Missing Malaysian Airlines Flight and Speculation

[Up All Night]

The officials are saying that their search for MH 370 is in one of the remotest parts of the ocean, and rightly so, but, the remotest point in the ocean is Point Nemo, in the South Pacific Ocean, also known as the Oceanic pole of inaccessibility, that is the place in the ocean that is farthest from land, or 1,670 miles from the nearest land. Point Nemo is in the middle of an area of 8,650,778 sq mi of ocean, larger than the entire former Soviet Union.

48°52.6′S 123°23.6′W

[Jackstar]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584123/Revealed-Malaysian-Airlines-pilot-high-security-US-base-Diego-Garcia-programmed-homemade-flight-simulator-deleted-data-just-taking-control-missing-plane.html


I honestly can't figure out what the big pictures of Diego Garcia in the middle of this article indicate, but maybe you guys all can.

[FightTheFuture]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584123/Revealed-Malaysian-Airlines-pilot-high-security-US-base-Diego-Garcia-programmed-homemade-flight-simulator-deleted-data-just-taking-control-missing-plane.html


I honestly can't figure out what the big pictures of Diego Garcia in the middle of this article indicate, but maybe you guys all can.

I believe, at one time, there was a theory floated that involved the 777 landing on DG. The picture is just to acquaint folks with it`s appearance.

[Jackstar]

"Malaysia announced earlier this week that a mathematical analysis of the final known satellite signals from the plane shows that it crashed in the sea, but so far there was no physical evidence."

Let's Enhance

I simply cannot get enough of this story. It is way better than any of the recent Bond films.

[Uncle Duke]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2584123/Revealed-Malaysian-Airlines-pilot-high-security-US-base-Diego-Garcia-programmed-homemade-flight-simulator-deleted-data-just-taking-control-missing-plane.html


I honestly can't figure out what the big pictures of Diego Garcia in the middle of this article indicate, but maybe you guys all can.

If this guy had data on DG, I'd be more concerned about him considering it a target for some type of attack.  USAF bombers frequently deploy to DG, and I think there are Sealift Command pre-positioned cargo ships full of war provisions based there as well.  Great place to strike if you are planning an attack, hit a UK owned island full of US military equipment/personnel.

Would be interesting to know the airmiles distance from DG to the southern track the airliner is believed to have taken and the suspected inpact area west of Oz. 

[VtaGeezer]

The clusterfuck continues...today the search area was shifted 800 miles from all those "debris" sightings after the Malaysians came up with "new" radar data showing the plane was going faster than they guessed so ran out of fuel sooner.  I'm beginning to think the Malaysian govt is fogging it up intentionally in some perverse face-saving game, and that's also why their shifting blame to the pilot.

[VtaGeezer]

Call it off.  It's turned to hysteria.  It's an empathy kabuki with tax dollars. They're spending millions to collect ocean trash.  Bring all the planes and ships home.  They're all dead.  The plane is 3 miles underwater and they don't have a clue where. Let the Malaysians go broke searching.

[Evil Twin Of Zen]

what are the Boeing engineers saying? all i'm hearing is bs. how is anyone going to believe reports based on comments from unnamed sources. what are the Boeing engineers saying?
it could take years to find the wreck even after finding surface structural debris. who are the individuals doing the investigation? what is their track record? who do they answer too? why does the state of radar data keep changing?
personally i think the biggest roadblock to getting some real facts are the lawyers. the money involved in the Boeing 777 series as well as the 787 is huge. i'm speaking total worth including support corporations and end users. it's a big  chunk of the industry. someone is going to be paying for this no matter what or who caused the crash.
the other roadblock would be any information held by military sources..... all of them.
oh and yeah.... international aviation crash investigators often do not get along well.


