Bush lied, but maybe not about this

[Juan]

You know the mantra - Bush lied, people died.  Bush lied about WMDs.
How is it then, that, according to the Associated Press, ISIS has seized old rockets filled with Sarin nerve gas?  If they weren't there, how are they there?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iraq-says-terrorists-seize-chemical-weapons-site

UNITED NATIONS (AP) â€" The Islamic State extremist group has taken control of a vast former chemical weapons facility northwest of Baghdad, where remnants of 2,500 degraded chemical rockets filled decades ago with the deadly nerve agent sarin are stored along with other chemical warfare agents, Iraq said in a letter circulated Tuesday at the United Nations.

[NowhereInTime]

You know the mantra - Bush lied, people died.  Bush lied about WMDs.
How is it then, that, according to the Associated Press, ISIS has seized old rockets filled with Sarin nerve gas?  If they weren't there, how are they there?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iraq-says-terrorists-seize-chemical-weapons-site

Syria. Remember ISIS is Islamic State in Iraq and Syria.  Chances are real good those are some of al-Assad's toys they grabbed.

[Yorkshire pud]

You know the mantra - Bush lied, people died.  Bush lied about WMDs.
How is it then, that, according to the Associated Press, ISIS has seized old rockets filled with Sarin nerve gas?  If they weren't there, how are they there?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iraq-says-terrorists-seize-chemical-weapons-site

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-28229411

Britain sold chemicals and components to Syria that ended up being used in the manufacture of the deadly nerve agent sarin, BBC Newsnight can reveal.

A leaked Foreign Office document says they were supplied in the mid-1980s.

Ministers will confirm within days that UK firms provided the materials and that Syria has admitted they played a role in its chemical weapons programme.

Oh dear.... Shitteth about to hit the fan methinks.

[albrecht]

Yeah, rumors at the time said that Iraq moved some of his chemical weapons to fellow Baathist in Syria. There are is that decommissioning area that ISIS has over run that still had some (so obviously Iraq did have WMD, as the Kurds, and recall the Supergun- sort of like the kind Hitler was trying to build.) Although technically true I think even Sarin isn't a WMD, really. When I think WMD I think something of taking out whole cities, countries, or life as we know it (nuclear bombs, bio-weapons, certain chemical weapons.) I don't think Iraq's, or even Syria's, stockpile was sufficient enough except for tactical use to kill 100's, maybe 1000's, of people- which, of course, is horrible. But they can do the same thing with bullets, or as we often see in the Dark Continent, with machetes.

[Foodlion]

Yeah, rumors at the time said that Iraq moved some of his chemical weapons to fellow Baathist in Syria. There are is that decommissioning area that ISIS has over run that still had some (so obviously Iraq did have WMD, as the Kurds, and recall the Supergun- sort of like the kind Hitler was trying to build.) Although technically true I think even Sarin isn't a WMD, really. When I think WMD I think something of taking out whole cities, countries, or life as we know it (nuclear bombs, bio-weapons, certain chemical weapons.) I don't think Iraq's, or even Syria's, stockpile was sufficient enough except for tactical use to kill 100's, maybe 1000's, of people- which, of course, is horrible. But they can do the same thing with bullets, or as we often see in the Dark Continent, with machetes.

If anyone wants to know the truth, look for and find any of the many US Army NBC (Nuclear, Biological, Chemical) guys that were attached to SF units in IRAQ. Interview them about their whereabouts during the OIF in Iraq.

Just by chance I came across two, both attached to my unit at separate times, and BOTH saying nearly the identical thing. These guys saw the so called "WMDs" they were looking for, and confirmed it with their supplied tools. Their job was to locate, and report to higher. From there, the higher ups took over, and nothing else was ever heard of. One of the guys believes this all went hush-hush, was because the containers appeared to be manufactured in the US.

Now If anyone want's the info to contact these guys, I'd be glade to give my old unit #s and let them try to dig up these 2 NBC guys, and I have zero doubt were lying. That is, if anyone is serious in digging up some dirt.

[Juan]

The nerve gas bombs are in Muthanna - which is in Iraq, not Syria.
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-28222879

There's a photo in the linked article.  The bombs look like WMD to me.

