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Alex Jones

Started by Frys Girl, April 07, 2009, 08:57:10 PM

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 27, 2015, 10:20:25 AM
I've spent a great deal of time in the UK over the past forty years.  The Brits are no different than any other people, periods of wearing near over-the-top patriotism on their sleeve ebb and flow with times and events.  Curious how old you were in 1982? 

I'm not outraged, terribly or otherwise, at Morgan.  He tried, and failed.  No shame in that.  He's not the first UK TV sensation to come to the US and go tits-up, many people find it's easier being a big fish in a small pond.  The fact he failed at CNN should clearly illustrate, however, the American people didn't much care for what he had to say when he was here, so why would we care now?

That makes two of us then, although I have probably spent a little more time here than you. I was an endearing little rapscallion of 8 in 1982, when dear Margaret was known as Thatcher the Milk Snatcher because she took away our daily little bottle of milk when she was education secretary. I remember it well. I have never seen much sign of patriotism here, we leave that to the Welsh, Irish and Scots who seem to need that sort of thing. That's not to say that we aren't smug bastards who look down our noses a bit at your colonials, 'cos we do, although it is usually more affectionate than anything else.

The big difference between Brits and Americans is our use of irony, which is instinctive, and can upset and confuse Americans who aren't quite so used to it. If you say we are basically the same, then I could not disagree more with you. Just look at any popular comedy show from either country and you will see a huge difference in outlook. We seem to need to portray losers and depressives, while your stuff is much more about wisecracks and success, of various kinds.

qaddisin

Quote from: albrecht on August 27, 2015, 08:39:16 AM
I have weird images of Uri Geller going nuts and shooting up an audience because his spoons wouldn't bend or some old black and white movie in the 30's where the Svengali-like character shocks the rich Hollywood patron by shooting up the the room when the table doesn't rise and Charlie Chan needs to solve the murder.

But yes, guns don't kill people. Crazy, or certain types of, people do, in this case a black, homosexual, social media obsessed, Obama adherent did so. In other cases it is the crazy white guy. More often it is an illegal alien or black gang member. Oddly enough I don't know anyone who has been shot, much less killed, by guns even though many, or most, people I know have them, hunt, etc. Odd that. Clearly it is an object problem, not a demographic or mental one.

Just out of curiosity: do you blame Obama, homosexuals, and immigrants for all of your problems, or just those things you don't feel you can control in your life?

albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 27, 2015, 10:34:44 AM
That makes two of us then, although I have probably spent a little more time here than you. I was an endearing little rapscallion of 8 in 1982, when dear Margaret was known as Thatcher the Milk Snatcher because she took away our daily little bottle of milk when she was education secretary. I remember it well. I have never seen much sign of patriotism here, we leave that to the Welsh, Irish and Scots who seem to need that sort of thing. That's not to say that we aren't smug bastards who look down our noses a bit at your colonials, 'cos we do, although it is usually more affectionate than anything else.

The big difference between Brits and Americans is our use of irony, which is instinctive, and can upset and confuse Americans who aren't quite so used to it. If you say we are basically the same, then I could not disagree more with you. Just look at any popular comedy show from either country and you will see a huge difference in outlook. We seem to need to portray losers and depressives, while your stuff is much more about wisecracks and success, of various kinds.
Having been in the Low Countries during EURO 2000 I would say that some of you Brits exhibited patriotism!  ;) Also, I've noticed a more of a promotion for St.George's Day in the past few years but I think, like Cinco De Mayo here, more of a campaign by breweries to get more sales, maybe?

SredniVashtar

Quote from: albrecht on August 27, 2015, 10:50:07 AM
Having been in the Low Countries during EURO 2000 I would say that some of you Brits exhibited patriotism!  ;) Also, I've noticed a more of a promotion for St.George's Day in the past few years but I think, like Cinco De Mayo here, more of a campaign by breweries to get more sales, maybe?

Football is something else, and you know it!  ;)

We all go a bit loopy then. Anyone wanting to celebrate St George's day looks like an idiot. St Patrick's day is the one everyone goes for.

I will stand on my belief that we are not patriotic. Unless you are well over seventy, when that sort of stuff means something, god knows why.

