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President Donald J. Trump

Started by The General, February 11, 2011, 01:33:34 AM

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:59:12 AM
Do unto others as you would have them do unto you.  I live by that. By the way, Christ did follow the Torah and go to Sabbath but had little use for pharisees.


I could say more but I try not to proselytize on Bellgab.

I have to suspend my disbelief to even have this conversation. I'm just saying if you think he was real he was, if anything, a guy who was willing to have himself nailed to a cross to fight that kind of power.  ;)


Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 02:08:00 AM
I have to suspend my disbelief to even have this conversation. I'm just saying if you think he was real he was, if anything, a guy who was willing to have himself nailed to a cross to fight that kind of power.  ;)

That is not why he was nailed to the cross but really again I don't want to preach on here.  I'll just say this. He died so that we might live.  I don't know what all that entails but I'l find out when I "die".  Because there is another life and this is just a holodeck game we are playing in.  Of that I'm certain. This life is nothing but a trifle but maybe we can learn something from it.

Up All Night

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 01:16:53 AM
Sometimes I try to imagine what the world would be like now if Israel never happened. Given that the surviving Jews would've eventually settled somewhere (I know they weren't allowed to for over a year but I see that as part of the theater necessary to make their case for Israel ;)) it always seems more positive and hopeful. I mean no slight against Jews but imaging the creativity and productivity that might be freed up if we didn't have to constantly concentrate on this "foreign policy" problem.

Almighty God chose Israel. You'll have to ask Him why he chose them.

But, whomever God would have selected as His chosen people, by default, they would have become particularly hated by God's angelic enemy, the fallen Arch-Angel Satan.

So, the what ifs about what kind of world we've have if there was no Israel and Jerusalem are parlor games, because even under a different people, and even a different capital city, it would still be the foreign policy hot potato, as Satan would be stirring up hatred against God's people and capital city, whomever and wherever they were...

Because, that's what Satan does. He makes good use of the Muslim world to do just that.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 02:16:37 AM
That is not why he was nailed to the cross but really again I don't want to preach on here.  I'll just say this. He died so that we might live.  I don't know what all that entails but I'l find out when I "die".  Because there is another life and this is just a holodeck game we are playing in.  Of that I'm certain. This life is nothing but a trifle but maybe we can learn something from it.

It most certainly was the reason. It's pretty clear in the text that JC was a radical SJW of his time, fighting against the oppressive powers of both the Roman and the Jewish establishment of his day. Yes, he believed he was on a mission from God to do so. You may believe the same but that's not the point. Whether he was the son of God or not it's clear he was a man who fought against the oppressive political forces of his time.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: Up All Night on December 06, 2017, 02:27:25 AM
Almighty God chose Israel. You'll have to ask Him why he chose them.

But, whomever God would have selected as His chosen people, by default, they would have become particularly hated by God's angelic enemy, the fallen Arch-Angel Satan.

So, the what ifs about what kind of world we've have if there was no Israel and Jerusalem are parlor games, because even under a different people, and even a different capital city, it would still be the foreign policy hot potato, as Satan would be stirring up hatred against God's people and capital city, whomever and wherever they were...

Because, that's what Satan does. He makes good use of the Muslim world to do just that.

Well, that's one theory.

paladin1991

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:59:12 AM

I could say more but I try not to proselytize on Bellgab.
Kinda like spitting into the wind.

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 02:43:38 AM
It most certainly was the reason. It's pretty clear in the text that JC was a radical SJW of his time, fighting against the oppressive powers of both the Roman and the Jewish establishment of his day. Yes, he believed he was on a mission from God to do so. You may believe the same but that's not the point. Whether he was the son of God or not it's clear he was a man who fought against the oppressive political forces of his time.


You are mixing him up with the zealots such as those that killed themselves on Masada.  Jesus had no quarrel with Rome or even Herod.  Herod was threatened by him because he was a king but Jesus was not a king of this world. Jesus never took up a sword against King Herod or Rome.


Jerusalem was the capital of Israel and is again the capital of Israel as it should be.  It is right that we recognize it for what it is.  If the Arabs don't like it well tough titty.  They can have the rest of the desert.  The Jews made the land prosperous and fertile and it would be nothing more than a barren wasteland under other stewards.

Up All Night

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 03:12:26 AM
Jerusalem was the capital of Israel and is again the capital of Israel as it should be.  It is right that we recognize it for what it is.  If the Arabs don't like it well tough titty.  They can have the rest of the desert.  The Jews made the land prosperous and fertile and it would be nothing more than a barren wasteland under other stewards.

Democratic Minority Senate Leader Chuck Schumer:

“As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem."

Schumer said the move would "appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/363465-schumer-advised-trump-on-declaring-jerusalem-as-israels-capital

Quote from: Up All Night on December 06, 2017, 03:14:15 AM
Democratic Minority Senate Leader Chuck Schumer:

“As someone who strongly believes that Jerusalem is the undivided capital of Israel, I am calling for the US Embassy in Israel to be relocated to Jerusalem."

