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What are social justice warriors losing their shit about today?

Started by bateman, June 12, 2015, 06:46:40 PM

WildCard

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 05:43:58 PM
Regarding the last two links, I can't imagine why a small minority of women are being criticized for something many men have done for centuries!  What a double standard and hypocrisy.  At least the women are paying a decent rate, unlike men who talk about doing the same thing in Mexico for small change.  And, of course it's natural to feel sorry for a gigolo who has an ailment and prostitutes for medicine, but on the other hand, female prostitutes are much more vulnerable, not only having to work with ailments, but also risking being beaten or killed.  I understand objections to women paying for international male prostitution (which may be legal for all I know).  But, male gigolos' vulnerability is very small and just seems like a drop in the bucket of general prostitution.  Just one more thing to pick on women about?
Me

no shit, martini! what have you got against gigolos?!

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 05:08:26 PM
Link or I don't believe the poster happened. And, yes, I checked.
Me



Derp.

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 05:29:40 PM
I just didn't see it; it actually was normal enough.

You don't really see much outside of the lens of compliant media consumer do you?

Jojo

Quote from: Metron2267 on June 27, 2018, 04:13:23 PM
Help you with what?

I'm confused, were you in trouble of some kind?
:o
...
Hwooooo, another caring sort.  What kind of trashy place is this  ::).
Me

Juan

It would appear that you honky soy boys are no longer of interest to women.


Metron2267

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on June 27, 2018, 04:44:23 PM
It wasn't about Kardasians. I've actually known some black men and it's pretty common knowledge that a lot of them like big women. I often see big white women with black guys.

Fair enough (but anecdotal), my bad on thinking it was humor.

My anecdote is I have seen some black guys with really skinny white chicks, so...


Metron2267

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 06:19:55 PM
Hwooooo, another caring sort.  What kind of trashy place is this  ::).
Me

Did you forget that I already replied to you and you back to me on th4 previous page?

QuoteI really HATE to read about crap like that.

Your duty as a human being is to help a person, not a color.

Grrr./quote]

So what's this anger about??? :o

Jojo

Quote from: Metron2267 on June 27, 2018, 07:06:09 PM
Did you forget that I already replied to you and you back to me on th4 previous page?
Can't stop 'til I get enough!  Which one are you again??
Me


WOTR

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 05:43:58 PM
Regarding the last two links, I can't imagine why a small minority of women are being criticized for something many men have done for centuries!  What a double standard and hypocrisy.  At least the women are paying a decent rate, unlike men who talk about doing the same thing in Mexico for small change.  And, of course it's natural to feel sorry for a gigolo who has an ailment and prostitutes for medicine, but on the other hand, female prostitutes are much more vulnerable, not only having to work with ailments, but also risking being beaten or killed.  I understand objections to women paying for international male prostitution (which may be legal for all I know).  But, male gigolos' vulnerability is very small and just seems like a drop in the bucket of general prostitution.  Just one more thing to pick on women about?
Me

For the same reason that men are criticized (and often charged) for engaging the services of a prostitute.  Reading your conclusion that "male gigolos' vulnerability is very small and just seems like a drop in the bucket of general prostitution" seems to say that while people are suffering, because fewer men suffer than women, it is OK.  I would be interested to know your position on prostitution in general (and more specifically, men touring the third world for sex.)

But I guess the criticism is the double standard.  Women should feel no shame about going on vacation and paying for sex.  Men should be prosecuted.

One of the truths is that the man in the article who needed to prostitute himself to pay for the medicine had a choice and a means to pay for it..  Take away sex tourism and his "sugar mama" and suddenly he is dead of infection with no choices.  It is not pleasant, and it really does say something about the men and women who choose to go to these places, toss around a weeks salary and (for all intents and purposes) purchase a person for a week.  There is an imbalance in power- but is it any worse or more pronounced than that of a john in an American city and a woman who is addicted to drugs?  Maybe not.