Uncle Duke

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 27, 2015, 10:34:44 AM
That makes two of us then, although I have probably spent a little more time here than you. I was an endearing little rapscallion of 8 in 1982, when dear Margaret was known as Thatcher the Milk Snatcher because she took away our daily little bottle of milk when she was education secretary. I remember it well. I have never seen much sign of patriotism here, we leave that to the Welsh, Irish and Scots who seem to need that sort of thing. That's not to say that we aren't smug bastards who look down our noses a bit at your colonials, 'cos we do, although it is usually more affectionate than anything else.

The big difference between Brits and Americans is our use of irony, which is instinctive, and can upset and confuse Americans who aren't quite so used to it. If you say we are basically the same, then I could not disagree more with you. Just look at any popular comedy show from either country and you will see a huge difference in outlook. We seem to need to portray losers and depressives, while your stuff is much more about wisecracks and success, of various kinds.

OK that's fair, I can't expect an 8 yr old to remember the over-the-top patriotic fervor that went along with the Falklands War.  At the time, publications in both the US and UK wrote of the overwhelming public displays of support of "Queen and Country", somewhere I still have my "Our Empire Strikes Back" Union Jack button playing on the theme of the then latest "Star Wars" installlment.  Some commentators claimed the patriotism shown in the UK exceeded even that of the US during the Iran hostage crisis.  Sir Lawrence Friedman devoted quite a bit of print to it in Whithall 's "The Official History of the Falklands Conflict", and how that level of  support drove some of the UK's more controversial decisions such as sinking Belgrano and Vulcan attacks.

I never said "we are basically the same", have far too much experience with the Brits to even consider such a statement.  What I did learn, based on real world dealings vice comedic television, is we both accept different doesn't mean wrong and we can work effectively together despite those differences.  Actually, some of those differences can be amusing in the workaday world.  My first trip to the UK (79-80), a colleague asked a nice little old lady in a tea shop if he could get a napkin.  She was clearly both confused and embarassed by the request, and simply replied none were available as she walked away redfaced.   A very nice Canadian lady at the next table quietly explained to my friend he should have asked for a "servette", and that his request had been interpreted as a feminine protection product.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 27, 2015, 12:20:28 PM
Actually, some of those differences can be amusing in the workaday world.  My first trip to the UK (79-80), a colleague asked a nice little old lady in a tea shop if he could get a napkin.  She was clearly both confused and embarassed by the request, and simply replied none were available as she walked away redfaced.   A very nice Canadian lady at the next table quietly explained to my friend he should have asked for a "servette", and that his request had been interpreted as a feminine protection product.

I met a British woman years ago, who had gone completely ballistic because an American man had playfully threatened to "paddle her fanny" for a comment she'd made while they were joking around.  That was when I found out "fanny" means something completely different in the UK than it does in the U.S. I tried to explain it to her, but she was in such an apoplectic rage it didn't get through to her. It was pretty funny.   

Hope you're doing well, Duke!

Uncle Duke

Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on August 27, 2015, 12:52:12 PM
I met a British woman years ago, who had gone completely ballistic because an American man had playfully threatened to "paddle her fanny" for a comment she'd made while they were joking around.  That was when I found out "fanny" means something completely different in the UK than it does in the U.S. I tried to explain it to her, but she was in such an apoplectic rage it didn't get through to her. It was pretty funny.   

Hope you're doing well, Duke!

Been there, kinda.  I brought a roomful of middle-aged Brit engineers into full fledged snickering in the early 90s when I mentioned I had left my fanny pack in my hired car.  Live and learn. ;D

albrecht

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 27, 2015, 11:04:45 AM
Football is something else, and you know it!  ;)

We all go a bit loopy then. Anyone wanting to celebrate St George's day looks like an idiot. St Patrick's day is the one everyone goes for.

I will stand on my belief that we are not patriotic. Unless you are well over seventy, when that sort of stuff means something, god knows why.
My pet theory is that football was invented to let the hoi polloi let off steam and an attempt to suppress nationalism and focus it into sport which, in theory, will be less violent than in wars so that bodies like the EU can grow and countries won't fight each other except on the pitch. Almost by design it is a frustrating game (end in a tie, no result. Low scoring. And you can lose at the last second even after playing a good game) and frustration can lead to violence: either depression (inward focused) or fights (outward focused.) haha

I'm not sure if it the type or class who attend and play or what but I never have see fights at rugby, cricket, etc. And one can't blame "the drink" because I've seen and done lots of drinking at those sports also....