Schumer said the move would "appropriately commemorate the fiftieth anniversary of Jerusalem’s reunification and show the world that the US definitively acknowledges Jerusalem as Israel’s capital.”

http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/363465-schumer-advised-trump-on-declaring-jerusalem-as-israels-capital

On that, I agree with Chuckie.  It is not the first time I've agreed with him but maybe the 2nd or 3rd time.  lol.

Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 03:04:03 AM

You are mixing him up with the zealots such as those that killed themselves on Masada.  Jesus had no quarrel with Rome or even Herod.  Herod was threatened by him because he was a king but not a king of this world.

I really don't think so. The way I see it spirituality (if there is such a thing) isn't about getting something (like an afterlife or eternal life) but being part of something bigger and more important...and that's how he socially, as a species, tried to move us toward God, if there is a God, by giving us a way to be able to come together through transcendence and overcome evil.



Dr. MD MD

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 03:12:26 AM
The Jews made the land prosperous and fertile and it would be nothing more than a barren wasteland under other stewards.

Really?! They did all that?! Wow! They must be the chosen people...kinda like superheroes or something.  :o

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $127.4 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance.

::)

136 or 142

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 06:18:46 AM
Really?! They did all that?! Wow! They must be the chosen people...kinda like superheroes or something.  :o

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $127.4 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance.

::)

Every empire that’s enslaved him is gone
Egypt and Rome, even the great Babylon
He’s made a garden of paradise in the desert sand
In bed with nobody, under no one’s command

He’s the neighborhood bully

Now his holiest books have been trampled upon
No contract he signed was worth what it was written on
He took the crumbs of the world and he turned it into wealth
Took sickness and disease and he turned it into health

He’s the neighborhood bully

Swishypants

Quote from: Dr. MD MD on December 06, 2017, 06:18:46 AM
Really?! They did all that?! Wow! They must be the chosen people...kinda like superheroes or something.  :o

https://fas.org/sgp/crs/mideast/RL33222.pdf

Israel is the largest cumulative recipient of U.S. foreign assistance since World War II. To date, the United States has provided Israel $127.4 billion (current, or non-inflation-adjusted, dollars) in bilateral assistance. Almost all U.S. bilateral aid to Israel is in the form of military assistance, although in the past Israel also received significant economic assistance.

::)

Hey WHORE! I hope your Christmas sucks ass; dingleberry little anal-piss!  ;D

The so-called Palestinians may well hold the current title as the world's most detestable people, but are things going so well for Trump, and for the US in the world right now, that he (and we) need the fallout from this?  How does this help, say, the current rapproachement between the Saudis and Israelis, or encourage others to join their effort against Iran and on other issues?  Turkey is going to have a large voice in what ultimately happens in Syria (at some point), how is this going to help the US viewpoint when it comes to those discussions?  Next time the US asks some Arab country to do something that would be politically difficult for them, say in the fight against terrorism, how does this encourage the response we'd like to get?  And etc.

What benefit is there to our country in doing this?  Are the Israelis even asking for it?  Are the generals he appointed, or his foreign policy experts advocating this?  (I'm nearly certain the answer is 'No', although Pence and a few other Christians on staff with their own set of blinders probably think it a grand idea)

This is just yet another example of a tin ear and general lack of temperment and thoughtfulness.  A lack of a worldview regarding anything outside hs own little empire.  More needless eigth grade level thumb-in-the-eye bluster, again from an apparent position of needing to compensate.  If it's ''to keep a campaign promise'', there are quite a few other items on that list he needs to start leading on that are more important than damaging the future ability to conduct important foreign policy, and cause more unrest for no reason. 
To me this is very telling.  He ought to resign.

Up All Night

Quote from: 21st Century Man on December 06, 2017, 01:03:57 AM
It is not Palestinean territory. There was no Palestine before Israel settled there.

Correct !

The PLO was established in 1964..... before the 1967 Jerusalem border change.

So, what that means, is the PLO's goal is not a divided pre-1967 Jerusalem, but  a "Palestine," free from ALL Jews. Pre-1948.

The PLO does not want and does not seek a two-state solution.

The PLO wants a one-state solution -- for them.

And a no-state solution for Israel in the Middle East.


Quote from: Up All Night on December 06, 2017, 10:31:48 AM
Correct !

The PLO was established in 1964..... before the 1967 Jerusalem border change.

So, what that means, is the PLO's goal is not a divided pre-1967 Jerusalem, but  a "Palestine" free from ALL Jews. Pre 1948.

The PLO does not want and does not seek a two-state solution.

The PLO want a one-state solution -- for them.

And a no-state solution for Israel in the Middle East.

All true.  But none of that has any bearing on whether moving the embassy is in the best interest of our country

Jackstar

Quote from: Swishypants on December 06, 2017, 09:58:38 AM
hope your Christmas sucks ass; dingleberry little anal-piss!

Still--superior to a Clinton presidency.



Quote from: Swishypants on December 06, 2017, 09:58:38 AM
  ;D

Get the gas.

Jackstar

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 06, 2017, 10:25:15 AM
What benefit is there to our country in doing this?


That whole thing where the U.S. has been co-opted by crypto-fascist Hyksos is just, like, completely lost on you, huh?

