The Other Side of Midnight - Richard C. Hoagland - Live Chat Thread

[Jackstar]

if I convinced a few people that Hoagland was a liar I consider my time and dosh well spent.

Your standards of success are appallingly low, and/or you have way too much free time. Part of the guy's self-professed schtick is that he has to "speak in code" and "circle around the truth" because of "forces" and "reasons."

But, hey--who am I to criticize? Lodge orders is Lodge orders.

[Dr. MD MD]

Speaking for myself as a (well-known?) Hoagland critic, I don't think that. However, I'm willing to invest my time in reviewing and critiquing Hoagland's "work" in some detail. The Accutron, for one example. No doubt everyone with any sense just knows it's nonsense, but possibly most people aren't willing to take the time to investigate Hoagland's protocols and explain why it's nonsense. I must have written eight or more blogposts about this, attacking the data, and astroguy has written at least one long piece about it. Such things take time.


Another example: Analysis of Hoagland's claims about the orbit of Explorer 1. It took time, and some mathematical skill, but I thought it worthwhile to debunk back in 2008 and I don't regret spending that time.


Another from 2008. That stupid fucking robot head on the Moon. That took not only time but a bit of cash, obtaining the ultra-high-res image from NASA-JSC.


That one has had nearly 15,000 page views, and if I convinced a few people that Hoagland was a liar I consider my time and dosh well spent.


Cheers.

I know and I wasn't saying that I don't appreciate your posts and the others from the more skeptical crowd here...but at the same time I want to see Hoagie's show be successful because it's a lot of fun, especially when there are a lot of people on this thread. 

[astroguy]

I know and I wasn't saying that I don't appreciate your posts and the others from the more skeptical crowd here...but at the same time I want to see Hoagie's show be successful because it's a lot of fun, especially when there are a lot of people on this thread. 

I suppose it's also relevant that Richard frequently misrepresents the work of my friends and mine.  How would you feel if someone regularly - and with forethought - lies about something that you've devoted thousands of hours to?  I'm mostly referring here to New Horizons and Pluto stuff, but there are many other examples, like their recent misrepresentation of Simone Marchi's Ceres research.

[Jackstar]

How would you feel if someone regularly - and with forethought - lies about something that you've devoted thousands of hours to?

Kennedy
Cannabis
Fluoride
Vietnam
Gary Hart
Tuskegee
Nuclear power
The Armenian Genocide


If you really gave a shit you would have gotten around to talking about the Royal Order of Jesters by now. Instead, you're still farting around with eleventh-grade astromechanics and then having the sack to act surprised that Joe Sixpack is still largely misled. Yeah, you're a champion of the truth, sure.

Spare me.

[Dr. MD MD]

I suppose it's also relevant that Richard frequently misrepresents the work of my friends and mine.  How would you feel if someone regularly - and with forethought - lies about something that you've devoted thousands of hours to?  I'm mostly referring here to New Horizons and Pluto stuff, but there are many other examples, like their recent misrepresentation of Simone Marchi's Ceres research.

Right. I did forget about that. I remember you referring to some in-battles a couple of times but didn't really know the backstory. You guys seem really down on Distler though and I thought that there was some legit phenomena there with NASA being involved. I know it's early days with it but do you really think it's a hoax?

[astroguy]

Right. I did forget about that. I remember you referring to some in-battles a couple of times but didn't really know the backstory. You guys seem really down on Distler though and I thought that there was some legit phenomena there with NASA being involved. I know it's early days with it but do you really think it's a hoax?

I'm not an engineer so I haven't really commented on the "EM Drive" stuff.  My opinion is that there is a very high bar to proving that a very, very well established law of physics (conservation of momentum) is wrong, and that's been my primary response.  If it works without violating that, that's something else, but much of the hype around it (not necessarily from OSOM) has been that it violates physics so this is "zero point energy" so all of physics is wrong so we get to fly to other galaxies if only THEY would let us.

[Dr. MD MD]

I'm not an engineer so I haven't really commented on the "EM Drive" stuff.  My opinion is that there is a very high bar to proving that a very, very well established law of physics (conservation of momentum) is wrong, and that's been my primary response.  If it works without violating that, that's something else, but much of the hype around it (not necessarily from OSOM) has been that it violates physics so this is "zero point energy" so all of physics is wrong so we get to fly to other galaxies if only THEY would let us.

Well, I suspect at some point the physics we now know will be proven wrong to some degree. Perhaps it's not applicable on a subatomic level? I don't know. I think it's interesting though and until it's been proven a fraud I'd like to know more about it and recent developments.

[astroguy]

Well, I suspect at some point the physics we now know will be proven wrong to some degree. Perhaps it's not applicable on a subatomic level? I don't know. I think it's interesting though and until it's been proven a fraud I'd like to know more about it and recent developments.

