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President Donald J. Trump

Started by The General, February 11, 2011, 01:33:34 AM

GravitySucks

Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 09:04:59 PM
The Republicans are robbing from health care, education and children for the biggest tax break ever given to the people who by far have the most money already. And adding $1 trillion to the deficit. May they burn in a Hell of their own creation

Bush and the establishment doubled the debt in 8 years.

Obama and the establishment doubled the debt once again in 8 years.

So far Trump is running way behind Obama as far as the federal debt. But if doubling the debt is the new norm, then he gets about $3 trillion per year to parlay with.

Guaranteed the debt would be going up faster under any other president.

Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 09:04:59 PM
The Republicans are robbing from health care, education and children for the biggest tax break ever given to the people who by far have the most money already. And adding $1 trillion to the deficit. May they burn in a Hell of their own creation

Because what we really need are more taxes and more government programs.  Would the amount demanded by government ever be enough, or will it always just be ''more''?

TigerLily

Quote from: GravitySucks on December 05, 2017, 09:28:29 PM
Bush and the establishment doubled the debt in 8 years.

Obama and the establishment doubled the debt once again in 8 years.

So far Trump is running way behind Obama as far as the federal debt. But if doubling the debt is the new norm, then he gets about $3 trillion per year to parlay with.

Guaranteed the debt would be going up faster under any other president.

Once again the "'cause Obama" defense. Bush had a war to pay for and refused to raise taxes to pay for it. Obama was trying to stimulate the economy during the biggest recession since Great Depression and was trying to stop that from happening again. What is Trump's excuse? Do you approve of the tax "reform" on its own merits?

GravitySucks

Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 10:21:00 PM
Once again the "'cause Obama" defense. Bush had a war to pay for and refused to raise taxes to pay for it. Obama was trying to stimulate the economy during the biggest recession since Great Depression and was trying to stop that from happening again. What is Trump's excuse? Do you approve of the tax "reform" on its own merits?

There was no “cause Obama” in that. Cheap shot but you did try to offer up weak excuses for an enormous deficit... I am not happy with federal spending and any of our current taxation.

Bottom line is we don’t have a taxation problem. We have a spending problem brought about by the establishment politicians that are liars, crooks, perverts and pondscum. Yet people keep electing the same establishment candidates. Except this time. 

I have no opinion on the tax bill because the final bill has not been written yet. If the corportae tax is cut way back, if small business owners don’t get screwed the way they are now, and if the tax code gets simplified at all I will be happy. Not as happy as if they would have gone with a flat tax.

BTW - the tax code is just the minimum you need to pay. Feel free to add in how ever much you think your federal government deserves. Liberals don’t speak to that.  They will fight for and claim every tax deduction just like a conservative.

albrecht

Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 10:21:00 PM
Once again the "'cause Obama" defense. Bush had a war to pay for and refused to raise taxes to pay for it. Obama was trying to stimulate the economy during the biggest recession since Great Depression and was trying to stop that from happening again. What is Trump's excuse? Do you approve of the tax "reform" on its own merits?
I will comment more once reconciliation happens and it is, actually, law. In general any tax lessening, regardless for whom, is good. Ideally would be tied to a budget and spending balance or, better yet, reduction. I like the idea of various deductions being curtailed because maybe voters will wake up in states that love to tax and spend being able to mitigate, somewhat, by saving on Fed taxes. Force them to reform their spendthrift ways, taxations schemes, housing bubbles, etc - or, if they like it- pay for it-out of their pocket. I would much rather eliminate the Federal income tax and either use, as intended, various excise taxes and tariffs, for a severely limited Federal government or a national sales tax, or a flat tax even,  with some provisions for basic foodstuffs, other transactions, etc.  But get rid of the bloated system with all the regulatory capture, corporate welfare, that pays for our nanny-state welfare, social experiments, make-work government jobs, and endless wars.

Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 10:21:00 PM
... Obama was trying to stimulate the economy during the biggest recession since Great Depression...

And how did that work out, other than digging the country $10 Trillion deeper in debt?

If he was trying to stimulate the economy, he was a colossal failure.  If if was just part of his attempt to destroy the country, then well done.


By the way, how are you coming in figuring the total amount of government spending you think will finally be enough?

TigerLily

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 05, 2017, 09:42:25 PM
Because what we really need are more taxes and more government programs.  Would the amount demanded by government ever be enough, or will it always just be ''more''?