[Quick Karl]

You know the mantra - Bush lied, people died.  Bush lied about WMDs.
How is it then, that, according to the Associated Press, ISIS has seized old rockets filled with Sarin nerve gas?  If they weren't there, how are they there?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iraq-says-terrorists-seize-chemical-weapons-site

C'mon, everyone knows the evil racist Catholics snuck them in just to make Oblunder look bad...

[MagnificentBastard]

How is it then, that, according to the Associated Press, ISIS has seized old rockets filled with Sarin nerve gas?
http://bigstory.ap.org/article/iraq-says-terrorists-seize-chemical-weapons-site

That's an easy one. The Associated Press didn't report that. You just didn't understand the article, which states-

2,500 degraded chemical rockets filled decades ago with the deadly nerve agent sarin. . .

Do you see the little nuance there that you missed the first time? They had Sarin in them at one point. . .decades ago.  "Terrorists" stumbled across a former weapons site that we bombed to fuck and back during Desert Storm in 91, so now there must be some conspiracy because we didn't count that site (which we knew we'd already destroyed, and which contained with material that  "would be very difficult, if not impossible, to use. . . for military purposes") as evidence on wmd's?

That's a strong case you make there. Stupid, but it could probably pull a covered wagon up an incline nonetheless.

[Juan]

I didn't miss it.  The point of the post related to Bush.  When Bush invaded, the gas was not degraded.  I thought that would be obvious, but apparently not.

[Quick Karl]

That's an easy one. The Associated Press didn't report that. You just didn't understand the article, which states-


Do you see the little nuance there that you missed the first time? They had Sarin in them at one point. . .decades ago.  "Terrorists" stumbled across a former weapons site that we bombed to fuck and back during Desert Storm in 91, so now there must be some conspiracy because we didn't count that site (which we knew we'd already destroyed, and which contained with material that  "would be very difficult, if not impossible, to use. . . for military purposes") as evidence on wmd's?

That's a strong case you make there. Stupid, but it could probably pull a covered wagon up an incline nonetheless.

So lemme get this straight - in your mind, "degraded" in a news article means absolutely inert and totally harmless?....

I know, you're going to call me names now for pointing out the flaw in your attempt to redefine reality to suit your bias - happens to me all the time here...

[Yorkshire pud]

So lemme get this straight - in your mind, "degraded" in a news article means absolutely inert and totally harmless?....

No; he didn't say that you fucking stupid illiterate fuck. He quoted:

"would be very difficult, if not impossible, to use. . . for military purposes"

I know, you're going to call me names now for pointing out the flaw in your attempt to redefine reality to suit your bias - happens to me all the time here...

Hey!! You got something right at last. Had to happen eventually didn't it qunt?

[Mind Flayer Monk]

So lemme get this straight - in your mind, "degraded" in a news article means absolutely inert and totally harmless?....

I know, you're going to call me names now for pointing out the flaw in your attempt to redefine reality to suit your bias - happens to me all the time here...

The line right after that in the link says:
"It said the tabun-filled containers were all treated with decontamination solution and likely no longer contain any agent, but "the residue of this decontamination would contain cyanides, which would still be a hazard."

[albrecht]

The line right after that in the link says:
"It said the tabun-filled containers were all treated with decontamination solution and likely no longer contain any agent, but "the residue of this decontamination would contain cyanides, which would still be a hazard."

If old mystery movies taught me anything cyanide is still pretty dangerous, maybe the Obama supported Sunni ISIS will try to slip it in the canteens of opposing Shite forces?

[Mind Flayer Monk]

If old mystery movies taught me anything cyanide is still pretty dangerous, maybe the Obama supported Sunni ISIS will try to slip it in the canteens of opposing Shite forces?

I'm not sure how much there was, but it seems like it would be more profitable to sell if to gold miners (for leeching) and buy some bullets. Or video cameras. Or fake twitter followers.

[b_dubb]

We invaded Iraq on the premise that Saddam was actively trying to create nuclear weapons from yellowcake uranium. If we went to war with every country that had sarin we'd have to start drafting 5 year olds.

