Ebola

[VtaGeezer]

Yes, but it would also matter one how/who initiated the quarantine. If Obama uses the Executive Order he revised recently to initiate the quarantine I'm guessing the lawsuit would be thrown out. Sovereign immunity etc. But even if not (or against the hospital, governor, TSA, if they initiated the quarantine) I'm guessing a lawyer could find experts on disease or epidemiologists would testify about "erring on side of caution" and a jury (with the media scaremongering) would likely find that a quarantine with such hardships of having WiFi, cable, good food, excellent medical care, central heating and cooling, in your own home could be warranted.

Quarantine is the purview of the states.  "Sovereign immunity" applies to liability and has nothing to do with a judge ruling on  the constitutionality of a law, nor do juries.

[albrecht]

Quarantine is the purview of the states.  "Sovereign immunity" applies to liability and has nothing to do with a judge ruling on  the constitutionality of a law, nor do juries.

I am assuming the quarantined would be seeking damages in court (pain and suffering, loss of income, alienation of affection, and who knows what all other tort to come up with.) Why set through court dates if you are not looking for the payout? Especially that the court case would likely last longer than your quarantine?
Quarantine is NOT exclusively the purview of the States, as you well know.
He is quarantining returning soldiers (the ones he sent under the Executive Order. No "war on Ebola" needed to be passed by Congress, apparently.)
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/16/executive-order-ordering-selected-reserve-and-certain-individual-ready-r
And in general for respirator diseases:
http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/31/executive-order-revised-list-quarantinable-communicable-diseases
And Federal code regarding communicable diseases:
http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264

[Kelt]

Quarantine's aren't illegal or Un-Constitutional.  If they were, wouldn't we have heard about it long before now?  And wondered how that could be?[/b]

True that... not like the authorities ever do anything that might be illegal or unconstitutional.

[VtaGeezer]

Quarantine is NOT exclusively the purview of the States, as you well know.
He is quarantining returning soldiers (the ones he sent under the Executive Order. No "war on Ebola" needed to be passed by Congress, apparently.)

Minutae.  The states have jurisdiction for medical quarantine of the general public.

[albrecht]

Minutae.  The states have jurisdiction for medical quarantine of the general public.

There is Federal law also (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264) and Obama has already asserted his right to unilaterally for a quarantine if he so wishes in his revised Executive Order. But, I guess, the Federal Register, and even the White Office Press office, just made up this documents in order to smear Obama?
www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/16/executive-order-ordering-selected-reserve-and-certain-individual-ready-r

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/31/executive-order-revised-list-quarantinable-communicable-diseases
"(a) Cholera; Diphtheria; infectious Tuberculosis; Plague; Smallpox; Yellow Fever; and Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers (Lassa, Marburg, Ebola, Crimean-Congo, South American, and others not yet isolated or named). "

[VtaGeezer]

There is Federal law also (http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/42/264) and Obama has already asserted his right to unilaterally for a quarantine if he so wishes in his revised Executive Order. But, I guess, the Federal Register, and even the White Office Press office, just made up this documents in order to smear Obama?
www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/10/16/executive-order-ordering-selected-reserve-and-certain-individual-ready-r

http://www.whitehouse.gov/the-press-office/2014/07/31/executive-order-revised-list-quarantinable-communicable-diseases
"(a) Cholera; Diphtheria; infectious Tuberculosis; Plague; Smallpox; Yellow Fever; and Viral Hemorrhagic Fevers (Lassa, Marburg, Ebola, Crimean-Congo, South American, and others not yet isolated or named). "

Per 42-264: "...from foreign countries into the States or possessions".  If you focus, I think you may get it.

[Kelt]

Can you get Ebola from sex if you wear a condom?

Prompt answer would be appreciated.

[albrecht]

Can you get Ebola from sex if you wear a condom?

Prompt answer would be appreciated.

I would lay off any sex tours to West Africa and avoid any liaison with anyone coming from there or in contact with an Ebola patient. In the abundance of caution. Scientifically they say "bodily fluids" so unless you have "good, clean, Christian sex involving an egg-timer, plastic sheeting, hermetically cut holes, and gasoline-based solvents to limit all exchanging of fluids as respect for the woman" (ala Phil Hendrie character Larry Grover bit from years ago) I would say a risk even with a condom. But a condom is a definite but still will be risk. Some article said CDC found virus 90 days out in sperm from "recovered" patients. Assuming you are a man and not a homosexual the risk will be less but why risk it?

[The General]

Quarantine sounds fucking awesome.