Jojo

Quote from: WOTR on June 28, 2018, 12:33:47 AM
For the same reason that men are criticized (and often charged) for engaging the services of a prostitute.  Reading your conclusion that "male gigolos' vulnerability is very small and just seems like a drop in the bucket of general prostitution" seems to say that while people are suffering, because fewer men suffer than women, it is OK.  I would be interested to know your position on prostitution in general (and more specifically, men touring the third world for sex.)

But I guess the criticism is the double standard.  Women should feel no shame about going on vacation and paying for sex.  Men should be prosecuted.

One of the truths is that the man in the article who needed to prostitute himself to pay for the medicine had a choice and a means to pay for it..  Take away sex tourism and his "sugar mama" and suddenly he is dead of infection with no choices.  It is not pleasant, and it really does say something about the men and women who choose to go to these places, toss around a weeks salary and (for all intents and purposes) purchase a person for a week.  There is an imbalance in power- but is it any worse or more pronounced than that of a john in an American city and a woman who is addicted to drugs?  Maybe not.
I read your post, so don't think I'm being short.  Just joking.  If someone only reads one sentence of this, make sure it is the last sentence that is read, below.

Ok.  The article (not sure if you read the link or not) was very judgmental toward females who pay for sexual services for a variety of reasons.  But I guess it all just seemed kind of peripheral, since the males are not in mortal danger or danger of being beat hard.  That's all.  I can tell you're really thinking today.  What do I think?  I think when most people argue about prostitution, they forget about a lot of factors and just argue one level of ethics.  But, in arguing for or against prostitution, it's really crucial to consider all the factors, from how it affects one woman, how it affects her son, how it affects this thing called public good, how it costs society financially and socially, and how it affects the funding of infrastructure:

  I think it is very physically dangerous for the female.
  Most of the time, prostitution is illegal.  I think it's fair to say that just by virtue of being illegal, an activity can be morally objectionable.  Crime is never safe, as you have to deal with criminals whose values are not societal.
  It violates the consciences of most prostitutes (per their own literature).
  It sets a bad example about objectifying women, especially to boys.
  Most reliable contraceptives have back-up abortifacients in them, so there is that issue of unwitting abortion.
  Some buyers won't want to use condoms, so disease is a factor, even when the man gets home to another woman, his wife.
  Some buyers are married, so infidelity occurs.
  Some girls aren't smart enough to use birth control when prostitution opportunities arise, so they get pregnant which means little boys grow up without fathers.  And with mothers in jail at night.
  Some of the girls are trafficked, enslaved, underage.
  Some are beaten, yet can't seek police help because the beating was during the course of a complicit crime.
  Some are targeted by murderers, who consider the women expendable.
  Because prostitution violate their consciences, per their own literature, many girls seek emotional refuge in substance abuse.  Abuse they can barely afford, becoming involved in a lifestyle ridden with crime around them.
  Investigations, arrests and convictions come at taxpayer expense.
  In some jurisdictions, police officers are allowed to fully use prostitute's services prior to arresting her and on that basis alone, prostitution becomes appalling.
  Prostitution perpetuates the mentality of sleazy men, to the extent that some guys get the wrong idea and start to see every woman like that, increasing rapes and assaults in general.
  Many prostitutes are cheated out of the actual payment, or beaten out of it.
  Would you be a shopkeeper in a shop where shoplifting is akin to rape?  She has the prerogative to sell herself; but no man has the prerogative to steal her.  How a woman treats herself does not justify a man treating her that way.
  Many buyers want services that injure the female.
  The females are treated as expendable, "tissue girls", a loss of dignity.
  Usually when a buyer spends money, it goes into a system.  There are so many taxes involved at different levels of money changing hands, taxes that support emergency services, roads, schools, parks, justice, employment security, Social Security/Medicare, labor and industries, OSHA, etc...  But on the black market, the dollar spent does not contribute to "public good".
  Similarly, when a woman has a "regular" job, she has a safety net of unemployment insurance, food stamp eligibility, workplace injury insurance, and contributions into the Social Security system which are also somewhat matched by the government and earn interest or something like it for her future economic stability.
  Women should be paid as well as men for non-sexual services.  Like, women pay $40 for a man to mow a lawn for 45 minutes.  More than $20/hour.  Very few women can get $20/hour for non-sexual work.  I know the issue of equipment comes up, but a good vacuum costs as much as a lawn mower, is seldom repairable, & is usually dead in 5 years.  Plus, the woman pays exorbitant rates for vacuum repair, since small appliances are no longer maintainable.  While the man can maintain his own lawn mower.  As a prostitute, her working years/wages are limited, with none of these insurances.  Few women are able to save.  Looking the part of a low risk prostitute actually is quite expensive.