I am for a balanced budget. If I were Queen I certainly would not drastically cut taxes on the rich. I would roll back the Bush tax cuts for the wealthy. I would invest in infrastructure, and high tech.  I would provide incentives for hiring and training more employees here at home and penalize companies hiring overseas or parking money outside the country. I would get rid of no-bid government contracts.

The last time we had not only a balanced budget but a surplus that wiped out the current deficit was under Clinton. "The Clinton years showed the effects of a large tax increase that Clinton pushed through in his first year, and that Republicans incorrectly claim is the "largest tax increase in history." It fell almost exclusively on upper-income taxpayers. Clinton’s fiscal 1994 budget also contained some spending restraints. An equally if not more powerful influence was the booming economy and huge gains in the stock markets, the so-called dot-com bubble, which brought in hundreds of millions in unanticipated tax revenue from taxes on capital gains and rising salaries."


GravitySucks

Bush tax cuts are no longer in effect, they were sunsetted and expired in 2010. ... hence the top rate of 39.6%.

Hey, Obama is in India on a political mission. 

Not only is it traditional for ex-presidents to step aside and give their successor room to operate without having them looming in the background, haven't we been told contact by anyone but the president and his administration is highly illegal?  That not even an incoming transition team is allowed contact?  Not that it is or ever was an issue, but isn't that what we've been told for a year now?

GravitySucks

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 06, 2017, 12:01:06 AM
Hey, Obama is in India on a political mission. 

Not only is it traditional for ex-presidents to step aside and give their successor room to operate without having them looming in the background, haven't we been told contact by anyone but the president and his administration is highly illegal?  That not even an incoming transition team is allowed contact?  Not that it is or ever was an issue, but isn't that what we've been told for a year now?

Well, except those speeches that Clinton got paid for in Russia.

TigerLily

Quote from: albrecht on December 05, 2017, 10:52:44 PM
I will comment more once reconciliation happens and it is, actually, law. In general any tax lessening, regardless for whom, is good. Ideally would be tied to a budget and spending balance or, better yet, reduction. I like the idea of various deductions being curtailed because maybe voters will wake up in states that love to tax and spend being able to mitigate, somewhat, by saving on Fed taxes. Force them to reform their spendthrift ways, taxations schemes, housing bubbles, etc - or, if they like it- pay for it-out of their pocket. I would much rather eliminate the Federal income tax and either use, as intended, various excise taxes and tariffs, for a severely limited Federal government or a national sales tax, or a flat tax even,  with some provisions for basic foodstuffs, other transactions, etc.  But get rid of the bloated system with all the regulatory capture, corporate welfare, that pays for our nanny-state welfare, social experiments, make-work government jobs, and endless wars.

Once it's law we are stuck with it. If they thought it was a good bill why are they trying to push it through so fast? The Republicans have said this is something they had to pass for the donor class to keep that sweet campaign money coming in. It is not for us. The majority of Americans are against it. Which is a remarkable thing for tax cutting

"Nov 7, 2017 · "My donors are basically saying, 'Get it done or don't ever call me again,'" [Senator] Collins told reporters.

"Nov 9, 2017 · Sen. Lindsey Graham (R-S.C.) on Thursday became the latest Republican to admit the GOP is trying to ram through massive tax cuts for the rich to satisfy its wealthy donors, telling a journalist"

Nov 9, 2017 · “(Donors) would be mortified if we didn't live up to what we've committed to on tax reform,” Steven Law, the head of Senate Leadership Fund, a super PAC affiliated with Senate Majority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) ..."

"Nov 20, 2017 · "Get Obamacare repealed and replaced, get tax reform passed," Doug Deason, a high-profile Texas donor, warned Republican lawmakers, per the AP. "You control the Senate. You control the House. You have the presidency ..."

GravitySucks

Quote from: TigerLily on December 06, 2017, 12:08:09 AM
Once it's law we are stuck with it. If they thought it was a good bill why are they trying to push it through so fast? The Republicans have said this is something they had to pass for the donor class to keep that sweet campaign money coming in. It is not for us. The majority of Americans are against it. Which is a remarkable thing for tax cutting


That is funny. First of all, 50% do not pay ANY income taxes, and it is a fact that many get more than they ever had withheld on their checks due to various credits.

