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is tonights show awesome?

yes
156 (65%)
no
36 (15%)
maybe
32 (13.3%)
other
16 (6.7%)

Total Members Voted: 218

Author 20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission  (Read 87235 times)

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Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #870 on: September 28, 2013, 02:13:34 PM »

I did things in the past that I am not proud of and I would never do again. But I learned and changed for the better. Given my history where I was given a chance by a judge, shouldn't SDM be given the same ?
But go ahead and keep hating the guy.
I haven't seen his side of the story anywhere.
Have you ?
As an aside, I listened to one of Art's shows with SDM and SDM predicted that there would be turmoil in the 2000 election. He got that partially right and was wrong when he predicted that Clinton would not only resign from office but also would divorce the Hildebeast.
He didn't think about once these people taste power, they never want to give it up.

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #871 on: September 28, 2013, 03:21:44 PM »
If someone called my wife a hildebeast, I would kick their ass.
Heh
Confession: The "latino" male in me thinks to whup whoevers calls The Mrs.a cutie, or checks her quality packaging. But half are female and I'm in the same boat as the remainders, so I relax. Deeply ingrained me thinks.

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #872 on: September 28, 2013, 03:22:06 PM »
If someone called my wife a hildebeast, I would kick their ass.
Hillary always reminded me of a braying donkey and not because she's a Democrat.
Pelosi does that to me to whenever I hear her.
And I didn't coin the word, someone else did.
I hate the crop of shrewish pols in the Democratic Party like DiFi et all.
I didn't like DiFi when she was a Mayor and she's bad for the country.


Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #873 on: September 28, 2013, 03:30:33 PM »
looks like I didn't delete the post quick enough.


Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #874 on: September 28, 2013, 03:53:51 PM »
looks like I didn't delete the post quick enough.
Damn straight you didn't. (Returns pistol to holster)

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #875 on: September 28, 2013, 04:36:43 PM »
What I was asking is how long do you continue to punish someone for a crime or something that amounts to a civil penalty once they've made restitution.
Forever ?
The short answer it "yes."  We are not talking about breaking out the whip nor publicly shunning the guy- just denying him access to new potential victims (at least for a year following his conviction.)  I seem to recall that Oates had been ordered to make restitution to Art- and it has been a blasted decade.  Yet when Noory had him on there was not a soul on this board who thought that he deserved a second chance (and as far as I can tell, Oates only hurt one family- Art's.)   Because we feel that we know Art we sympathize with him and do not suggest that the man should be given a second chance. 

This character has hurt numerous people.  "Restitution" or not- it was likely too late for some of his victims (have you ever seen what this type of crime can really do to people who already have very little?)  Yet it seems that you are advocating that we all forgive, forget and potentially allow him back.

I have no problem with forgiveness (hell, he did not hurt me and I cannot imagine that I would fall for his crap at any point in my life, so there really is nothing for me, personally, to forgive.)  However, this is a moral call that Art has made, and I applaud him for it.  Art has (apparently) decided that the risks (his audience members loosing millions to a known con man and having their lives suffer for it) outweigh the benefit of allowing a single, solitary guest to be on his show.  I cannot imagine that SDM has enough value (entertainment wise or information wise) that he cannot be replaced by any one of 1000 other hucksters who predict the future and have not been convicted by the SEC for fraud in 2013.

Finally, I find no proof that he has made restitution.  Usually, this type of fraudster will continue to fight to prevent paying by exhausting all legal channels and force people to get it out of them.  If he willingly handed over 11 million in the last couple of months, I find no evidence of it.  I see no basis for your post questioning how long you continue to persecute somebody who has made restitution...

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #876 on: September 28, 2013, 07:32:42 PM »
The short answer it "yes."  We are not talking about breaking out the whip nor publicly shunning the guy- just denying him access to new potential victims (at least for a year following his conviction.)  I seem to recall that Oates had been ordered to make restitution to Art- and it has been a blasted decade.  Yet when Noory had him on there was not a soul on this board who thought that he deserved a second chance (and as far as I can tell, Oates only hurt one family- Art's.)   Because we feel that we know Art we sympathize with him and do not suggest that the man should be given a second chance. 