If you take all the dangers and economics out of the equation, though, there is still the bad example prostitution sets for societal relationship values.  It is cheap objectification, as traditionally, prostitutes fake the feelings they express, and many say they feel demeaned, soulless.  I've known women who get excited about the money in webcamming and phone sex, but I have yet to ever hear one proud prostitute.  Yet, there is a LOT of literature written by females who have escaped the poverty and drug cycle revolving around prostitution.

I don't think it's for me to try to dictate what other women do, but that these points should be carefully considered. 

To sum it up, it's not for me to decide.  But I don't like what it does to females and their sons, and society.  A good way to tell if a job is acceptable or not is to ask yourself, "Would I let my wife do it?"



WOTR

Quote from: 14 on June 28, 2018, 02:09:50 AM
I read your post, so don't think I'm being short.  Just joking.  If someone only reads one sentence of this, make sure it is the last sentence that is read, below.

To sum it up, it's not for me to decide.  But I don't like what it does to females and their sons, and society.  A good way to tell if a job is acceptable or not is to ask yourself, "Would I let my wife do it?"
Just a couple of thoughts.  A woman can run a lawnmower just the same as a man (My grandmother has switched from gas power to electric because she is getting very old... But even she can still do it.)  A woman can repair her own vacuum the same as a man maintains a mower (providing she is mechanically minded and has a manual.  I just replaced a few parts on my bissell steamer with parts from online for cheap.) 

I understand that more men mow grass than women.  And that more women vacuum houses than men.  More men also run construction equipment.  But I know women who do... And they make as good a living as the men (albeit most of them run the equipment that takes less skill such as packers and rock truck and make less than if they ran dozers or hoes.)

Anyhow, now we are getting sidetracked.  Yes, the article was judgmental.  But that is generally the case where prostitution is involved.  I think that author was upset because the women who travel and pay for sex generally don't see any issue (and society does not condemn the practice the same as it would if it were a man.) To me, the author was simply pointing out the double standard.

I would agree that the sex trade is not generally "good" for females or our society.  But that is what the author was saying about female sex tourism in third world countries.  It is not good for the men, the economy in general, or society... Something that the author seemed to think was glossed over by hypocrites willing to turn a blind eye to the practice.

When you say "But I guess it all just seemed kind of peripheral, since the males are not in mortal danger or danger of being beat hard", it makes me think that so long as women are safe in a nice little place in Vegas that it is fine?  But then, most of your arguments are focused on other aspects that hold true regardless of the prostitutes gender.

So, ignoring the woman being in danger of a beating, we still have lots of reasons you don't think that it is alright... But they all would seem to apply regardless of the gender of the "service provider."

"It violates the consciences of most prostitutes." I would think that the 18 year old man servicing a 300lb grandma might feel the same...

"It sets a bad example about objectifying women, especially to boy" I'm not certain that paying for sex with a man sets a great example for girls either.

"so disease is a factor, even when the man gets home to another woman, his wife." STD's are a two way street regardless of the gender of the provider.