Second, noone onows what the final bill will contain, so anyone that has an opinion is only basing that on what some talking head told them was in the bill.

Quote from: TigerLily on December 06, 2017, 12:08:09 AM
Once it's law we are stuck with it. If they thought it was a good bill why are they trying to push it through so fast?...

Still complaining about ObamaCare?

TigerLily

Quote from: GravitySucks on December 06, 2017, 12:01:06 AM
Bush tax cuts are no longer in effect, they were sunsetted and expired in 2010. ... hence the top rate of 39.6%.

Kind of right but mostly wrong:

On January 1, 2013, the Bush Tax Cuts expired. However, on January 2, 2013, President Obama signed the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012, which reinstated many of the tax cuts, effective retroactively to January 1.

In 2012, during the fiscal cliff, the tax cuts were made permanent for single people earning less than $400,000 per year and couples making less than $450,000 per year, and eliminated for everyone else, under the American Taxpayer Relief Act of 2012.

Before the tax cuts, the highest marginal income tax rate was 39.6 percent. After the cuts, the highest rate was 35 percent. Once the cuts were eliminated for high income levels (single people making $400,000+ per year and couples making $450,000+ per year), the top income tax rate returned to 39.6 percent.

Trump spoke after the Senate approved a $1.5 trillion tax bill early Saturday that would rewrite the nation's tax code, cut individual rates and slash the corporate tax rate from 35 percent to 20 percent beginning in 2019.


Now the illegal alien murder's lawyers are going to ask the judge to throw out his his gun possession conviction.  You know, the people always insisting they are for ''social justice''.  Does this sound like they want social justice?  Or any kind of justice?  Remember that next time they are out rioting and blocking traffic in the name of ''social justice''. 

This is what the Left does.  What they want you to think they mean when they use certain words and phases is not what they mean by them at all

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/04/kate-steinle-appeal-gun-conviction/ 

TigerLily

Quote from: GravitySucks on December 06, 2017, 12:16:02 AM
That is funny. First of all, 50% do not pay ANY income taxes, and it is a fact that many get more than they ever had withheld on their checks due to various credits.

Second, noone onows what the final bill will contain, so anyone that has an opinion is only basing that on what some talking head told them was in the bill.

Apple, which reserved $15.8 billion for income taxes on $59 billion in operating income. Apple reports its effective tax rate as 25.8%, which is quite a bit lower than the statutory 35% rate.

Microsoft in the year ended June 2016 had $20.1 billion in foreign income and a domestic loss of $300 million. Microsoft’s income tax expense was $3.3 billion, for an effective rate of 16.5%. Alphabet, the parent company of Google, posted a $4.7 billion tax expense, or 19%

. General Electric earned $10 billion last year, but recorded a tax benefit of $400 million for a 12-month tax rate of -4.5%.

ExxonMobil, because of the collapse in oil prices, had an odd income statement in 2016, with EBIT of $4.2 billion, net income of $7.8 billion, and a $406 million income tax benefit. That would imply that Exxon paid no taxes in 2016

Trump made ?????   And paid ?????

GravitySucks

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 06, 2017, 12:25:36 AM
Now the illegal alien murder's lawyers are going to ask the judge to throw out his his gun possession conviction.  You know, the people always insisting they are for ''social justice''.  Does this sound like they want social justice?  Or any kind of justice?  Remember that next time they are out rioting and blocking traffic in the name of ''social justice''. 

This is what the Left does.  What they want you to think they mean when they use certain words and phases is not what they mean by them at all

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2017/12/04/kate-steinle-appeal-gun-conviction/ 

Its not his fault. He didn’t know he had illegally entered the United States again after being deported the last time.

I heard a federal grand jury issued an indictment for him today concerning his violation of his deportation orders.

Quote from: GravitySucks on December 06, 2017, 12:33:33 AM
Its not his fault. He didn’t know he had illegally entered the United States again after being deported the last time.

I heard a federal grand jury issued an indictment for him today concerning his violation of his deportation orders.

I think it was for felon in possession of a gun, and illegal alien in possession of a gun. 

GravitySucks

Quote from: TigerLily on December 06, 2017, 12:30:54 AM
Apple, which reserved $15.8 billion for income taxes on $59 billion in operating income. Apple reports its effective tax rate as 25.8%, which is quite a bit lower than the statutory 35% rate.