[PB the Deplorable]

I think the President and his family should spend a week or three visiting Ebola patients in West African clinics and hospitals.  They shouldn't use any protective gear, just to drive home the point that it's impossible to catch without rolling in vomit or eating bats.

Just to, you know, quell the panic.  Michele could hand out organic fair-trade carrot sticks from her garden.  Nobody sneeze.

[NowhereInTime]

I think the President and his family should spend a week or three visiting Ebola patients in West African clinics and hospitals.  They shouldn't use any protective gear, just to drive home the point that it's impossible to catch without rolling in vomit or eating bats.

Just to, you know, quell the panic.  Michele could hand out organic fair-trade carrot sticks from her garden.  Nobody sneeze.

Meanwhile, the 21 day precautionary period in Cleveland expired with no cases of Ebola.  In fact, the only case of ongoing ebola is Dr Spencer in NYC. 
But no, chicken little, keep panic alive.
More people have died from gunshot wounds than Ebola since October 15th.

[Yorkshire pud]

Meanwhile, the 21 day precautionary period in Cleveland expired with no cases of Ebola.  In fact, the only case of ongoing ebola is Dr Spencer in NYC. 
But no, chicken little, keep panic alive.
More people have died from gunshot wounds than Ebola since October 15th.

Yeah, but it was their legal right to be killed that way. Ebola isn't legal, it isn't in the Constitution.

[Lt.Uhura]

I think the President and his family should spend a week or three visiting Ebola patients in West African clinics and hospitals.  They shouldn't use any protective gear, just to drive home the point that it's impossible to catch without rolling in vomit or eating bats.

Just to, you know, quell the panic.  Michele could hand out organic fair-trade carrot sticks from her garden.  Nobody sneeze.

Ironically, while you're busy typing out vitriolic diatribes aimed at President Obama, First Lady Michelle, and even organic fair-trade carrots (!), it turns out that your own anger and hostility can make you more susceptible to a variety of diseases, especially heart disease.

American Psychological Association

Hostility associated with immune function
Aggression and hostility can affect tumor necrosis factor â€" a protein that is released by immune cells and other tissues.

March 2003, Vol 34, No. 3
Print version: page 47
Highly hostile men are more likely to have higher levels of an immune system protein that's associated with several risk factors for cardiovascular problems, according to recent research published by psychologists Edward C. Suarez, PhD, James G. Lewis, PhD, and Cynthia Kuhn, PhD, in Brain, Behavior and Immunity (Vol. 16, No. 6).
The researchers' study of 62 healthy, nonsmoking men found that aggression and hostility can affect tumor necrosis factor (TNF)--a protein that is released by immune cells and other tissues. The protein, which marks inflammation of the arteries and tissues, helps direct immune system cells to the site of an infection or inflammation, among other things.
"Over the last 10 years, physicians and researchers have come to understand that heart disease is really an inflammatory disease involving injury to the arteries that is caused by a number of factors, such as smoking, high blood pressure, obesity and high cholesterol," Suarez says. And researchers have shown that such risk factors are associated with increases in TNF and other "inflammation markers." Moreover, atherosclerosis--an accumulation of unhealthy fatty deposits in the arteries--is characterized by high levels of TNF.
"What was not known until now was whether psychological factors often associated with great risk of heart disease, such as hostility and anger, are also associated with these same markers of inflammation," Suarez explains.
In their paper, Suarez and his colleagues examined the relationships of TNF to levels of aggression, hostility and anger. They found that healthy, nonsmoking men who scored high on hostility and physical aggression measures had higher TNF levels than those with moderate and low scores--even after controlling for age, race, alcohol use and educational status. Interestingly, says Suarez, those with moderate and low scores had similar TNF levels. Anger and verbal aggression scores were positively, but not significantly, associated with TNF levels.
"Overall, these results suggest that it is the attitude of ill-will toward others in addition to the tendency toward physical harm and verbal aggression that underlies the positive association between aggression and [TNF levels]," write the authors.
The paper is the first to document a relationship of aggression and hostility to one of the inflammatory markers that characterizes atherosclerosis, says Suarez, noting that the findings are independent of other traditional risk factors.
--D. SMITH

(And before the scientific data)

Mark Twain  ~
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

[Lt.Uhura]

Meanwhile, the 21 day precautionary period in Cleveland expired with no cases of Ebola.  In fact, the only case of ongoing ebola is Dr Spencer in NYC. 
But no, chicken little, keep panic alive.
More people have died from gunshot wounds than Ebola since October 15th.

And don't forget the #1 killer in the U.S:  Heart Disease, which kills about 600,000 people a year.