"Some buyers are married, so infidelity occurs." I would think that there may be a few married women screwing their boy toy's on vacation...

"  Because prostitution violate their consciences, per their own literature, many girls seek emotional refuge in substance abuse.  Abuse they can barely afford, becoming involved in a lifestyle ridden with crime around them."  Again, I have to assume that at least a few of the guys servicing old ladies for cash might be violating their consciences.


There were more- but I'll skip them.  Short of the physical danger, I would say that the majority of your comments where you judge prostitution to be bad can be applied to either gender.  But you were not happy that the author would dare to judge the women who engage in this activity and use young men for their pleasure... It just seems like a double standard when you see what you preceive as the evils of prostitution, and state that "Prostitution perpetuates the mentality of sleazy men" while ignoring the sleazy women who engage in the same behaviour.

WOTR

Quote from: GravitySucks on June 28, 2018, 03:42:07 AM
WTF?
In short... "Dear cracker.  Please don't buy the shirts that I'm selling.  I only wish to sell to those who are aboriginal."

I would buy the shirt just for the argument, and then return it unworn the next day.  Yes, I'm a bastard.

*That said, I would like to know what shop this was.  I'm still cynical enough to wonder if somebody made it just to upset others and if it is not "real" (probably not... But one can hope.)

GravitySucks

Quote from: WOTR on June 28, 2018, 04:07:17 AM
In short... "Dear cracker.  Please don't buy the shirts that I'm selling.  I only wish to sell to those who are aboriginal."

I would buy the shirt just for the argument, and then return it unworn the next day.  Yes, I'm a bastard.

*That said, I would like to know what shop this was.  I'm still cynical enough to wonder if somebody made it just to upset others and if it is not "real" (probably not... But one can hope.)

https://www.reddit.com/r/SocialJusticeInAction/comments/8u3bo8/english_is_the_language_of_people_like_myself_use/?ref=readnext


https://www.nalgonapositivitypride.com

WOTR




Jojo

Quote from: WOTR on June 28, 2018, 04:02:18 AM
Just a couple of thoughts.  A woman can run a lawnmower just the same as a man (My grandmother has switched from gas power to electric because she is getting very old... But even she can still do it.)  A woman can repair her own vacuum the same as a man maintains a mower (providing she is mechanically minded and has a manual.  I just replaced a few parts on my bissell steamer with parts from online for cheap.) 

I understand that more men mow grass than women.  And that more women vacuum houses than men.  More men also run construction equipment.  But I know women who do... And they make as good a living as the men (albeit most of them run the equipment that takes less skill such as packers and rock truck and make less than if they ran dozers or hoes.)

Anyhow, now we are getting sidetracked.  Yes, the article was judgmental.  But that is generally the case where prostitution is involved.  I think that author was upset because the women who travel and pay for sex generally don't see any issue (and society does not condemn the practice the same as it would if it were a man.) To me, the author was simply pointing out the double standard.

I would agree that the sex trade is not generally "good" for females or our society.  But that is what the author was saying about female sex tourism in third world countries.  It is not good for the men, the economy in general, or society... Something that the author seemed to think was glossed over by hypocrites willing to turn a blind eye to the practice.

When you say "But I guess it all just seemed kind of peripheral, since the males are not in mortal danger or danger of being beat hard", it makes me think that so long as women are safe in a nice little place in Vegas that it is fine?  But then, most of your arguments are focused on other aspects that hold true regardless of the prostitutes gender.

So, ignoring the woman being in danger of a beating, we still have lots of reasons you don't think that it is alright... But they all would seem to apply regardless of the gender of the "service provider."

"It violates the consciences of most prostitutes." I would think that the 18 year old man servicing a 300lb grandma might feel the same...

"It sets a bad example about objectifying women, especially to boy" I'm not certain that paying for sex with a man sets a great example for girls either.