Microsoft in the year ended June 2016 had $20.1 billion in foreign income and a domestic loss of $300 million. Microsoft’s income tax expense was $3.3 billion, for an effective rate of 16.5%. Alphabet, the parent company of Google, posted a $4.7 billion tax expense, or 19%

. General Electric earned $10 billion last year, but recorded a tax benefit of $400 million for a 12-month tax rate of -4.5%.

ExxonMobil, because of the collapse in oil prices, had an odd income statement in 2016, with EBIT of $4.2 billion, net income of $7.8 billion, and a $406 million income tax benefit. That would imply that Exxon paid no taxes in 2016

Trump made ?????   And paid ?????

Tack into the wind?

It is estimated that there is $4 trillion in offehore accounts that could be repatriated under the new tax law. Getting that money into the US economy is a good thing, right?  Paying income tax (of any percentage) on that money is better than never seeing any of it, right? 

I would still have preferred a 30% decrease across all federal agencies the first year and 20% over the next year. And then we could have REALLY “afforded” a tax cut.

Cracks me up when they ask how can we Afford a taxcut. That is a nonsensical statement. It starts with the premise that all of the money belongs to the federal government. Bassackwards thinking.




Quote from: TigerLily on December 05, 2017, 08:59:06 PM
Jerusalem is in Palestinian territory. Think the Berlin corridor through East Germany. Makes it a complicated issue

It is not Palestinean territory. There was no Palestine before Israel settled there.

Quote from: GravitySucks on December 05, 2017, 10:44:11 PM
There was no “cause Obama” in that. Cheap shot but you did try to offer up weak excuses for an enormous deficit... I am not happy with federal spending and any of our current taxation.

Bottom line is we don’t have a taxation problem. We have a spending problem brought about by the establishment politicians that are liars, crooks, perverts and pondscum. Yet people keep electing the same establishment candidates. Except this time. 

I have no opinion on the tax bill because the final bill has not been written yet. If the corportae tax is cut way back, if small business owners don’t get screwed the way they are now, and if the tax code gets simplified at all I will be happy. Not as happy as if they would have gone with a flat tax.

BTW - the tax code is just the minimum you need to pay. Feel free to add in how ever much you think your federal government deserves. Liberals don’t speak to that.  They will fight for and claim every tax deduction just like a conservative.

^THIS^

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:03:57 AM
It is not Palestinean territory. There was no Palestine before Israel settled there.

Sometimes I try to imagine what the world would be like now if Israel never happened. Given that the surviving Jews would've eventually settled somewhere (I know they weren't allowed to for over a year but I see that as part of the theater necessary to make their case for Israel ;)) it always seems more positive and hopeful. I mean no slight against Jews but imaging the creativity and productivity that might be freed up if we didn't have to constantly concentrate on this "foreign policy" problem.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 01:16:53 AM
Sometimes I try to imagine what the world would be like now if Israel never happened. Given that the surviving Jews would've eventually settled somewhere (I know they weren't allowed to for over a year but I see that as part of the theater necessary to make their case for Israel ;)) it always seems more positive and hopeful. I mean no slight against Jews but imaging the creativity and productivity that might be freed up if we didn't have to constantly concentrate on this "foreign policy" problem.

That's like saying what if the Bible wasn't written.  I'm hard-core pro Israeli.  Not Jewish that I know of though my Mom's name was Miriam.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:20:09 AM
That's like saying what if the Bible wasn't written.  I'm hard-core pro Israeli.  Not Jewish that I know of though my Mom's name was Miriam.

Not really otherwise I just would've said that. You understand that the old testament is the Jewish bible, right?

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 01:22:22 AM
Not really otherwise I just would've said that. You understand that the old testament is the Jewish bible, right?

Yes, of course. It is the Tanakh.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:27:27 AM
Yes, of course. It is the Tanakh.

You claim to be a Christian so let me ask you was Christ's message to people Hey, everyone! Be good Jews. Follow the Torah, go to temple on sabbath and, most of all, respect the pharisees?  ???

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 01:46:26 AM
You claim to be a Christian so let me ask you was Christ's message to people Hey, everyone! Be good Jews. Follow the Torah, go to temple on sabbath and, most of all, respect the pharisees?  ???

Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  I try to live by that. By the way, Christ did follow the Torah and go to Sabbath but had little use for pharisees.


I could say more but I try not to proselytize on Bellgab.

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