This character has hurt numerous people.  "Restitution" or not- it was likely too late for some of his victims (have you ever seen what this type of crime can really do to people who already have very little?)  Yet it seems that you are advocating that we all forgive, forget and potentially allow him back.

I have no problem with forgiveness (hell, he did not hurt me and I cannot imagine that I would fall for his crap at any point in my life, so there really is nothing for me, personally, to forgive.)  However, this is a moral call that Art has made, and I applaud him for it.  Art has (apparently) decided that the risks (his audience members loosing millions to a known con man and having their lives suffer for it) outweigh the benefit of allowing a single, solitary guest to be on his show.  I cannot imagine that SDM has enough value (entertainment wise or information wise) that he cannot be replaced by any one of 1000 other hucksters who predict the future and have not been convicted by the SEC for fraud in 2013.

Finally, I find no proof that he has made restitution.  Usually, this type of fraudster will continue to fight to prevent paying by exhausting all legal channels and force people to get it out of them.  If he willingly handed over 11 million in the last couple of months, I find no evidence of it.  I see no basis for your post questioning how long you continue to persecute somebody who has made restitution...
NO, I am not advocating that we forgive him for his actions of the past.
But ... until we hear why he did it and if he's made restitution or not ( and * I * have not heard that he hasn't ) we need to think about his side of the matter.
And no one has since everyone is so quick to judge him.
He has a podcast. Why not calll his call in number and ask him directly for an explanation instead of speculating or fomenting over him.

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #877 on: September 28, 2013, 08:28:20 PM »
If the guy could not be bothered to defend himself in court- where he would face penalties for misleading and outright lying, I am not going to ask him to explain himself.  Why would you ask a con man to explain to you what he had a chance to explain to a court but refused?  It was a default judgment against him.  The press release states "The defendants never properly answered the allegations in the complaint. Instead, the Mortons filed dozens of papers with the Court claiming, for instance, that the Commission is a private entity that has no jurisdiction over them, and that the staff attorneys working on the case do not exist."

Does this sound like a man whose word you want to take at face value?  (For which matter, does it sound like a man who is likely to have returned the money to his victims?)  He had ample opportunity to give his side of the story in a forum that would be judged and where he was legally prohibited from lying and refused.  If a con man refuses to give his story to the court I see no reason why I should be expected to believe him if he chooses to give his side of the story on his own podcast.

Sorry- but I think we are going to be stuck on opposite sides of the fence on this issue.  I will accept the court ruling that he is a con man who defrauded investors.  Again, I point out that we are not talking about somebody who has reformed years ago and repented.  We are talking about somebody who was convicted earlier this year.

Coast to Coast had it's name tied in with Morton in news paper articles and by the SEC.  It could be that Art does not want to risk having his name tied in with Morton by giving him a platform the next time something like this comes down.  It could be that he is protecting himself and not just his listeners.  Either way, I am glad that Morton was cancelled.

What value do you believe that Morton would bring to the program that is worth Art risking his name and the financial well being of his more gullible listeners to bring on Morton (or is it just a matter that we should learn to forgive as a society and that he should not have to pay for his crimes with more than a month or two of people refusing him a platform?) 

As I said, I think we will be on opposite sides on this one.  I am happy not to hear Morton and see no reason to waste my time calling a known fraudster and asking for his side of the story in a forum where he controlls what is said and what his listners hear.  On the other hand, if you are worried that he is getting an unfair shake, call and ask.  I would email him the questions and post the answers here, but he has taken his site down...

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #878 on: September 28, 2013, 10:45:16 PM »
I'm busy with dinner and then an enforced nap ( why didn't someone tell us naps were a part of getting old ? ).
But I didn't know about Morton's site being taken down. I was able to access it somewhere in the last day or 2.
Morton's position about the SEC may be in the similar vein that people claim that the IRS has no authority to collect taxes. Neither you or I can know why he chose not to appear in court, but it just might be because he felt he would not get a fair shake in it. I fought a case for 4 years because judges would not listen to my side & I kept being dragged off to jail because I was too sick to appear in court even with letters and phone calls made to the presiding judge. It wasn't until I was dragged off to jail the second time that I got the judge in the jail who saw the huge amount of paperwork involved and how many times the case had gone to court and finally dismissed the whole matter in the interests of justice. And that was over a traffic accident and not a criminal case.
As a society we've forgotten how to apply the spirit of the law and let the letter of the law rule and money as well. Thats why people complain that a large %age of people in prison are sent there because they are poor and not because their case did not have merit or could have been properly defended in court.