Read a book. Get two, they're small.

Up All Night

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 06, 2017, 10:40:27 AM
All true.  But none of that has any bearing on whether moving the embassy is in the best interest of our country

Well, the first step is for the US, by way of the President, to declare Jerusalem the Capital of Israel.

The move of our Embassy to the Capital will physically come later.

BTY, how will this this declaration that Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, affect any future US citizen born in Jerusalem, as regards their US Passport stating their place of birth as "Jerusalem, Israel" vs. what was considered PC before, to state only "Israel"?

I thought Trump was elected to control the border, pass sensible immigration legislation, restructure the budget and tax code, conduct sensible foreign policy, and so on. 

And he's done some of that.  Which is more than what we'd have gotten from Hilary Clinton.

But seriously, what is the point of relaxing the rules on coal so the mining companies can start destroying water systems again?  Or removing the ban on importing big game trophies.  Or turning beautiful sacred Indian land back over to those who would pave over it or go tear-assing around on it on dirt bikes.  Or reversing the net neutrality rules.  How does any of this do anything except make him look exactly like what the pretend media is only too happy to portray him as?  And drag down the rest of his party with him?  The only reason he did any of it was because Obama implemented it.  Overcompensating.

Now he's intentionally provoking unrest in the Middle East.  For no benefit to anyone.

This stuff builds up, accumulates unseen in polls.  It really turns off significant sectors of voters who were inclined to vote for him this time around, and people who mostly voted for him because they found Hilary Clinton to be dishonest and untrustworthy.  Even at that, he barely squeaked by - a fact he apparently doesn't acknowledge, and a situation he isn't working to strengthen.  What happens when these people stay home next time, or vote for a better Democrat candidate?  What happens in the elections next year, when we've had a second year of this garbage?

Quote from: Up All Night on December 06, 2017, 10:52:10 AM
Well, the first step is for the US, by way of the President, to declare Jerusalem the Capital of Israel.

The move of our Embassy to the Capital will physically come later.

BTY, how will this this declaration that Jerusalem is the Capital of Israel, affect any future US citizen born in Jerusalem, as regards their US Passport stating their place of birth as "Jerusalem, Israel" vs. what was considered PC before, to state only "Israel"?

The qustion was, what benefit is this to our country?

Quote from: Jackstar on December 06, 2017, 10:48:16 AM

That whole thing where the U.S. has been co-opted by crypto-fascist Hyksos is just, like, completely lost on you, huh?

Read a book. Get two, they're small.

The qustion was, what benefit is this to our country?

Kidnostad3

Quote from: PB the Deplorable on December 06, 2017, 10:40:27 AM
All true.  But none of that has any bearing on whether moving the embassy is in the best interest of our country


The eventual move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem has been official U.S. policy since ‘95 and presidential candidates have been promising to do that since the 60s.  It’s a bargaining chip and a way to pressure the Palestinean Authority into reaching some sort of agreement with Israel.  It’s a bold stroke and I think it’s brilliant.

Please don’t argue that it’s going to enrage Arabs that are already enraged, cause a serious or falling out with our Arab allies and result in Armageddon.  That’s bullshit.  There will be objections by some Islamic states for public consumption and Hezbollah and Hamas will do some acting out.  So what’s new?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/flashback-all-the-times-past-presidents-promised-to-move-us-embassy-to-jerusalem/


Up All Night

PB, the horse is already out of the barn. Do you want to pretend that it's not??

Plus, I feel it's the right thing to do.

You sound like someone that would play appeasement to NK to avoid inflaming that region.

Trump has already grown a pair to handle this and NK, so you don't have to...

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on December 06, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

The eventual move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem has been official U.S. policy since ‘95 and presidential candidates have been promising to do that since the 60s.  It’s a bargaining chip and a way to pressure the Palestinean Authority into reaching some sort of agreement with Israel.  It’s a bold stroke and I think it’s brilliant.

Please don’t argue that it’s going to enrage Arabs that are already enraged, cause a serious or falling out with our Arab allies and result in Armageddon.  That’s bullshit.  There will be objections by some Islamic states for public consumption and Hezbollah and Hamas will do some acting out.  So what’s new?

http://dailycaller.com/2017/12/06/flashback-all-the-times-past-presidents-promised-to-move-us-embassy-to-jerusalem/

Quote from: Kidnostad3 on December 06, 2017, 11:06:54 AM

The eventual move of the U.S. embassy to Jerusalem has been official U.S. policy since ‘95 and presidential candidates have been promising to do that since the 60s.  It’s a bargaining chip and a way to pressure the Palestinean Authority into reaching some sort of agreement with Israel.  It’s a bold stroke and I think it’s brilliant...

I'm aware of US policy. 

If you think it's some sort of bargaining chip, what did we get for it?  What are we going to do, move the embassy somewhere else if the Palestinians do something we want?  I'm not seeing the bargaining chip idea.

How is it brilliant - other than Trump did it and everything he does is somehow brilliant?  Which get us back to the original question of how does this benefit us? 

Please tell me, I'd love to know.  In fact the reasoning doesn't even have to support ''brilliant'', I'd settle for anything positive

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