It's always possible that something can be shown to be wrong.  It's just unlikely at this point for something such as this, though as you said, perhaps some things don't apply at all scales in the cosmos.  I think what many people don't realize is that "laws" or "theories" in physics are called that because they have withstood EVERY SINGLE ATTEMPT to try to disprove them.  It's mot equivalent to "something I dreamt up last night while on my wine break."


I think you also may be jumping to absolutes too much.  I have never said that something is either real or a fraud.  Saying that would be silly.  It's much, MUCH more likely that there's a mistake somewhere.  Remember the faster-than-light neutrinos from CERN's LHC a few years ago?  It wasn't new physics, nor was it fraud: It was tracked down to a cable that wasn't plugged in all the way, which changed the path length of something, which resolved everything.  The maxim, "Never attribute malice to something easily explained by incompetence" applies, though I would use more polite words than "incompetence."

[PaulAtreides]

Yes, the Haogster is fun to listen to - when he deigns to do a show.

[Morgus]

Looks more like a Darth Vader mask to me... 

[expat]

Looks more like a Darth Vader mask to me... 

Note the obvious rectangular overlays, turning the Moon emerald green, rotated 45° to make them slightly less obvious. FRAUD...

[astroguy]

Richard C. Hoagland:
Of course he has claims about
The solar eclipse.

Episode 169, "Modern Eclipse Lunacy, Part 3: Richard Hoagland's Claims," has been posted.

[GravitySucks]

Merry Christmas Dick

[crankshaft]

Does richard c hoagland have a live show tonight?
It's very hard to find any information on the internets concerning that. And his website is a disaster.
I am new here.
I am asking for a friend.
thank you

[Jackstar]

And his website is a disaster.

Still--superior to a Clinton presidency.

I am new here.
I am asking for a friend.
thank you

[Norm]

Does richard c hoagland have a live show tonight?
It's very hard to find any information on the internets concerning that. And his website is a disaster.
I am new here.
I am asking for a friend.
thank you

I have forwarded your request to Mr Hoagland's handlers. They will contact you with the information that you seek.


You're welcome.

[crankshaft]

I have forwarded your request to Mr Hoagland's handlers. They will contact you with the information that you seek.


You're welcome.

Thank you.
We haven't heard anything yet.
The hour is getting late.
My friend has authorized me to reveal that he has several chickens, a rooster, a duck, and a used goat to facilitate this transfer of information.

Thank you, Sir. Or whatever.

[GravitySucks]

Thank you.
We haven't heard anything yet.
The hour is getting late.
My friend has authorized me to reveal that he has several chickens, a rooster, a duck, and a used goat to facilitate this transfer of information.

Thank you, Sir. Or whatever.

Sounds like you should direct your friend to the Cooking with chefist thread. He has most of the key ingredients for stuffing a Christmas camel.

http://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=8053.msg1136162#msg1136162

[Walks_At_Night]

Sounds like you should direct your friend to the Cooking with chefist thread. He has most of the key ingredients for stuffing a Christmas camel.

My favorite part was "Broil in large oven until brown"   

[crankshaft]

My friend just wants to know if richard c hoagland is having a live show tonight.

And he is unwilling to part with any of his camels.

I might be able to convince him to part with a toe or two, but that's about it on such short notice.

[Morgus]

Does richard c hoagland have a live show tonight?
It's very hard to find any information on the internets concerning that. And his website is a disaster.
I am new here.
I am asking for a friend.
thank you

From Hoagie's OSOM website it appears he has plans for live shows tonight and tomorrow. 
But of course we never know for sure until the last minute, since he might have SKYPE issues or something again...

[trostol]

wonder if he will go into the fact that much of the Christmas time events were stolen by the christians

[Morgus]

Hoagie managed to make it on LIVE tonight!
Though we still have to see if his guests have no SKYPE problems later on...

[Dr. MD MD]

Hoagie managed to make it on LIVE tonight!
Though we still have to see if his guests have no SKYPE problems later on...

Can you provide a link?

[Morgus]

Hoagie has audio level problems again, his voice is OK but his guest is way too low to hear!

[Étouffée]

Ho Ho Ho,
Merrie Hoagland, live!

(or it may be an undigested bit of beef, a blot of mustard, a crumb of cheese, a fragment of underdone potato)

[Morgus]

Can you provide a link?

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/tosom/2017/12/24/the-pentagons-2017-ufo-study-revelations-what-do-they-really-mean

[Dr. MD MD]

http://www.blogtalkradio.com/tosom/2017/12/24/the-pentagons-2017-ufo-study-revelations-what-do-they-really-mean

It's like he's holding a mic up to his iPad speaker. I can't hear him. Fuck it!  :

[Étouffée]

Of all the times for Hoagie to shut up and actually listen to a guest, the audio level is subwoofwoof.

[Morgus]

It's like he's holding a mic up to his iPad speaker. I can't hear him. Fuck it!  :

I have to turn my amplifier up to max volume to barely hear the guest and even then his audio sounds squeaky.
But then when Hoagie talks it blasts my eardrums at that volume!