BTW...Coronary Vascular Disease (including heart disease, high blood pressure, and stroke) costs the United States over $300 billion each year, including the cost of health care services, medications, and lost productivity. --CDC, AHA

Fortunately we have the Affordable (health) Care Act....Oh, wait!!

[aldousburbank]

Ironically, while you're busy typing out vitriolic diatribes aimed at President Obama, First Lady Michelle, and even organic fair-trade carrots (!), it turns out that your own anger and hostility can make you more susceptible to a variety of diseases, especially heart disease.

American Psychological Association

Hostility associated with immune function
Aggression and hostility can affect tumor necrosis factor â€" a protein that is released by immune cells and other tissues.

March 2003, Vol 34, No. 3
Print version: page 47
Highly hostile men are more likely to have higher levels of an immune system protein that's associated with several risk factors for cardiovascular problems, according to recent research published by psychologists Edward C. Suarez, PhD, James G. Lewis, PhD, and Cynthia Kuhn, PhD, in Brain, Behavior and Immunity (Vol. 16, No. 6).
The researchers' study of 62 healthy, nonsmoking men found that aggression and hostility can affect tumor necrosis factor (TNF)--a protein that is released by immune cells and other tissues. The protein, which marks inflammation of the arteries and tissues, helps direct immune system cells to the site of an infection or inflammation, among other things.
"Over the last 10 years, physicians and researchers have come to understand that heart disease is really an inflammatory disease involving injury to the arteries that is caused by a number of factors, such as smoking, high blood pressure, obesity and high cholesterol," Suarez says. And researchers have shown that such risk factors are associated with increases in TNF and other "inflammation markers." Moreover, atherosclerosis--an accumulation of unhealthy fatty deposits in the arteries--is characterized by high levels of TNF.
"What was not known until now was whether psychological factors often associated with great risk of heart disease, such as hostility and anger, are also associated with these same markers of inflammation," Suarez explains.
In their paper, Suarez and his colleagues examined the relationships of TNF to levels of aggression, hostility and anger. They found that healthy, nonsmoking men who scored high on hostility and physical aggression measures had higher TNF levels than those with moderate and low scores--even after controlling for age, race, alcohol use and educational status. Interestingly, says Suarez, those with moderate and low scores had similar TNF levels. Anger and verbal aggression scores were positively, but not significantly, associated with TNF levels.
"Overall, these results suggest that it is the attitude of ill-will toward others in addition to the tendency toward physical harm and verbal aggression that underlies the positive association between aggression and [TNF levels]," write the authors.
The paper is the first to document a relationship of aggression and hostility to one of the inflammatory markers that characterizes atherosclerosis, says Suarez, noting that the findings are independent of other traditional risk factors.
--D. SMITH

(And before the scientific data)

Mark Twain  ~
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

This information clearly does not apply to Twain and myself as it specifies "nonsmoking men".

"... it has always been my rule never to smoke when asleep and never to refrain when awake."
Mark Twain

[PB the Deplorable]

Ironically, while you're busy typing out vitriolic diatribes aimed at President Obama, First Lady Michelle, and even organic fair-trade carrots (!), it turns out that your own anger and hostility can make you more susceptible to a variety of diseases, especially heart disease...

Mark Twain  ~
Anger is an acid that can do more harm to the vessel in which it is stored than to anything on which it is poured.

Aw, thank you for caring, Lt. 

I didn't think that was the direction your post was heading at first.  Rest assured I'm not making myself ill.  While Barry and his toadies are out destroying as much of my country as they can, as fast as they can, I find it therapeutic to comment on it.

And I'm not really against organic carrots, just hers. 

[SciFiAuthor]

Meanwhile, the 21 day precautionary period in Cleveland expired with no cases of Ebola.  In fact, the only case of ongoing ebola is Dr Spencer in NYC. 
But no, chicken little, keep panic alive.
More people have died from gunshot wounds than Ebola since October 15th.

What I find interesting is that "settled science", i.e. the fact that we know how viruses transmit and we know that this one does, is ignored in this debate. Instead it's some weird shit about not stopping flights from West Africa because it's bad for some reason or another, even though a number of countries have done it. I mean, are we for science or not here? It seems to depend on what degree of science is politically convenient.

Ebola could turn into a huge problem very fast. Or not. It depends on people on the ground containing it properly, which didn't seem to happen with the first case. Well, should that be surprising? It's normal people doing their jobs and sometimes screwing up in a crushingly bureaucratic and paralyzed country that worries about lawsuits and political effects and focus groups and god knows what else before it can do anything. Well, viruses don't care about any of that shit, thusly the fear seems justified.