.....just another rambling of Evil Twin of Zen

[Uncle Duke]

what are the Boeing engineers saying? all i'm hearing is bs. how is anyone going to believe reports based on comments from unnamed sources. what are the Boeing engineers saying?
it could take years to find the wreck even after finding surface structural debris. who are the individuals doing the investigation? what is their track record? who do they answer too? why does the state of radar data keep changing?
personally i think the biggest roadblock to getting some real facts are the lawyers. the money involved in the Boeing 777 series as well as the 787 is huge. i'm speaking total worth including support corporations and end users. it's a big  chunk of the industry. someone is going to be paying for this no matter what or who caused the crash.
the other roadblock would be any information held by military sources..... all of them.
oh and yeah.... international aviation crash investigators often do not get along well.


.....just another rambling of Evil Twin of Zen

what are the Boeing engineers saying?

The last people you want to hear from are the guys from Boeing, they are so liability conscious they are more interested in pointing fingers than determining the true cause of a mishap.  And to be fair, it's not just Boeing, it's all the manufacturers of commercial aircraft and aircraft systems.  If you want to see this in action, attend an NTSB hearing on a mishap.  Their hearings are open to the public, and are a real eye opener.  It's not unheard of for an NTSB hearing to conclude with no cause of a mishap being identified.   

oh and yeah.... international aviation crash investigators often do not get along well.

My experience has been quite the opposite.  Such issues usually are the result of jurisdictional disputes.  Anytime there is an international mishap investigation, there is no doubt who the lead nation is in the effort.  You play by their rules or go home.  As a retired DoD engineer and mishap investigator, I found our NTSB, and to a lesser extent, the FAA to be more challenging to work with than the Canadians, Brits, or Germans.  Of course those are all first-world nations, I never had to work with smaller and/or less technically developed countries.

[VtaGeezer]

An incident occurred on an Egypt Air 777 at the gate in Cairo a couple years that burned a 3 ft hole right through the skin at the cockpit.  This was mentioned in the early days of the MH370 mystery but nothing since. FAA required changing the hose design...did the fix get to the Malaysian 777's?

[Up All Night]

Chinese ship searching for Jet Detects 'Pulse'

http://www.reuters.com/article/2014/04/05/us-malaysia-airlines-idUSBREA3308J20140405

A Chinese ship searching for missing Malaysia Airlines Flight 370 has detected a "pulse" signal in the Indian Ocean, China's state news agencies CCTV and Xinhua said Saturday, but Australian and U.S. officials could not verify the pulses are connected to the missing flight.


20 years from now.... I can hear something...

R.I.P. -- all the souls on MH370

[attachimg=1]

[VtaGeezer]

Funny how they just happened to be searching hundreds of miles from the search area and heard something.  I think a submarine with a towed array picked up the ping from quite a distance and told them where to look. 

[Up All Night]

Funny how they just happened to be searching hundreds of miles from the search area and heard something.  I think a submarine with a towed array picked up the ping from quite a distance and told them where to look.

You're probably right, but, the submariners had help

[Uncle Duke]

Funny how they just happened to be searching hundreds of miles from the search area and heard something.  I think a submarine with a towed array picked up the ping from quite a distance and told them where to look.

We know HMS Tireless, a RN nuclear "hunter-killer" sub, is now in the area and helping search.  Stands to reason Tireless would have far superior under water search capability than the tanker, ice breaker, mechant vessels, and other ships involved to date.

[George Drooly]

Whatever the cover-up story is, it sure is taking them a long to come up with it. They should plan ahead, like Noory.

[Yorkshire pud]

I find it a bit depressing that the view by some is that there's one big cover up. There's been a few comments about Diego Garcia, and some bollox as to the fuel dumps (which would be underground) being blown up. Question is, why? DG is also not a top secret restricted area, it's an emergency and routine stopping off point for (light) aircraft in that part of the world. The pilot wouldn't need to practice on MS FS to find it, he'd already have the ability (and far more ability) from the real 777 cockpit. And if he did, what for? Why attack a remote island that would be off the radar (no punn intended), when he could make a far bigger splash in something more public?

