. I second that.

Friedman / Klass debate is a show that I am searching for years but also not luck so far. It is historically imporant show.

I think we would have more luck if it was within c2c. However, it is an early date of Dreamland which makes the search extremely difficult. Also there was rebroadcast of that show later so at least any of those two dates will do. Here they are:

Dreamland, May 01, 1994
Rebroadcast also on August 31, 1997
UFO Debate - Stanton Friedman vs Phil Klass

About Hoagland / Michell show - I have a portion of that. Let me know if you are still active on this forum so I could upload it for you.

If anyone else has a lead about Klass Friedman debate, please let me know.

Here are additional c2c shows that I am searching for - if anyone has them please also contact me in PM for exchange. I have a huge archives:

- June 1 1998 - Kewper interview
- July 2nd, 1997 show, titled "Roswell Investigation" with Jamie Shandera and James Bond Johnson.
- March 28, 1997 - Interview with Sarah McClendon

[Uncle Duke]

Count me in as someone who'd love to hear the Friedman-Klass debate. 

The late Phil Klass has become almost the Devil Incarnate to many of the UFO "experts" we hear on C2C.  I've heard him accused of so many things, but sadly he's not here to defend himself.  They make Klass out to be some deranged lunatic who lived to debunk UFO sightings.

Phillip Klass was an electrical engineer, and one of the world's foremost authorties on aviation electronics ("avionics", a term Klass developed).  In addition to being a Fellow of the Institute of Electrical and Electronic Engineers, he was a senior editor for the world's most respected aerospace magazine, "Aviation Week & Space Technology".  He had over a 25 year career as an engineer/writer before becoming interested in UFOs.  He was already a legend in the aerospace engineering world when I entered the field in 1979.

Klass could be caustic, but he was also brilliant.  He didn't suffer fools well, and he was offended by the pseudo-science many UFO "experts" used to justify their claims.  Few, if any, of these folks could hold a candle to Klass when it came to scientific and engineering expertise.  I've heard Friedman say he won his C2C debate with Klass, but that's based on a listeners' poll.  Considering most C2C listeners are UFO devotees, it's no surprise they voted for their guy.  Admittedly I've never heard the show, but I've heard both men many times on various programs.  If Friedman laid a glove on Klass, I'd be surprised.

[driton]

Hello Driton. I second that.

Friedman / Klass debate is a show that I am searching for years but also not luck so far. It is historically imporant show.

I think we would have more luck if it was within c2c. However, it is an early date of Dreamland which makes the search extremely difficult. Also there was rebroadcast of that show later so at least any of those two dates will do. Here they are:

Dreamland, May 01, 1994
Rebroadcast also on August 31, 1997
UFO Debate - Stanton Friedman vs Phil Klass

About Hoagland / Michell show - I have a portion of that. Let me know if you are still active on this forum so I could upload it for you.

If anyone else has a lead about Klass Friedman debate, please let me know.

Here are additional c2c shows that I am searching for - if anyone has them please also contact me in PM for exchange. I have a huge archives:

- June 1 1998 - Kewper interview
- July 2nd, 1997 show, titled "Roswell Investigation" with Jamie Shandera and James Bond Johnson.
- March 28, 1997 - Interview with Sarah McClendon

Hey archivist,thanks for the lead on the hoagland/mitchell debate.
I have a very extensive Art Bell collection (124gb) and can send you filelists of all the years and shows i have.
Ive listened to every show 50x each but dont recall the 3 you were looking for, so id have to verify when i return home on Friday.
Thanks for replying!

[Archivist1947]

Count me in as someone who'd love to hear the Friedman-Klass debate. 

The late Phil Klass has become almost the Devil Incarnate to many of the UFO "experts" we hear on C2C.  I've heard him accused of so many things, but sadly he's not here to defend himself.  They make Klass out to be some deranged lunatic who lived to debunk UFO sightings.