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #879 on: September 28, 2013, 10:56:05 PM »
Yabut what did SDM think of RCH's interview on Dark Matter?

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #880 on: September 29, 2013, 03:21:58 AM »
I should probably stop polluting an Art Bell thread with this... and if Morton responds I promise to start a new thread (his old site is down, but he still has the radio site and I did send an invitation to respond to the charges / question of the safety / return of his investors $$$.)

The fact is that if a court case and a 3 year SEC investigation will not convince you, there is little that will.  I will not allow a  pedophile near kids, will not allow a con man near my mother nor grandparents and am happy that Art is not allowing Morton access to a large audience. 

From UFO watchdog: The Mortons later filed with the court blaming their failure to appear on weather conditions on the east coast and that the court had not provided them with ways "to defray the costs of airfare, hotel and travel costs to appear in a jurisdiction that is Foreign/Non-Domestic to the State of New York, New York State, the federal Southern District of New York and to the domicile of the de jure State Nationals of the California Republic."  The document appears to be faxed from what The Mortons refer to as the Republic of New Lemuria.

If the fucker is responding from the Republic of New Lemuria (I will leave you to do your won research on this crackpot thought that Morton is now ambassador of...) and wants the taxpayer to fund his trip (when he still is holding 6 million that he defrauded investors) I would have to say that he is not returning the money.

I cannot imagine that you would allow your kids near a convicted pedophile just because he did not testify in court to tell his own story.  What if he is innocent and you are preventing him from earning an honest living as a babysitter for your children?  Somebody should probably ask him his side of the story before denying him access to school children...

At this point I am trying to decide if you are just bating me or if you honestly believe what you are typing about needing to be absolutely certain that he is is guilty (as though you or I will be a better judge based on Mortons response than a court judge who has access to mounds of evidence.)  Or, "What if the poor dear has reformed- should we keep punishing him?"  (Again, I point out that Art not allowing him on his show does not amount to unfair punishment.)  I have been friends with murderers, drug dealers and prostitutes.  I do not think that a "bad" person is all "bad" and some of these people were actually very nice people (though with certain exceptions, I would not want most of them in my home...)  By the same token, I never introduced these people to my family nor to any other friends who I would consider vulnerable. 

I will allow you the last word as I refuse to rise to the bait any longer and if you honestly believe what you are typing I would be very surprised and believe that we have to end this line in the conversation with a disagreement on this subject.

***For the love of all that is holy; I believe Morton may even be lying about being an ambassador of New Lemuria...  There is no mention of him as an ambassador on the crackpots governments site and no announcements on their "government crackpot information services.  I suppose you may as well just keep lying once you start...  THIS is the man you want Art to allow on his show???

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #881 on: September 29, 2013, 04:44:34 AM »
I will agree that you completely fail to understand what I have been typing and show you lack of understanding by compounding it with saying that * I * said that I wish SDM to be a guest on the show which is a direct lie.
With the exception of sociopaths who are incurable, many convicts and prisoners have reformed, gone on to productive lives and felt true remorse for their crimes.
It's obvious that YOU are seemingly incapable of understanding that fact and furthermore that SDM is also worthy of that consideration sometime in the future should he also reform and make restitution.
There's no point to continuing this discussion further, though I am honest enough to admit that I would have been interested in hearing SDM address these charges as posed to him by Art as I am sure he would have done if it had not caused many other problems in doing so.
Perhaps one day in the future Art can have a one and one interview session with SDM on this issue and not give him any opportunity to bring up any other issue.
AND in case you have forgotten someone brought up this subject and this ENTIRE bloody board IS an Art Bell discussion site and I cannot think of any subject more worthy of discussion as to reasons and underlying causes for Art's cancelling or refusing to have a guest that he had on before on multiple occasions.
Or is this board only for subjects or discussions that YOU approve of because of a sense of morality or outrage where no alternative discussion is to be allowed ?
There's two words for that.
Censorship ... and elitism.
And somewhere in there is fairness which is sorely lacking in your posts.
Nor is any sense of compassion for the wrongdoer who may not have acted out of malice but who may well have believed he could give people the type of percentage returns that he promised.
I don't know. I've not read the court case or transcript.
Nor has anyone on this board heard SDM's reasoning.