"so disease is a factor, even when the man gets home to another woman, his wife." STD's are a two way street regardless of the gender of the provider.

"Some buyers are married, so infidelity occurs." I would think that there may be a few married women screwing their boy toy's on vacation...

"  Because prostitution violate their consciences, per their own literature, many girls seek emotional refuge in substance abuse.  Abuse they can barely afford, becoming involved in a lifestyle ridden with crime around them."  Again, I have to assume that at least a few of the guys servicing old ladies for cash might be violating their consciences.


There were more- but I'll skip them.  Short of the physical danger, I would say that the majority of your comments where you judge prostitution to be bad can be applied to either gender.  But you were not happy that the author would dare to judge the women who engage in this activity and use young men for their pleasure... It just seems like a double standard when you see what you preceive as the evils of prostitution, and state that "Prostitution perpetuates the mentality of sleazy men" while ignoring the sleazy women who engage in the same behaviour.
I tried to minimize gender because you asked my opinion on prostitution, not on female prostitution.  I guess I just didn't like the article.  Women are constantly picked on.  Sleazy women who objectify men are not doing great, yet the concern about how it affects men seems really peripheral, all things considered.  The article should have acknowledged the way ordinary prostitution from male travelers also has all the same effects, and worse.

By the way, it is a much larger strain for a woman to run a mower.  Strain increases the risk of pelvic prolapse, which screws up men's sex life.  There is no cure, and eventual surgery, a mortal risk, only has a 50% success rate.  I realize there are ways to mow lawns safely for women (smaller mowers would be a good start), but not every woman has the money for self-propelled or whatever.

Your views don't sound that far from mine overall.  Good for your steamer.  It's an anomaly... :P.
Me

Metron2267

Quote from: 14 on June 27, 2018, 11:01:28 PM
Can't stop 'til I get enough!  Which one are you again??
Me

Nice work making yourself look mentally un-alert or possibly just daft.

The false query is summarily rejected as you're more than able to determine just who I am and precisely what I've said to you, even at the expense of me requoting my replies until you own up to your continuity gaffes. >:(

Metron2267

Quote from: 14 on June 28, 2018, 02:09:50 AM
But I guess it all just seemed kind of peripheral, since the males are not in mortal danger or danger of being beat hard.  That's all.

Huh...just as when in combat a captured male soldier is more likely to be physically beaten by the enemy while a female captive soldier is exponentially more likely to be raped, yes?


QuoteA good way to tell if a job is acceptable or not is to ask yourself, "Would I let my wife do it?"

By that metric I'd have to pass on armed forces service completely as women are now allowed in combat.
8)

Metron2267

Quote from: WOTR on June 28, 2018, 04:29:46 AM
Some days I want to wipe out the human race. How the hell did we ever get here?

Alien ant farm - duh. 8)

Metron2267


QuoteWomen are constantly picked on.

Classic victim mentality distortion lens.

QuoteBy the way, it is a much larger strain for a woman to run a mower.  Strain increases the risk of pelvic prolapse, which screws up men's sex life.  There is no cure, and eventual surgery, a mortal risk, only has a 50% success rate.  I realize there are ways to mow lawns safely for women (smaller mowers would be a good start), but not every woman has the money for self-propelled or whatever.

That is 100% pure unadulterated rhetorical BULLSHIT! >:(

Go on any Craigslist and you'll find an adequate self-propelled lawnmower at a completely affordable price.

Claim REJECTED!

QuoteYour views don't sound that far from mine overall.  Good for your steamer.  It's an anomaly... :P.
Me

You my dear are quite koo koo! :o





Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 14 on June 28, 2018, 02:11:55 AM
I know what sign you are.
Me

Just out of curiosity how are you able to tell my sign from me posting the cover of a Marilyn Chambers movie?  ???

Metron2267

Astrology is so full of mystery isn't it?

Now if you'd posted an Aunt Peg cover, well...

We won't go there. :-[

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