I think what we need to bear in mind is that it might seem clear from the top that this disease can be managed, but when one gets to the point of implementation, serious mistakes can be made. We don't really have the luxury with this one to treat it like we did with Michelle's non-functional school lunch bullshit. That's just school lunches, they can be fucked up and we can all fight about it or whatever. But a virus with this kind of lethality, no, we can't treat it as business as usual. Unfortunately, it's being treated as business as usual by the Obama administration.

[WOTR]

This information clearly does not apply to Twain and myself as it specifies "nonsmoking men".

"... it has always been my rule never to smoke when asleep and never to refrain when awake."
Mark Twain

I will see your Twain quote about setting an example for others and raise you "...when they used to tell me I would shorten my life ten years by smoking, they little knew the devotee they were wasting their puerile word upon -- they little knew how trivial and valueless I would regard a decade that had no smoking in it!"

Now, If you'll excuse me this reminds me that I have not lit up in a week (sadly, I do not have the dedication to the pipe nor cigars that Twain enjoyed and do not have the time to relax with one often enough.)  I think it is time for some CPCC Samovar in an old Barling...

[Robert Ghostwolf's Ghost]

The danger won't go away until we seal our borders from European hillbilly immigrants.


The Immigrants--National Lampoon Radio Hour

[VtaGeezer]

For the hair-on-fire crowd; the last American ebola patient was released from the hospital today and the nurse in Maine, who wasn't even sick, is off her state imposed quarantine.  So the only US-developed cases were the the two nurses from the Dallas hospital who spent days up their elbows in the virus from Mr Duncan in an ill-trained and ill-prepared facility. Lucky for the dopes at the CDC, no one got it from a infected bowling-ball or door knob or subway seat.  We owe a debt of thanks to Dr. Bill O'Reilly and the staff at Fox News for taking over from the "despicable" CDC (as described by Dr Bill himself), whipping up appropriate hysteria with The Truth about ebola, and saving America. And Bill...we promise that, next time, we'll get the lynch mobs organized sooner.

[paladin1991]

For the hair-on-fire crowd; the last American ebola patient was released from the hospital today and the nurse in Maine, who wasn't even sick, is off her state imposed quarantine.  So the only US-developed cases were the the two nurses from the Dallas hospital who spent days up their elbows in the virus from Mr Duncan in an ill-trained and ill-prepared facility. No one got it from a infected bowling-ball or subway seat.  We owe a debt of thanks to Dr. Bill O'Reilly and the staff at Fox News for taking over from the "despicable" CDC (as described by Dr Bill himself) and saving America. And Bill...we promise that, next time, we'll get the lynch mobs organized sooner.

Your snark is always appreciated.  It sets the mark for me.  Sorry if you really do feel that
'extreme' precautions for a disease that has no cure are somehow beyond the pale.

I'm not one to light my hair on fire, but I am very cautious with things that might kill me or others;  firearms, drinking and driving, ebola, ill-tempered sea bass, you know, that kind of shit. 

Talk all the shit you want, but in the end, I'll bet you a dollar that if that shit had gone nation or regionally wide, you might be rethinking your head in the sand position.  Thankfully, it was isolated to a couple of infections. 

I think the real lesson here in the US, is for us to fix the buffonery that went on with BS info fm the CDC, no set national policy for quarantines, procedures, etc.  As for your angst in your pants about talking heads?  Well, you got a point....but they are talking heads, paid to make noises with their mouth parts.  And, come on, you gotta admit, some of them sure do have a purty mouth.

A nurse goes into Q because of where she has been and what she has been doing?  Okay by me.  Sorry for the inconvenience.  Here's 10,000 dollars a day fm an appreciative nation or something to take the sting out of it.   Hell, inconvenience me for 10 grand a day.  Or don't.  I've just been doing a very dangerous job, I knew it going in.  To be wide eyed and shocked when I'm put in Q?  Fuck me to tears.

[VtaGeezer]

Talk all the shit you want, but in the end, I'll bet you a dollar that if that shit had gone nation or regionally wide, you might be rethinking your head in the sand position.  Thankfully, it was isolated to a couple of infections. 

I think the real lesson here in the US, is for us to fix the buffonery that went on with BS info fm the CDC, no set national policy for quarantines, procedures, etc.  As for your angst in your pants about talking heads?  Well, you got a point....but they are talking heads, paid to make noises with their mouth parts.  And, come on, you gotta admit, some of them sure do have a purty mouth.