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #882 on: September 29, 2013, 06:31:13 AM »
When you need a pick me up, everyone loves bubbles.


Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #883 on: September 29, 2013, 07:04:51 AM »
Or is this board only for subjects or discussions that YOU approve of because of a sense of morality or outrage where no alternative discussion is to be allowed ?
There's two words for that.
Censorship ... and elitism.
Well, at least I had a good laugh... and I do honestly appreciate it.  I have created another thread just for this topic and I will discuss it with you until we are both blue in the face... I honestly do not mind- but I feel you may become frustrated with my "lack of understanding, sense of morality and outrage, censorship, elitism, lack of compassion and lack of fairness" that you will find inherent in my posts.  Perhaps my only redeeming quality is that I do have a thick skin and am honestly smiling as I type this.   If you care to discuss my mental state or attributes (or lack thereof), or even if you want to talk more about Morton I can be found here... http://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=4726.0 

My only point was that you and I are both polluting a thread that was supposed to be dedicated to Arts discussion with Hoagland from the 19th.  According to the description on the subforum "This section is for live Dark Matter shows to be discussed in real time. A new thread for each broadcast."  Both of us seem to be discussing something completely unrelated to the show and certainly not in real time.  I could be wrong- but there is a pretty good chance that people who came here to discuss Hoagland and Art do not want to wade through pages of two people bickering back and fourth...

Re: 9/19/2013 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #884 on: September 29, 2013, 01:02:51 PM »
Well, at least I had a good laugh... and I do honestly appreciate it.  I have created another thread just for this topic and I will discuss it with you until we are both blue in the face... I honestly do not mind- but I feel you may become frustrated with my "lack of understanding, sense of morality and outrage, censorship, elitism, lack of compassion and lack of fairness" that you will find inherent in my posts.  Perhaps my only redeeming quality is that I do have a thick skin and am honestly smiling as I type this.   If you care to discuss my mental state or attributes (or lack thereof), or even if you want to talk more about Morton I can be found here... http://bellgab.com/index.php?topic=4726.0 

My only point was that you and I are both polluting a thread that was supposed to be dedicated to Arts discussion with Hoagland from the 19th.  According to the description on the subforum "This section is for live Dark Matter shows to be discussed in real time. A new thread for each broadcast."  Both of us seem to be discussing something completely unrelated to the show and certainly not in real time.  I could be wrong- but there is a pretty good chance that people who came here to discuss Hoagland and Art do not want to wade through pages of two people bickering back and fourth...
Point made and taken. You know my feelings. I'm done on this subject. However, I rhink you're wrong about your interpretation of the DM section in this case because SDM was due to be a guest and was cancelled and I think it was mentioned in this section so it was relevant to the section. I'd look it up but have had a sinus headache for 2 days in a row and right now my head is killing me. I'm out of here for now.

Re: 20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #885 on: April 13, 2016, 11:50:16 AM »
Just posting in here because I can.

Re: 20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #886 on: April 13, 2016, 11:55:43 AM »
Just posting in here because I can.

You ANIMAL!

Re: 20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #887 on: April 13, 2016, 12:00:54 PM »
Just posting in here because I can.


welcome to bellgab... a "cesspool of shit."

Re: 20130919 - Richard C. Hoagland - LADEE Lunar Mission
« Reply #888 on: April 14, 2016, 01:16:48 AM »

welcome to bellgab... a "cesspool of shit."

So to quote EODR "just like Florida?"