Yorkshire pud

I think SV has summed it up nicely the differences. Although I'd add too that the Falklands party was percieved and still is by some as a vanity thing by Thatcher (who I detested); I disagree on that completely. I think it was a face value episode. Johnny Foreigner tried his luck with a protectorate and found out that when the chips are down, for all our self inflicted problems, we can and will go and play big boys games: Only with big boys rules. I was 19 at the time and the patriotism in the pub, at work, anywhere I went was palpable. A lot of it driven by the press of course but not all.

It's something of an open secret that I'm prouder of being a Yorkshireman than I am English. But that's natural.

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 27, 2015, 12:20:28 PM
OK that's fair, I can't expect an 8 yr old to remember the over-the-top patriotic fervor that went along with the Falklands War.  At the time, publications in both the US and UK wrote of the overwhelming public displays of support of "Queen and Country", somewhere I still have my "Our Empire Strikes Back" Union Jack button playing on the theme of the then latest "Star Wars" installlment.  Some commentators claimed the patriotism shown in the UK exceeded even that of the US during the Iran hostage crisis.  Sir Lawrence Friedman devoted quite a bit of print to it in Whithall 's "The Official History of the Falklands Conflict", and how that level of  support drove some of the UK's more controversial decisions such as sinking Belgrano and Vulcan attacks.

I never said "we are basically the same", have far too much experience with the Brits to even consider such a statement.  What I did learn, based on real world dealings vice comedic television, is we both accept different doesn't mean wrong and we can work effectively together despite those differences.  Actually, some of those differences can be amusing in the workaday world.  My first trip to the UK (79-80), a colleague asked a nice little old lady in a tea shop if he could get a napkin.  She was clearly both confused and embarassed by the request, and simply replied none were available as she walked away redfaced.   A very nice Canadian lady at the next table quietly explained to my friend he should have asked for a "servette", and that his request had been interpreted as a feminine protection product.

You make some interesting points. I don't think you should confuse, though, the feelings of a country during wartime and peacetime. You'd be surprised what I remember about the Falklands; I remember the press conferences by John Nott, I remember the ships going off to fight. Names like Port Stanley and Goose Green (as well as poor old Simon Weston) were familiar names I grew up with and still remember, partly because my father was involved with designing military aircraft and had a strong interest in all of that. I also remember the Belgrano and that Sun headline ('Gotcha!'), which was one of the most appalling pieces of journalism imaginable, even for that rag. The Malvinas (as the Argies call it) has been, and still is, a sore point, and politicians will use it to exploit the situation whenever they can. It may well flare up again, who knows? But jingoism during wartime is one thing - we aren't chauvinistic in the way that the French are about their culture, with their pathetic fretting about their language being polluted, that kind of thing. Almost no-one celebrates St George's Day, for example; it just feels like a waste of time

As to the differences between you lot and us. I was thinking about this earlier. I think, among educated Americans at least, you have an essential seriousness that we lack. You find that in the military when the two of us get together; the Americans find the British attitude (less than zealous obedience to the dress code, for example) as frivolous, while we find that being too serious is rather embarrassing. Find me a British politician who is prepared to make a statement like 'God Bless Great Britain', and I hope there is someone public spirited enough around to punch him in the face. The closest we got to American style boosterism was Tony Blair, and he looked a bit of an idiot to most people here. We might be proud of our country but it's very bad form to say so in public, unlike America where it is perfectly routine and acceptable. Also, one other interesting sidelight on the British character came during the War. We were facing this incredible threat to civilisation from this maniacal bastard who threatened to wipe us off the map. And what do we do? Respond by taking the piss out of his name (calling him Schicklgruber) and his appearance. That sort of pissing about baffled the Germans at the time, but it's a very important part of out character, that even when things are most serious we will try to inject some humour into it. I'm sure Yorkshire Pud would agree.

Anyway, I say all this as a firm admirer of Americans, even if I like to tease them a bit.