A nurse goes into Q because of where she has been and what she has been doing?  Okay by me.  Sorry for the inconvenience.  Here's 10,000 dollars a day fm an appreciative nation or something to take the sting out of it.   Hell, inconvenience me for 10 grand a day.  Or don't.  I've just been doing a very dangerous job, I knew it going in.  To be wide eyed and shocked when I'm put in Q?  Fuck me to tears.

Ummm...it didn't spread...just as the "bufoons" at CDC and every other expert said it wouldn't.
Not talking heads at Fox; ranting, foaming-at-the-mouth heads. CNN wasn't much better.
There was no "something to take the sting out of it"; just hysterical anger and insult.
They closed schools in OK and MS because faculty had been on the African continent thousands of miles from ebola.
Why listen to reason or experts when you can PANIC!!
If you've seen the new insurance commercial with the teens and the chain-saw killer, it pretty much describes America and ebola.

Bottom line - we should learn that ebola in primitive W Africa and ebola in the developed world with medical facilities are two very different things.  And irrational fear is spread far easier than the virus.

[albrecht]

Ummm...it didn't spread...just as the "bufoons" at CDC and every other expert said it wouldn't.
Not talking heads at Fox; ranting, foaming-at-the-mouth heads. CNN wasn't much better.
There was no "something to take the sting out of it"; just hysterical anger and insult.
They closed schools in OK and MS because faculty had been on the African continent thousands of miles from ebola.
Why listen to reason or experts when you can PANIC!!
If you've seen the new insurance commercial with the teens and the chain-saw killer, it pretty much describes America and ebola.

Bottom line is we should learn that that ebola in primitive W Africa and ebola in the developed world with medical facilities are two very different things.  And irrational fear is spread far easier than the virus.

I have a better idea. Let's keep our border open and allow diseases endemic, or at least prevalent, in third world countries to come here via their hosts. This not only we add to our healthcare costs but also help "redistribute" diseases. After all why should only poor or minority populations get them. It really isn't fair. And grant amnesty for illegals infected with TB, Dengue, Scabies, Whooping Cough, Chagas, veneral disease(s), and just plain lice and then, ideally, ship them around the country and get their infected brood to attend our public schools (not private schools like Sidwell Friends, of course.) We might even get lucky and get an illegal with Ebola over here. One can hope!

[paladin1991]

While there's hope, there's life.

[pate]

...

I'm not one to light my hair on fire,

...

Dammit, I can't seem to find it, this reminded me of a (I think) Monty Python skit with pirates & burning pitch in their hair (think it was Eric Idle with the burning hair) but all I could find was this (I think it is still pertinent):


Monty Python, The Fish Slapping Dance

Sort of got a WWI vibe out of it too, so bonus!

[Kelt]

For the hair-on-fire crowd; the last American ebola patient was released from the hospital today and the nurse in Maine, who wasn't even sick, is off her state imposed quarantine.  So the only US-developed cases were the the two nurses from the Dallas hospital who spent days up their elbows in the virus from Mr Duncan in an ill-trained and ill-prepared facility. Lucky for the dopes at the CDC, no one got it from a infected bowling-ball or door knob or subway seat.  We owe a debt of thanks to Dr. Bill O'Reilly and the staff at Fox News for taking over from the "despicable" CDC (as described by Dr Bill himself), whipping up appropriate hysteria with The Truth about ebola, and saving America. And Bill...we promise that, next time, we'll get the lynch mobs organized sooner.

Pretty useless virus to try Agenda 21-ing us with.

Weaponised Flu, that's the way to go. You'd almost have to eat an entire cake baked using Ebola intead of flour to catch that particular disease.

Poor show, UN... have to try harder to kill us all next time.

[Yorkshire pud]

The danger won't go away until we seal our borders from European hillbilly immigrants.

Be VERY afraid; I might be coming to the  USA next year.... 

[Yorkshire pud]

While there's hope, there's life.

And while there's a means to generate panic from ill informed to the ill informed; someone will be making money. As a matter of interets,I wonder how much has been made by those cashing in? Tyvek suits, extra supplies, NBC suits, 'You Ebola bug out guide'...etc...

[paladin1991]

Be VERY afraid; I might be coming to the  USA next year.... 

Keep us apprised of your situation and timeline.  Never know.  We might hoist a pint and have that punch in the face contest.

[Yorkshire pud]

Keep us apprised of your situation and timeline.  Never know.  We might hoist a pint and have that punch in the face contest.

That isn't a very friendly welcome. The pint will go down well though.