[albrecht]

We invaded Iraq on the premise that Saddam was actively trying to create nuclear weapons from yellowcake uranium. If we went to war with every country that had sarin we'd have to start drafting 5 year olds.

Hey, we gotta a bunch swarming our border now under the Obama "dreamer" open-border policy- sign em up!!

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

The line right after that in the link says:
"It said the tabun-filled containers were all treated with decontamination solution and likely no longer contain any agent, but "the residue of this decontamination would contain cyanides, which would still be a hazard."

In fairness to Karl, you can't expect him to read news links and understand them unless they have a coloring book version.

Happens all the time here.

[Quick Karl]

In fairness to Karl, you can't expect him to read news links and understand them unless they have a coloring book version.

Happens all the time here.

So in your kindergarten-genius mind, 'likely" means "definitely not", and there is no chance whatsoever that the author is biASSED like yourself?

Oh wait...

It might make you look like less of an obsessed asshole if you spent your time more constructively?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

It might make you look like less of an obsessed asshole if you spent your time more constructively?

Like punching holes in a piece of paper with pieces of a lead-based alloy?

[Quick Karl]

Like punching holes in a piece of paper with pieces of a lead-based alloy?

So, my hobby is really bugging you that bad? I mean, think about that for a minute - it doesn't bother me that you spend your time being an asshole.

I think that secretly you wish you had a spine, and my avatar and hobby makes you feel insignificant, so you come here and pretend your thoughts mean something. Hey, if that's all you got, who am I to judge?

[DigitalPigSnuggler]

I think that

There you go again

[MagnificentBastard]

So lemme get this straight - in your mind, "degraded" in a news article means absolutely inert and totally harmless?....

Who gives a shit whether this destroyed site and the useless scrap found within was "absolutely inert and totally harmless", Genius? Our justification for invading Iraq was that Saddam possessed and was manufacturing weapons of mass destruction. Remains of a facility that we had bombed a decade earlier gives no evidence for that justification.

This isn't a smoking gun here. This is nothing.

[NowhereInTime]

So in your kindergarten-genius mind, 'likely" means "definitely not", and there is no chance whatsoever that the author is biASSED like yourself?

Oh wait...

It might make you look like less of an obsessed asshole if you spent your time more constructively?

The quick Karl methodology:

"Evade,bluster, bluster, BLOVIATE, evade, bluster, insult, bluster, insult some more, then cry about being insulted."

I've seen fresher repeats on ME TV. (check your local listings)

[Avi]

We invaded Iraq on the premise that Saddam was actively trying to create nuclear weapons from yellowcake uranium.

No, you didn't. The invasion of Iraq was carried out for a multitude of purposes never discussed publicly. The "international relations" soap opera shown on the nightly news is largely cooked up for consumption by the masses and agreed to, in advance, by the participating parties. "Look, well go on the tv and say, 'Blah, blah, blah,'" about you while we work on our true objectives. Then, you'll respond, "Yadda, yadda, yadda," and no one will be the wiser.

The ultimate end game, which certainly did not involve Osama, much to the American public's consternation, was -  under the Shrub Bush/Haliburton administration - to use Iraq and Afghanistan (look at a map) as a launching pad to bring a pipeline from the Central Asian Republics, most importantly leaving out Uncle Joe, to the West. This is why the Europeans (especially the former Soviet bloc countries threatened with utility outages by Pooty-Poot) were on board in the Coalition of the Willing (kind of a stupid phrase, but it tested well for the policy wonks). My own nation, which is always chosen to play the part of nefarious ring-leader, actually opposed the plan. Although it would be helpful to use Iraq as a staging and refueling ground for destruction of Iranian reactors and for discouragement of interference with any new pipelines, we did not think Bush had the wherewithal to control the situation on the ground once Saddam was eliminated, nor could he keep Iran out of the picture. Of course, it would have given the Chinese a black eye, because they were/are in the area, making agreements with every tin pot dictator, including Iran, to service the giant, Chinese energy need as well. If there's going to be a pipeline, the Chinese are trying to make an offer for it that can't be refused. Here, the initial purpose of the USA was to threaten the relatively more stable Central Asian Republics (who do you think is supplying the Uighurs?) with upheaval, i.e., we'll get someone with whom we can do bidness in power, and if you're nice, Uncle Sugar will keep you in power. The Chinese are stepping up their game, not because they are wily, but simply because they lack history in the area and are willing to pay fulsomely and in advance for what they want. They'll learn.