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on August 28, 2015, 06:30:42 AM

It's something of an open secret that I'm prouder of being a Yorkshireman than I am English. But that's natural.

I'm busy looking up the word 'understatement' in the dictionary.

He's from Yorkshire, ya know!


SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 27, 2015, 12:20:28 PM

My first trip to the UK (79-80), a colleague asked a nice little old lady in a tea shop if he could get a napkin.  She was clearly both confused and embarassed by the request, and simply replied none were available as she walked away redfaced.   A very nice Canadian lady at the next table quietly explained to my friend he should have asked for a "servette", and that his request had been interpreted as a feminine protection product.

The classic mistake is to ask an American for a fag (or worse, a packet of them), of course, and I am sure that has happened too many times to count. I can't help thinking that the woman who was asked for a napkin was an idiot, though, because even if the usage was slightly unfamiliar I think most people would have worked out that he hadn't been asking for a sanitary towel.

I had a experience on the Tube once when an American man wanted to know what a sign saying 'no busking' meant. I think he was worried that he might have been busking without being aware of it. I was once taken to task by an American at a theatre during the interval of a rather tedious play. The writer of the play was British, so this American decided to waylay me (as another Limey) and tell me what he thought of this POS play. This went on for several minutes while I tried to edge away as politely as I could. In the end I said to him that, as he hated it so much, he probably wouldn't go back in to see the rest. He looked horrified for a moment and yelled, 'YOU MEAN THERE'S A SECOND HALF!!??'.


Uncle Duke

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 28, 2015, 07:29:06 AM
You make some interesting points. I don't think you should confuse, though, the feelings of a country during wartime and peacetime. You'd be surprised what I remember about the Falklands; I remember the press conferences by John Nott, I remember the ships going off to fight. Names like Port Stanley and Goose Green (as well as poor old Simon Weston) were familiar names I grew up with and still remember, partly because my father was involved with designing military aircraft and had a strong interest in all of that. I also remember the Belgrano and that Sun headline ('Gotcha!'), which was one of the most appalling pieces of journalism imaginable, even for that rag. The Malvinas (as the Argies call it) has been, and still is, a sore point, and politicians will use it to exploit the situation whenever they can. It may well flare up again, who knows? But jingoism during wartime is one thing - we aren't chauvinistic in the way that the French are about their culture, with their pathetic fretting about their language being polluted, that kind of thing. Almost no-one celebrates St George's Day, for example; it just feels like a waste of time

As to the differences between you lot and us. I was thinking about this earlier. I think, among educated Americans at least, you have an essential seriousness that we lack. You find that in the military when the two of us get together; the Americans find the British attitude (less than zealous obedience to the dress code, for example) as frivolous, while we find that being too serious is rather embarrassing. Find me a British politician who is prepared to make a statement like 'God Bless Great Britain', and I hope there is someone public spirited enough around to punch him in the face. The closest we got to American style boosterism was Tony Blair, and he looked a bit of an idiot to most people here. We might be proud of our country but it's very bad form to say so in public, unlike America where it is perfectly routine and acceptable. Also, one other interesting sidelight on the British character came during the War. We were facing this incredible threat to civilisation from this maniacal bastard who threatened to wipe us off the map. And what do we do? Respond by taking the piss out of his name (calling him Schicklgruber) and his appearance. That sort of pissing about baffled the Germans at the time, but it's a very important part of out character, that even when things are most serious we will try to inject some humour into it. I'm sure Yorkshire Pud would agree.



Anyway, I say all this as a firm admirer of Americans, even if I like to tease them a bit.

Which gets back to my original point, periods of intense patriotism eeb and flow with times and events.  What those hot button events are tend to be a function of the national character of individual countries.  For example,  US success in international sporting events (Olympics, World Cup soccer, etc) mean less to the average American than their local high school football team.  In most countries, however, success or failure in those competitions are matters of great national pride.  Wars, on the other hand, are not guaranteed to rally patriotic support as the US found in SEA and Brits at Suez.

I never had any dealings with the British Army (other than having been hassled at checkpoints in Derry and Belfast), I worked along side RAF and RN types for many years.  I found them to be far more spit & polish and into military courtesy and decorum than our people.  This was most noticeable with respect to being rank conscious, especially in dealings between officers and NCOs.  I never saw the respectful informality with the Brits I was used to in the US military.