There's still some persistance in suggesting because an aircraft might go to 45000 feet, the passengers would asphyxiate, no they won't, because the aircraft is pressurised to 8000 feet, whether it's at 20000, 30000 or 40000 feet. Concorde flew at 60000 feet, and the passengers didn't die due to lack of oxygen or more accurately air pressure. It won't break apart, it might not fly very well at 45000 because of aerodynamic reasons, but not because of structural. I don't know what it's absolute maximum ceiling is, but 45000 ish sounds reasonable.

[wr250]

There's still some persistance in suggesting because an aircraft might go to 45000 feet, the passengers would asphyxiate, no they won't, because the aircraft is pressurised to 8000 feet, whether it's at 20000, 30000 or 40000 feet. Concorde flew at 60000 feet, and the passengers didn't die due to lack of oxygen or more accurately air pressure. It won't break apart, it might not fly very well at 45000 because of aerodynamic reasons, but not because of structural. I don't know what it's absolute maximum ceiling is, but 45000 ish sounds reasonable.

if there was an electrical fire, and the crew pulled mains in a attempt to to extinguish it, the cabin pressure may well drop to ambient, due to pump failure (either fire or mans being pulled). the reports i read state the plane could fly no higher than 43,000' due to load and weight. going as high as it could might extinguish fire if the cabin pressure is ambient, due to lack of oxygen. other reports had the plane drop back to 10,000' as well.
there are so many reports that its confusing.

[Yorkshire pud]

if there was an electrical fire, and the crew pulled mains in a attempt to to extinguish it, the cabin pressure may well drop to ambient, due to pump failure (either fire or mans being pulled). the reports i read state the plane could fly no higher than 43,000' due to load and weight. going as high as it could might extinguish fire if the cabin pressure is ambient, due to lack of oxygen. other reports had the plane drop back to 10,000' as well.
there are so many reports that its confusing.

Without knowing the dynamics of it, I guess it's plausible...

BUT, no mayday? If a crew has a major failure that could result in loss of aircraft they would send a mayday. Which points to a deliberate (and if the reports of it flying into southern Indian Ocean airspace is correct then that is the case) act of either a hijacking that didn't go to plan, or the crew had some nefarious reasons that we don't yet know of. On another forum I'm a member of (aircraft based) a current aerospace engineer with qualifications longer than his arm has posted a rebuttal of some conspiracy theory that someone else had posted from elsewhere. He's quite 'forthright' because he doesn't suffer fools and has no time for crap spouted by the ignorant. The initial theory is in italics, his reply in straight text.

Someone pointed me at this piece and asked me to comment, so FWIW here is my analysis:

Why does no one mention the Indian Oceans most advanced and secure air base, the stationary Aircraft Carrier located south of the southern tip of India called Diego Garcia?
Not a peep. Not even an indication of a US managed military installation that monitors everything in this war region.
In fact the best old metaphor regarding the lack of reference to this location is “The Silence Is Deafening.”

The base at DG is primarily a US Navy base with support facilities, prepositioning ships (ships loaded with tanks, personnel carriers, artillery, trucks, Hummers, helicopters, hand weapons, ammunition, filed hospitals, fuel, spares, food & water for an army light division sufficient for two weeks of warfare) plus base facilities for visiting US Navy cruisers and destroyers. There is an airport which normally hosts maritime search and ASW aircraft (p3s and P8s), a couple of B52s (for historical reasons, mainly) and that’s about it. There are rarely any fighters stationed there in peacetime. It has a small fuel dump located safely away from anything fragile. It does have extensive radar and radio monitoring facilities, but nothing that unusual for a remote base. DG is actually available as an emergency landing ground for civil ETOPS aircraft â€" it’s existence allows twin-engined aircraft to cross the indian ocean to Australia.


Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah prepared and practised with his home flight simulator and had determined the maximum speed and angle of decent the Boeing 777 could withstand.

Why use a MS Flight Sim for this? It won’t be accurate and all the data the pilot needs is in the flight manual.

As soon as the flight reached the extent of the Malaysian radar capability, when he knew they would no longer expect to see his radar signal, he wished the ground crews good night.
Well he gave a normal “goodnight” hand-off message, and the collective view is that it was the co-pilot, but never mind.

He then turned off one tracking device, waited to see if anyone responded or raised alarm for 15 minutes, then turned off all communication devices.

No one who is familiar with aviation would call it a “tracking device” â€" it’s a transponder.

He locked the cabin door to prevent anyone from entering after asking his co-pilot to get him a drink or check on a system outside of the cockpit.

The captain would never send the co-pilot for a drink (they’d call a flight attendant), and the co-pilot would never leave the cockpit at a time when the aircraft was handing over from one Area Control to another â€" procedures don’t allow it.

The Captain then immediately turned the plane southwest into a know flight path and climbed to over 40,000 ft, the maximum structural capability of the Boeing 777.

The 777 is capable of flying very much higher than 40,000 feet â€" it can’t achieve the required power and manoeuvring margins to be certified for planned operation much above this, but that’s a very different thing. The limitation is aerodynamic, not structural (another indication that the author’s expertise is “questionable”).

He put on the pilot supplied air mask and kept the plane at over 40,000 ft until he was certain all the passengers and crew, including his co-pilot, were asphyxiated.

Flying at 40,000 feet the cabin conditioning system would easily maintain a 10,000ft cabin altitude, and that won’t asphyxiate anyone. He’d have to actually depressurise the aeroplane to achieve that, and if this was his plan he’d actually drop down to about 25,000 feet to make his own experience (using an O2 mask) rather more survivable. The cabin oxygen masks would deploy, but the aircraft only carries enough passenger oxygen for about 20 minutes, so 30-40mins would be enough to kill everyone else on board.

From his flight simulator experimentation he had already determined the precise coordinates where he would initiate his next action. To bring the plane down at the maximum speed and maximum angle of decent to make a direct hit on the fuel storage tanks at Diego Garcia.

Why does he need to use MS Flight Simulator for this? The aeroplane has a modern ring-laser-gyro inertial navigation system with GPS drift correction, and the full details of the airport at DG will be in the book of approach plates carried in the aeroplane â€" remember that DG is an official diversion airfield for ETOPS aircraft, and even a private pilot will find its approach plate published in the Pooleys Guides for the indian ocean region. So the navigation task is trivial.  The fuel dump at DG isn’t exactly hidden (go look on google earth!) and no particular precision planning is required to tent-peg an airliner onto it. Another indication that the author isn’t exactly an expert in this field.

As he initiated this direct course of action the American Military had not been concerned with the radar blip of this flight at 40,000 plus feet. They monitor vessels and flights which appear to be a threat or are invading their space. However they were suddenly brought into complete attention as their warning systems set off alarms. The base at Diego Garcia attempted to make radio contact and immediately dispatching interceptors.  Knowing full well this was an imminent threat, having no time to debate the issue and recognizing the aircraft was operating in what was basically ‘stealth’ mode, uncommunicative, the plane was shot out of the sky.
[…]
The most powerful radar systems in the region are at Diego Garcia.

There’s lots of rubbish being talked about radar tracking. Even a powerful primary surveillance radar (PSR) can’t defeat the laws of geometry, and the radar horizon for an aeroplane at (say) 35,000 feet is less than 250 miles. DG is a couple of thousand miles from *everywhere* so it’s comparative child’s play  to fly to a point (say) 300 miles out, turn towards the target and descend to remain below radar coverage until close in. Even if he didn’t descend the DG radar would see him at (say) 250 miles and then spend 10-15 minutes trying to contact him. By this stage the aeroplane (travelling at 600mph) is within 120 miles, and is only 15 minutes from impact. Their ability to scramble a fighter (which they almost certainly didn’t have) from a base with no air defence function and no alert status in time to intercept this aircraft would be pretty minimal.