The Haliburton/CIA administration kind of lost steam once the NG discoveries were made in the Dakotas and Texas, and the Canadian oil shale became productive, leading to plans for an oil pipeline from an actually friendly country, as well as industrial fracking on a large scale. Comparatively, the priorities were changed, and Obama inherited a situation in which he feels he, too, can appease the tin pot dictators since the USA doesn't need them so much anymore. After creating a complete shit-storm, he believes the USA needn't remain to clean up its messes, especially since he got no traction on the Israeli/Fakestinian conflict. The recent Turkey tough-talk is designed to hide the fact that Turkey would have been a key player/benefactor in the pipeline scheme - I doubt they are pleased. It remains to be seen what happens in the gulf states. The USA reinforced its presence there, as a supply-line to the Iraq operations, but also because the large Sunni kingdoms, some of whom have majority Shi-ite populations, are afeared of Iran (look at a map). The 5th Fleet is based in Bahrain, and Iran would dearly love to remove that menace to its ambitions, now that Obama has decided to scale back the ME presence. Certainly, there are those who feel that American blood and treasure should not be further expended on a project that would largely benefit the Europeans and the Chinese, anyway. Still, blowback is a bitch, and there will be plenty to come.

As for WMDs, Iraq's supplies were largely decommissioned in the first Gulf War. Even so, Saddam did scheme to regain what was taken from him, and he was not totally without success, rapidly sending his small trove of goodies out of the country before the USA invasion. His stalling and sleight of hand, was done for this purpose.

[VtaGeezer]

ISIS overran over an old chem weapon depot in Iraq.  The depot is defunct, the chemicals are long gone, perhaps some odd empty or cement-filled CW canisters, shells, bombs remain that the UN and US didn't destroy are lying in the corners.  But never mind facts; a story like this is all some need to blow grossly out of proportion and run with.  Bush didn't lie. He's too fucking stupid to lie. He is a fool and none-too-bright jerk, born into power, who was lied to and manipulated, and he just passed it on to us.  The business about CW going to Syria were never backed up even though Iraqis who'd know were certainly given "special" treatment by Cheney's boys.  Cheney would have killed (even more) for that proof.

[Avi]

The business about CW going to Syria were never backed up even though Iraqis who'd know were certainly given "special" treatment by Cheney's boys.  Cheney would have killed (even more) for that proof.

Well, I know what I know from being in country during both wars with Iraq. My parents are from Mosul, and I speak both Arabic and Kurdish, with appropriately Iraqi dialects, fluently. I never said the 'weapons' went to Syria. On the contrary, some people who could pass themselves off as something they're not, may have diverted them. Don't thank me, I'm a giver. Granted, the idea that Saddam was harboring mass numbers of WMDs is certainly untrue, although that was the rationale cooked up by Bush to cover for what Saddam was hiding and/or printing. Remember the talk about Iraq denying the dollar as most-favored currency status, just before the invasion?

Oddly enough, I did not find Bush to be at all stupid. He gave a very good impression of it on camera, but off, he doesn't even speak with a pronounced Texas accent. I have accurately relayed one of the overriding reasons for the invasion, believe it or not. It has the decided advantage of explaining many bizarre aspects of the whole shebang, e.g., the strange support of Europe, the emphasis on regime change and democracy in Iraq, rather than on Osama, etc. The "Bush was just an idiot with Attila the Hun Cheney at his side," rationale fails to explain very much.

You do touch, unknowingly, on an important aspect of the whole shenanigans, namely the rise of private intelligence/armies. Of course, it makes sense that many of the operatives have military/intelligence backgrounds and the ability to infiltrate these regions under business guises. Unfortunately, their aims do not always square with the aims of the American people. Mercenaries are, when all is said and done, rather mercenary, and they fucked up a lot of shit in light of the fact that they often had superior intelligence due to long-standing (way back to 1991 when they realized the possibilities), illegal or not, trade with the nations under consideration.