<snip>

He Uncle.
You could be interested in this compilation from Kevin Randle:
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2011/09/philip-klass-and-his-letter-writing.html
http://kevinrandle.blogspot.com/2013/07/philip-klass-and-frederick-valentich.html

Also, recent archival discovery by Don Ecker:
http://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/the-great-ecker-klass-debate.13346/
Audio:

http://www.dqrm.com/shows/DMR/2013/wk20/dmr-26-t.mp3

Another show: Don Ecker vs Phil Klass
http://www.theparacast.com/forum/threads/the-phil-klass-meltdown.5663/
Phil Klass Opening

http://www.theparacast.com/darkmatters/PhilKlassOpening.mp3
Klass Hour 01

http://www.theparacast.com/darkmatters/PhilKlass01.mp3
Klass Hour 02

http://www.theparacast.com/darkmatters/PhilKlass02.mp3

Klass vs Hynek
http://ufoupdateslist.com/2005/nov/m06-003.shtml

[Archivist1947]

Hey archivist,thanks for the lead on the hoagland/mitchell debate.
I have a very extensive Art Bell collection (124gb) and can send you filelists of all the years and shows i have.
Ive listened to every show 50x each but dont recall the 3 you were looking for, so id have to verify when i return home on Friday.
Thanks for replying!

I will now upload the portion of debate with Mitchell that I have.
Will report soon. Update - check PM.

[Uncle Duke]

Archivist--

Thanks for taking the time to locate and post the URLs about Phil Klass.  Randle's commentary I'd seen before, in fact his views on Klass were what I had in mind when I made my earlier post about accusations by "experts".   Some of the things I read/heard about Klass on your posted URLs I believe, others not at all.  Note, I never said Klass should be nominated for sainthood, and I allowed he could be caustic.  He might have been an SoB, but he was one brilliant SoB.  And again I'll note these claims were made after his death, leaving him no opportunity to defend himself.

Mr. Ecker I know very little about, other than like most UFO "experts" he has his share of supporters and detractors within the ufology field.  My only comment on what you posted on/by him relative to Klass seems to be self promoting.  Ecker also got only two sentences into his comments about Klass in that first URL before referring to him as a "huge Dick".  Difficult to take much of what he says after that too seriously, objectivity is out the window.

Kevin Randle I know a great deal more about, even attended a lecture he gave some years back.  He's a retired military officer who saw service in both Vietnam and Iraq.  I respect and commend his service to our nation.  His comments about Klass brought to mind the old adage about "glass houses", however.  A few points about Randle:

1) Randle accused Klass of using his AW&ST position to add credibility to his debunking efforts despite that job having no connection to same.  As I recall, in his early books Randle included his US military reserve rank with his name on those book covers.  Clearly Randle's military service had no connection to his UFO investigations, yet he used it for the credibility he thought it would give him.

2) His early books were written in conjunction with a co-author who lied about and misled readers regarding both his education and occupation.  Randle claimed after the fact he didn't know his co-author was a phony.  If we give him the benefit of the doubt, accepting he didn't know, then shouldn't we ask why didn't he know?   He's selling himself as an investigator.  Does he take the word of everyone he talks with about their experiences/credibility? 

3) Randle now bills himself as "Dr. Kevin Randle".  His PhD is from California Coast University, a distance-learning school not requiring (or even offering) classroom attendance.  The school's accreditation history is sketchy, and  CCU is often referred to as a "diploma mill".  Google CCU and you'll find arguments both pro and con concerning the viability of a doctorate from the school.  I am not an educator, but I think we can all agree CCU isn't Stanford, or even the University of Phoenix.  Is the questionable PhD beside his name to add credibility, like his military rank? 

I think I'd comment on Randle much the same way he did about Klass at the end of his 2011 blog post, he's probably a good guy outside the UFO arena. How you fell about him is a matter of perspective.

[Archivist1947]

Hi Uncle. Thanks for your views. Klass is an important person in the UFO history and within skeptical movement, and his works should be read and collected. From my perspective, I am less then impressed with his contribution to resolve UFO mystery where Frederick Valentich fiasco is just one example. However, as I said, it is important to follow his works which is my main reason for reactivating this thread.

So to return to the main issue here - if anyone has or can acquire this historical Dreamland debate between Klass and Friedman, please post it on this thread.

[Archivist1947]

Hi Driton.

Just wanted to check did you have any luck obtaining Klass-Friedman debate?

If not, I am also still searching for it. I am thinking actually to write to Premiere and to order the show if possible.

Best regards.

A1947