Frankly it doesn’t stand any sort of scrutiny, so it’s just another conspiracy dick making a prat of himself.

[Jackstar]

That rebuttal is full of even more holes than that laughable "theory." Largely irrelevant, given that the U.S. Navy stole the plane before they landed it at Diego Garcia without shooting it down, but whatever.

[Yorkshire pud]

That rebuttal is full of even more holes than that laughable "theory." Largely irrelevant, given that the U.S. Navy stole the plane before they landed it at Diego Garcia without shooting it down, but whatever.

Oh? Please point out the holes, and the 'facts' that support your 'theory'... Incidentally, (and trust me on this) the writer is a very highly experienced aircraft engineer. He has worked on several high tech aircraft and as such in his capacity seconded to various allied airforces all over the world. So when he states something of a particular airbase, it's because he's been there. If he states the certain capabilities of various aircraft, it's because he knows what it is he's talking about.. Regrettably, the same cannot be said about Conspiracy theorists.

[West of the Rockies]

Wait, Yorkie... you expect people to use critical thinking skills when discussing such a topic?

[Yorkshire pud]

Wait, Yorkie... you expect people to use critical thinking skills when discussing such a topic?

No, but it's fun trying to get them to. I've yet to see a retraction or apology from a CT on (any given subject that involves 'them', or 'they) when they're comprehensively proven wrong. A fave topic is chemtrails on YT. Although some go to the trouble of making videos explaining how and why vapour trails and how turbines work to the nth degree, the CT's still say that the person making said video is being paid by the government to undermine 'the truth'. On that score 25% of everyone who uses the net is being paid by 'them'. When I need cheering up I read the latest CT on whatever it might be this week, and know instinctively I'm not going to be disappointed, although I do despair at some of the human race's ability to accept anything but bollox that some 'researcher' doing 'work' has posted.

[Uncle Duke]

Without knowing the dynamics of it, I guess it's plausible...

BUT, no mayday? If a crew has a major failure that could result in loss of aircraft they would send a mayday. Which points to a deliberate (and if the reports of it flying into southern Indian Ocean airspace is correct then that is the case) act of either a hijacking that didn't go to plan, or the crew had some nefarious reasons that we don't yet know of. On another forum I'm a member of (aircraft based) a current aerospace engineer with qualifications longer than his arm has posted a rebuttal of some conspiracy theory that someone else had posted from elsewhere. He's quite 'forthright' because he doesn't suffer fools and has no time for crap spouted by the ignorant. The initial theory is in italics, his reply in straight text.

Someone pointed me at this piece and asked me to comment, so FWIW here is my analysis:

Why does no one mention the Indian Oceans most advanced and secure air base, the stationary Aircraft Carrier located south of the southern tip of India called Diego Garcia?
Not a peep. Not even an indication of a US managed military installation that monitors everything in this war region.
In fact the best old metaphor regarding the lack of reference to this location is “The Silence Is Deafening.”

The base at DG is primarily a US Navy base with support facilities, prepositioning ships (ships loaded with tanks, personnel carriers, artillery, trucks, Hummers, helicopters, hand weapons, ammunition, filed hospitals, fuel, spares, food & water for an army light division sufficient for two weeks of warfare) plus base facilities for visiting US Navy cruisers and destroyers. There is an airport which normally hosts maritime search and ASW aircraft (p3s and P8s), a couple of B52s (for historical reasons, mainly) and that’s about it. There are rarely any fighters stationed there in peacetime. It has a small fuel dump located safely away from anything fragile. It does have extensive radar and radio monitoring facilities, but nothing that unusual for a remote base. DG is actually available as an emergency landing ground for civil ETOPS aircraft â€" it’s existence allows twin-engined aircraft to cross the indian ocean to Australia.