There is still a good deal of what went on during the Falklands War that remains classified on both sides of the pond, although most of it is more politically sensitive than militarily significant.

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 09:31:37 AM
Which gets back to my original point, periods of intense patriotism eeb and flow with times and events.  What those hot button events are tend to be a function of the national character of individual countries.  For example,  US success in international sporting events (Olympics, World Cup soccer, etc) mean less to the average American than their local high school football team.  In most countries, however, success or failure in those competitions are matters of great national pride.  Wars, on the other hand, are not guaranteed to rally patriotic support as the US found in SEA and Brits at Suez.

I never had any dealings with the British Army (other than having been hassled at checkpoints in Derry and Belfast), I worked along side RAF and RN types for many years.  I found them to be far more spit & polish and into military courtesy and decorum than our people.  This was most noticeable with respect to being rank conscious, especially in dealings between officers and NCOs.  I never saw the respectful informality with the Brits I was used to in the US military.

There is still a good deal of what went on during the Falklands War that remains classified on both sides of the pond, although most of it is more politically sensitive than militarily significant.

In terms of rank, I have no doubt. This place is still very class conscious and you are judged in terms of the accent you have and what your parents did. Perhaps I didn't express myself very well, I was talking about a certain eccentricity that you tend to find, particularly in combat situations, where you can find that they like to cultivate some slightly odd habits, for reasons best known to themselves. That's not the same as being friendly (which I am sure they are not). I find, in general that Americans are a hell of a lot easier to get along with than we are, where the British reserve is all too apparent  (particularly in the south). It can get very tiresome.


Uncle Duke

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 28, 2015, 09:28:54 AM
The classic mistake is to ask an American for a fag (or worse, a packet of them), of course, and I am sure that has happened too many times to count. I can't help thinking that the woman who was asked for a napkin was an idiot, though, because even if the usage was slightly unfamiliar I think most people would have worked out that he hadn't been asking for a sanitary towel.


I have heard similar comments from other Brits, particularly younger ones, to whom I've told that story. Consensus of opinion is it was a generational thing in the use of the term.  The tea lady would have been at least in her mid-60s at the time (1980), apparently this was how the item was described polite company during her formative years.  I know my grandparents used terms for various things when I was a youngster that few under 50 would know today.  But yes, why she would think my late 20-something male colleague would require feminine protection is puzzling.

Either that or the Canadian woman was messing with us.

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 10:06:49 AM
I have heard similar comments from other Brits, particularly younger ones, to whom I've told that story. Consensus of opinion is it was a generational thing in the use of the term.  The tea lady would have been at least in her mid-60s at the time (1980), apparently this was how the item was described polite company during her formative years.  I know my grandparents used terms for various things when I was a youngster that few under 50 would know today.  But yes, why she would think my late 20-something male colleague would require feminine protection is puzzling.

Either that or the Canadian woman was messing with us.

Those crazy canucks!

Quite possibly some dithery old dear of the Arsenic and Old Lace variety. People do still call table linen napery (I don't know if they do there) sometimes, so it's not as if it is some bizarre word that nobody had every heard before. They probably saw you thumbing through your British Phrase book ("what ho, honest tea shoppe woman, how about a pot of oolong? spit spot!) and decided to have a bit of honest sport with you.  ;)

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 10:06:49 AM
I have heard similar comments from other Brits, particularly younger ones, to whom I've told that story. Consensus of opinion is it was a generational thing in the use of the term.  The tea lady would have been at least in her mid-60s at the time (1980), apparently this was how the item was described polite company during her formative years.  I know my grandparents used terms for various things when I was a youngster that few under 50 would know today.  But yes, why she would think my late 20-something male colleague would require feminine protection is puzzling.

Either that or the Canadian woman was messing with us.

I saw an interview with Ted Koppel a few years ago, in which he talked about an embarrassing incident he experienced on his first day of school after his family moved here from the UK (until then, I had no idea he was British).  He didn't have an eraser, so he asked if anyone had a "rubber" he could borrow. As you would expect, hilarity and ridicule ensued, and he said it was a long time before he lived it down.