Captain Zaharie Ahmad Shah prepared and practised with his home flight simulator and had determined the maximum speed and angle of decent the Boeing 777 could withstand.

Why use a MS Flight Sim for this? It won’t be accurate and all the data the pilot needs is in the flight manual.

As soon as the flight reached the extent of the Malaysian radar capability, when he knew they would no longer expect to see his radar signal, he wished the ground crews good night.
Well he gave a normal “goodnight” hand-off message, and the collective view is that it was the co-pilot, but never mind.

He then turned off one tracking device, waited to see if anyone responded or raised alarm for 15 minutes, then turned off all communication devices.

No one who is familiar with aviation would call it a “tracking device” â€" it’s a transponder.

He locked the cabin door to prevent anyone from entering after asking his co-pilot to get him a drink or check on a system outside of the cockpit.

The captain would never send the co-pilot for a drink (they’d call a flight attendant), and the co-pilot would never leave the cockpit at a time when the aircraft was handing over from one Area Control to another â€" procedures don’t allow it.

The Captain then immediately turned the plane southwest into a know flight path and climbed to over 40,000 ft, the maximum structural capability of the Boeing 777.

The 777 is capable of flying very much higher than 40,000 feet â€" it can’t achieve the required power and manoeuvring margins to be certified for planned operation much above this, but that’s a very different thing. The limitation is aerodynamic, not structural (another indication that the author’s expertise is “questionable”).

He put on the pilot supplied air mask and kept the plane at over 40,000 ft until he was certain all the passengers and crew, including his co-pilot, were asphyxiated.

Flying at 40,000 feet the cabin conditioning system would easily maintain a 10,000ft cabin altitude, and that won’t asphyxiate anyone. He’d have to actually depressurise the aeroplane to achieve that, and if this was his plan he’d actually drop down to about 25,000 feet to make his own experience (using an O2 mask) rather more survivable. The cabin oxygen masks would deploy, but the aircraft only carries enough passenger oxygen for about 20 minutes, so 30-40mins would be enough to kill everyone else on board.

From his flight simulator experimentation he had already determined the precise coordinates where he would initiate his next action. To bring the plane down at the maximum speed and maximum angle of decent to make a direct hit on the fuel storage tanks at Diego Garcia.

Why does he need to use MS Flight Simulator for this? The aeroplane has a modern ring-laser-gyro inertial navigation system with GPS drift correction, and the full details of the airport at DG will be in the book of approach plates carried in the aeroplane â€" remember that DG is an official diversion airfield for ETOPS aircraft, and even a private pilot will find its approach plate published in the Pooleys Guides for the indian ocean region. So the navigation task is trivial.  The fuel dump at DG isn’t exactly hidden (go look on google earth!) and no particular precision planning is required to tent-peg an airliner onto it. Another indication that the author isn’t exactly an expert in this field.

As he initiated this direct course of action the American Military had not been concerned with the radar blip of this flight at 40,000 plus feet. They monitor vessels and flights which appear to be a threat or are invading their space. However they were suddenly brought into complete attention as their warning systems set off alarms. The base at Diego Garcia attempted to make radio contact and immediately dispatching interceptors.  Knowing full well this was an imminent threat, having no time to debate the issue and recognizing the aircraft was operating in what was basically ‘stealth’ mode, uncommunicative, the plane was shot out of the sky.
[…]
The most powerful radar systems in the region are at Diego Garcia.

There’s lots of rubbish being talked about radar tracking. Even a powerful primary surveillance radar (PSR) can’t defeat the laws of geometry, and the radar horizon for an aeroplane at (say) 35,000 feet is less than 250 miles. DG is a couple of thousand miles from *everywhere* so it’s comparative child’s play  to fly to a point (say) 300 miles out, turn towards the target and descend to remain below radar coverage until close in. Even if he didn’t descend the DG radar would see him at (say) 250 miles and then spend 10-15 minutes trying to contact him. By this stage the aeroplane (travelling at 600mph) is within 120 miles, and is only 15 minutes from impact. Their ability to scramble a fighter (which they almost certainly didn’t have) from a base with no air defence function and no alert status in time to intercept this aircraft would be pretty minimal.

Frankly it doesn’t stand any sort of scrutiny, so it’s just another conspiracy dick making a prat of himself.

Don't know if any US combat a/c are are actually stationed permanently at DG, but I know they do deploy to the island frequently.  B-1 and B-2 are the most common, in fact the USAF spent a good chunk of change to establish the specialized hanger/maintenance facilites required for the B-2. 

I also wondered about how close the 777 came to DG, and whether it might have been picked up on the DG radar.  Silence on the part of the DoD is no surprise, however as I'm sure they do not care to advertise the range and capability of their radar systems on DG.

[Yorkshire pud]

That rebuttal is full of even more holes than that laughable "theory." Largely irrelevant, given that the U.S. Navy stole the plane before they landed it at Diego Garcia without shooting it down, but whatever.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26950387

Presumably if this signal proves to be the lost airliner, it will suggest your unsubstantiated crap, sorry, facts about it being on DG (flown there by the U.S. Navy) has erm, holes in it? I'm still waiting for you to unravel the earlier post that was transcribed from an aircraft engineer. The silence is deafening.  :

[albrecht]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-26950387

Presumably if this signal proves to be the lost airliner, it will suggest your unsubstantiated crap, sorry, facts about it being on DG (flown there by the U.S. Navy) has erm, holes in it? I'm still waiting for you to unravel the earlier post that was transcribed from an aircraft engineer. The silence is deafening.  :

I'm still thinking that all the new information and updated theories and evidence release by various governments are dis-info and a cover-up. I think someone shot it down or it was suicide-by-pilot. There has been high tension in the region between the various countries and maybe it was shot down by accident. Or it was taken over and was intended for a 911 type event- say into the Petronas Towers and shot down. The hackability of the auto-pilot system is interesting but I say more likely shot down and governments scrambling to cover it up so tensions/anger doesn't rise even more in the region.

[Jackstar]

I'm still waiting for you to unravel the earlier post that was transcribed from an aircraft engineer.

I came to realize that you are an even bigger idiot than he. Believe whatever kind of bullshit corporate propaganda you want--I do not care about which lies you tell yourself.

[Yorkshire pud]

I came to realize that you are an even bigger idiot than he. Believe whatever kind of bullshit corporate propaganda you want--I do not care about which lies you tell yourself.

It's gratifying that you've defaulted to the stereotypical conspiracy theorist model. Don't actually have any evidence of anything but dismiss anything that doesn't support your initial un-substantiated fairy tale. You could have professionals around the block explaining why something did or didn't happen and if it didn't fit your belief, you'd call them idiots. Open minded?

Anyway you've nothing to support what you claim so we must assume you have gleaned your story off a CT website that also has no evidence.

[Jackstar]

^^!^^ slander

[wr250]

It's gratifying that you've defaulted to the stereotypical conspiracy theorist model. Don't actually have any evidence of anything but dismiss anything that doesn't support your initial un-substantiated fairy tale. You could have professionals around the block explaining why something did or didn't happen and if it didn't fit your belief, you'd call them idiots. Open minded?

Anyway you've nothing to support what you claim so we must assume you have gleaned your story off a CT website that also has no evidence.

i prefer my portals/sasquatch/mothership ufo/farrakhan angle myself.

[Juan]

I just heard a new angle.  First, the engines on the plane were made by Mercedes Benz.  I never understood what that had to do with anything, but the proponent made a great deal over it.  Second, the plane was carrying 100-million dollars worth of gold bars.  And "they" landed the plane on a ship. Perhaps with space alien help.