SredniVashtar

And as for going into a restaurant and asking for Spotted Dick!

SredniVashtar

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 10:06:49 AM

Either that or the Canadian woman was messing with us.

Actually, now that I think of it, you're quite right. They did used to call them sanitary napkins way back when. But, as you say, her confusion under the circs is pretty bizarre. Just another dotty old biddy, I guess. The place is full of them.

Quote from: SredniVashtar on August 28, 2015, 10:28:27 AM
And as for going into a restaurant and asking for Spotted Dick!

I had that once, but a shot of penicillin cleared it right up...

albrecht

Re: Patriotism. Maybe on a daily level we are more patriotic (every game starts with anthem, flags everywhere, etc) but Remembrance Sunday and various anniversaries seemed pretty patriotic to me, and more so than the usual bbq and fun of the American Memorial Day. End of the Proms? More patriotic than our "boston pops" concerts. And as mentioned previous the fervor by which people follow such sports as running, etc in Olympics and even non-Olympic events? Or support the national football team (in soccer and rugby?) I was in Trafalgar Square after the Ashes win a decade ago or so and it seemed pretty patriotic. Lots of English flags, drunks dressed as knights from the Crusades, etc. Hell of a fun time watching the drunk team give speeches. haha. As mentioned we care far more about our local high-school or college football (or other) team than we do about our national teams. And in some places care more about our State or region, than the country in many ways.

Uncle Duke

Quote from: albrecht on August 28, 2015, 10:59:17 AM
Re: Patriotism. Maybe on a daily level we are more patriotic (every game starts with anthem, flags everywhere, etc) but Remembrance Sunday and various anniversaries seemed pretty patriotic to me, and more so than the usual bbq and fun of the American Memorial Day. End of the Proms? More patriotic than our "boston pops" concerts. And as mentioned previous the fervor by which people follow such sports as running, etc in Olympics and even non-Olympic events? Or support the national football team (in soccer and rugby?) I was in Trafalgar Square after the Ashes win a decade ago or so and it seemed pretty patriotic. Lots of English flags, drunks dressed as knights from the Crusades, etc. Hell of a fun time watching the drunk team give speeches. haha. As mentioned we care far more about our local high-school or college football (or other) team than we do about our national teams. And in some places care more about our State or region, than the country in many ways.

I think it's a fair statement the marked upswing in patriotism in the US was a direct result of 9/11.  Except for a brief uptick during (and ended after) the Iran hostage crisis, nothing like this has happened since WWII until 9/11.

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 11:12:19 AM
I think it's a fair statement the marked upswing in patriotism in the US was a direct result of 9/11.  Except for a brief uptick during (and ended after) the Iran hostage crisis, nothing like this has happened since WWII until 9/11.

I would add "the Reagan era" in general. I observed a complete transformation -- top to bottom -- of the military and a truly palpable reemergence of the American spirit during that time. Patriotism, under Reagan, was back in vogue.

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on August 28, 2015, 10:43:55 AM
I had that once, but a shot of penicillin cleared it right up...

Oh yes. But AFTER you spread your own special brand of misery and mayhem. But I forgive you.

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on August 28, 2015, 01:30:19 PM
Oh yes. But AFTER you spread your own special brand of misery and mayhem. But I forgive you.

You should, considering the way you bubbled and squeaked at the time...   ;D

Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost on August 28, 2015, 02:33:54 PM
You should, considering the way you bubbled and squeaked at the time...   ;D


I got what you did there. Bubble and squeak. Delicacy.

Uncle Duke

Quote from: Yorkshire pud on August 28, 2015, 02:38:01 PM

I got what you did there. Bubble and squeak. Delicacy.

I assume a mushy peas or bangers joke is next.


Yorkshire pud

Quote from: Uncle Duke on August 28, 2015, 02:45:23 PM
I assume a mushy peas or bangers joke is next.


Ahhh, you partook in our fine tradition of boiling processed peas to destruction and adding outrageous food colouring?

albrecht

If anyone wants some good comedy the interview and debate between Alex and David Duke, especially as it resorts to who had more seconds of interview time etc.

ps: I like mushy peas! I don't see why British food gets a bum rap. I'd take it over French food any day.

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